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Heard from a friend that Seminary teachers should be paid. I wouldn't be comfortable with that


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I've been substituting in my kids' seminary classes which have a 35 students - in the junior and senior seminary class.

Having grown up in UT, w/ released time - Seminary - taught by CES-hired instructors was an incredible blessing.

I wouldn't put such a change past President Nelson but it wouldn't change my desire to teach the Millenila Youth with no official adult supervision :)

My friend suggested: If one person gets paid for it, everyone shoudl get paid for it - even if it's 1/5th or 1/6th of what full time CES-trained and hired teachers earn. 

I see the logic in his suggestions but the Spirit still prompts me to teach - paid or volunteer.

Thoughts?

 

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14 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

I've been substituting in my kids' seminary classes which have a 35 students - in the junior and senior seminary class.

Having grown up in UT, w/ released time - Seminary - taught by CES-hired instructors was an incredible blessing.

I wouldn't put such a change past President Nelson but it wouldn't change my desire to teach the Millenila Youth with no official adult supervision :)

My friend suggested: If one person gets paid for it, everyone shoudl get paid for it - even if it's 1/5th or 1/6th of what full time CES-trained and hired teachers earn. 

I see the logic in his suggestions but the Spirit still prompts me to teach - paid or volunteer.

Thoughts?

 

I don’t have much of a good argument for this, but my view is that seminary teachers who are called to the position should NOT be paid. It’s a calling, not a job.

In areas where seminary teachers are paid are areas where there are high concentrations of potential seminary students. Perhaps managing non-Sunday teaching callings for 4,000 seminary students is impractical for voluntary positions hence why we have paid teachers here.

It also may just be a business like decision. Paying teachers in the Mormon Corridor has a far higher ROI than outside it.

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17 minutes ago, Fether said:

Perhaps managing non-Sunday teaching callings for 4,000 seminary students is impractical for voluntary positions hence why we have paid teachers here.

you're right. my friend's attempted logic is a false equivalency

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I'm kind of confused since I don't live in a state that needs seminary teachers to teach out of their homes or church every week day, and early morning. I believe they should be paid. That's not an ordinary calling in my mind, if it's daily like that. And the time to prepare. Or maybe I don't have that right information on how often they teach early morning seminary that's not connected to school buildings.

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1 hour ago, Lazarus 61 said:

I won't go so far as to say those teachers should be paid with money for teaching those students.  As an option, yes, but why should a teacher be paid money for that when he or she is willing and able to do it without receiving any money for it?

I also think the same principle should apply to every task or type of work.  Why give or pay with money when the person doing the work does not require it? 

Maybe everyone should be asked when asked to do something, would you require any money for doing that work, and if you would, how much?

How 'bout you wake up every morning on the week days for a whole school year and tell me how well you like it. 

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Seminary teacher is a difficult calling and very hard to fill in most stakes. I did it for several years. Getting up at 5am every morning all school year, daily prep, attendance/grades and monthly Saturday morning trainings was a lot. (On the weeks of the Saturday training it meant you did ‘church’ 7 days a week.)

This calling, done right, usually required 10 to 12 hours a week. 40 to 45 hours per month.

I have been an Elders Quorum President, part of a stake presidency and bishopric. Seminary teacher required more hours than any of these other callings, by a lot some times.

With that said it was still one of my favorite callings.

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5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

How 'bout you wake up every morning on the week days for a whole school year and tell me how well you like it. 

The seminary teacher calling is uniquely difficult. That said, attaching cash to a local calling seems fraught with complexities.

A salaried calling would convert it into employment and employment comes with expectations - eg: focusing on applicants who are objectively qualified. That's tough to do while divine inspiration is notorious for ignoring objective qualifications.

Conclusion: I can't see a path where this transition would be a positive one.

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3 hours ago, Fether said:

I don’t have much of a good argument for this, but my view is that seminary teachers who are called to the position should NOT be paid. It’s a calling, not a job.

In areas where seminary teachers are paid are areas where there are high concentrations of potential seminary students. Perhaps managing non-Sunday teaching callings for 4,000 seminary students is impractical for voluntary positions hence why we have paid teachers here.

It also may just be a business like decision. Paying teachers in the Mormon Corridor has a far higher ROI than outside it.

I don’t believe seminary is a calling.

It would be hard to make it worth paying seminary, since it’s only one hour a day. But I’m not against it. 

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6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don’t believe seminary is a calling.

I might be confused. Seminary teacher is a calling. Are you saying the position would be better served if it weren't a calling?

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It would be hard to make it worth paying seminary, since it’s only one hour a day. But I’m not against it. 

I have no principled stand one way or the other. I just suspect it would blow up in our face if we simply attached a salary.

Would salary+de-calling work? Not sure. Regional labor laws might force consideration of non-member hires (unqualified speculation here). I know parents who freaked out over the idea of non-member merit badge counselors. They'd overturn cars if their kids had a non-member seminary teacher.

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3 hours ago, Fether said:

I don’t have much of a good argument for this, but my view is that seminary teachers who are called to the position should NOT be paid. It’s a calling, not a job.

In areas where seminary teachers are paid are areas where there are high concentrations of potential seminary students. Perhaps managing non-Sunday teaching callings for 4,000 seminary students is impractical for voluntary positions hence why we have paid teachers here.

It also may just be a business like decision. Paying teachers in the Mormon Corridor has a far higher ROI than outside it.

ROI -- return on investment?  Howso?

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Why should early morning seminary teachers not get paid? Full time teachers do.  
Also, why did they stop paying Bishops and SPs? They should still get money for all of the time thy put in.

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3 hours ago, Lazarus 61 said:

I won't go so far as to say those teachers should be paid with money for teaching those students.  As an option, yes, but why should a teacher be paid money for that when he or she is willing and able to do it without receiving any money for it?

I also think the same principle should apply to every task or type of work.  Why give or pay with money when the person doing the work does not require it? 

Maybe everyone should be asked when asked to do something, would you require any money for doing that work, and if you would, how much?

My general response to anyone who asked me to do something and seemed to suggest they would only pay me if I need the money my response would be something like: “Do it yourself.”

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16 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

why did they stop paying Bishops and SPs?

I think paid service arose with practice of consecration, it may stand to reason that the demise of the two is linked.

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At the present time, full time seminary teachers who teach at seminary located in a state that grants hs credit for the class are paid (and because that requires teacher credentials for the state) and of course they should be paid.

Seminary that is taught by ward members, few of whom have professional teacher credentials, early morning or sometimes virtually  for an hour receive quite limited reimbursement of supplies and mileage.   I'm not sure whether a salary would help them teach better or not.  I do know that in this context, they are called by the stake.   Some of them would likely say that they would rather have the blessings of heaven than  $25/hr for the 4-5 hrs they spend a day including teaching, prep and travel.  And they would probably also say that not even paying them $100 an hour would be enough to fully compensate them in money terms.

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1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

ROI -- return on investment?  Howso?

Paying a teacher in Utah will have a larger affect on religious up bringing and spiritual growth than paying a teacher in Tell city Indiana. 

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5 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I wouldn't put such a change past President Nelson but it wouldn't change my desire to teach the Millenila Youth with no official adult supervision :)

...

Thoughts?

What stake do you live in? I'd love to share some of your posts on this board with your stake president.

By the way, according to section 15.1.1 of the Handbook, you should not be teaching seminary students with no other adult supervision.

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9 minutes ago, Fether said:

Paying a teacher in Utah will have a larger affect on religious up bringing and spiritual growth than paying a teacher in Tell city Indiana. 

I'm dense.  Is that because of so few students in Podunk City, Iowa?  Not cost effective?

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2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

What stake do you live in? I'd love to share some of your posts on this board with your stake president.

By the way, according to section 15.1.1 of the Handbook, you should not be teaching seminary students with no other adult supervision.

Come at me, bro

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

My general response to anyone who asked me to do something and seemed to suggest they would only pay me if I need the money my response would be something like: “Do it yourself.”

Sorry bruh but pretty sure you are / were a clerk for many years. I imagine you served in that calling for free, no?

We can't repay the Savior for the debt He paid for us, so...

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3 hours ago, 2BizE said:

hy did they stop paying Bishops and SPs?

Sorry - when were these paid positions? 

 

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1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Come at me, bro

With pleasure. At this point in my life, I have zero tolerance for people seeking to indoctrinate youth with their private fixations.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I'm dense.  Is that because of so few students in Podunk City, Iowa?  Not cost effective?

Yes. Assuming 1 teacher teaches 4 classes a day and each class has 30 students, that is 120 individual students that are being reached by a single paid teacher every day. Not to mentioned the compound benefit of being in a large class with discussion, 

Go to a small town in northern North Dakota where there are two students, now you have one teacher getting paid a wage to teach two students. Compound that with every single small ward / branch with 1-5 seminary age students and include those same area institute teachers you have a huge financial drain.

Additionally, there are enough  local congregations that wouldn’t be trusted to fulfill payroll requirements so the church would have handle those costs. Then the cost of other management, administration, and training that you see in the Mormon corridor.

Edited by Fether
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1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Sorry - when were these paid positions? 

 

There is a long history of this. Michael Quinn wrote about it as he had unrestricted access to church ledgers and other docs. I don’t know exact time frames but if I recall correctly; bishops received 8%!of their ward’s tithing and SPs got 2 or 3%. 
 

if I was to get 8% of my wards tithing I’d be rich. I’d have to be a bishop though and that is a solid “no way.”
 

 

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