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let’s roll

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  1. Three comment on the OP before the thread went down a rabbit hole. I enjoyed the article. I found it both well-reasoned and well written. The language is probably too esoteric for most but the the logic is compelling and thought-provoking.
  2. I guess we could spend time speculating about King Benjamin’s choice of words. Or we could work on becoming more meek, patient, humble and full of love. I’m opting for the latter.
  3. I get it...I suggested only a second tithe...we’re asked by the Savior to be willing to do much more than that. 😀 I’ve mentioned to you in a few posts how much I admire your sincerity and respect your resolve. I recall that I said in one post that your father was fortunate to have you as a son. I feel the same about your son, he’s fortunate to have you as a father. I reiterate my admiration and respect for you and in that spirit share with you this brief parable for your consideration. A certain man had 5 sons. They all played basketball. When the oldest was drafted, he bought his father a house to demonstrate his love and gratitude for all his father had done for him. The second son did the same. As did the third, and the fourth. When the fifth son was drafted he bought his father a house to demonstrate his love and gratitude for all his father had done for him. He was asked why he would buy a house for his father who had already been given four houses rather than for another relative or a needy family. The fifth son responded that he didn’t buy his father a home because his father needed a home but because he had the same love and gratitude for his father that his brothers had and wanted to demonstrate that love and gratitude in the same manner as his brothers. He said his father could do whatever he wanted with the house but that he, like all of his brothers, felt compelled to present the home to their father as a tangible symbol of their intangible love, honor and respect for him. Understanding the motivation of the fifth son’s gift to his father, do you need to know what the father did with each of the five houses in order to form an opinion regarding the wisdom of the fifth son’s gift? Godspeed to you CB, and to your son.
  4. Is anyone a good enough disciple? I know I am not and I feel no shame in acknowledging that, why would your son feel any shame. I trust we are both trying. Your son has told you he has questions that make him uncertain about what he should do. Why would inviting him to think about those questions in a different way to see if that approach provides him the certainty he seeks be perceived as shaming him? I thought the “exact problem” was his uncertainty.
  5. I didn’t miss the fact that he sees the Church’s balance sheet as problematic...my point was that a focus on discipleship might result in a change in perception and priorities...after all Jesus didn’t spend any time or effort trying to defund either the Roman Empire (render unto Caesar) or the orthodox church of His day. That said, we should all encourage stewards over funds, public and private, to discharge their stewardship in a thoughtful and conscientious manner
  6. Thank you for you thoughtful response. My invitation to focus on discipleship springs from personal experience, a lifetime of experiencing the inverse relationship between the quality of my discipleship and my propensity to be bogged down by things related to the Church and its leaders. On your son’s question, I find noteworthy the proportion of the Savior’s time spent on things spiritual compared to things temporal. Also noteworthy is the fact that Jesus was perfectly content having most of His temporal needs met via the generosity of others. Could your son, or I, find peace in tithing both the Church and a local charity of our choice, content to sustain ourselves on what remained?
  7. I would invite anyone struggling in the manner you describe to consider that earnestly seeking life eternal—to know God and the Christ—is a full time journey and leaves no time or energy, and dissipates the desire, to give thought to how others, inside or outside the Church, perceive us.
  8. Your daughter’s questions aren’t asked only by her generation. Many of us have asked those questions for years, I know I have. But having those questions has never made me question the Gospel as defined in scripture nor caused me to want to leave the Church. Loving all our brothers and sisters means seeking to understand, and viewing as God’s children, those modern day Pharisees among us who too often look only at our outward appearance and too seldom seek to understand our hearts. Jesus was prolific in his condemnation of those who elevated the law over the heart, yet we need to forgive and strive to love those of our brothers and sisters blinded by the law the same way we seek to have them forgive our weaknesses and strive to love us.
  9. While participating in General Conference a number of things were spoken to my mind and heart which are pure truth. I’m thankful that the prophet invited us to prepare ourselves to receive pure truth during General Conference via communion with Deity.
  10. Doubling down on your condescension. Sad. Perhaps you should allow our Pacific Islander brothers and sister to describe their identities and cultures, including the source of those identities and cultures rather than dictating that they were forced upon, or stolen from, them.
  11. My experience has been that a relatively few moments of true communion with Deity provide much more peace than an encyclopedia of verified truth claims. I have a doctorate degree and an IQ north of 140 but I’ve learned infinitely more in those moments of communion than I have with my “natural” abilities and scholarship.
  12. It seems very condescending to our Pacific Islander brothers and sisters to say they have any identity or culture other than the one they have freely chosen for themselves.
  13. If you accept the working assumption of some Bible scholar set out in the OP, all things are present to God covers the timing issue. On what basis do you conclude Jesus never uttered those words? Surely you don’t believe the original authors of the Gospels recorded all that Jesus said.
  14. A beautiful and thought provoking article.
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