Jay 4 Christ

I agree! I respect your answer. If Mormonism really believes that the priesthood, authority, ordinances and fullness of the Christian gospel isn't found within Christianity then just plainly say that like you are. I think more traditional Christians would respect Mormonism. I respect someone who's willing to own their beliefs, even if I disagree.

I appreciate the honesty!

Imagine there's a hospital that's been attempting to serve people for 2000 years without doctors, nurses, it's authority to perform surgeries. It's been robbed of all its crucial equipment, it's operating rooms, the pharmacy is shut down and it's ability to perform the very procedures that save lives. What's left? The building is standing, there's a few chairs and a few hospital beds and people sincerely come there looking for help but there's nothing in the building that can save them anymore. In my opinion that's how Mormons view Christianity. If I'm mistaken please tell me what you believe Christianity still has to offer people?

I think you actually just proved the point I've been trying to make. You're not arguing Mormonism is one branch of Christianity, you're saying the Christianity that has existed for 2,000 years has lost everything that originally made it Christianity including priesthood, authority, ordinances and the fullness of the gospel. So essentially everything that matters. So what does that leave? I guess in your opinion it leaves Mormonism as the only religion that actually has what he gave his original church. That's why I keep saying I don't understand why Mormons spend so much time saying "we're Christians too." Here's a short list of what I can remember Mormon theology saying Christianity has lost. Priesthood authority. Valid baptism. Saving ordinances. Fullness of gospel. Complete organization of Christ Church. Sealing power. Living prophets. And whatever Christianity still has Mormonism says it isn't meaningful enough to accomplish what ultimately matters most.

I think we're getting lost in definitions and overlookng the actual real issue. Let's go back to take a look at the person who started the thread. He isn't an atheist, he isn't mocking Christ, he isn't living in open rebellion against God. It seems to me he's a sincere Christian attempting to explain his loyalty to Christ and why he can't accept Mormonism. And according to Mormon theology, none of that is enough. No matter how much he loves Christ, or how faithful he is, Mormon theology and doctrine says he doesn't enter Spirit Paradise. He enters Prison, also called Hell. So I guess if you want we can debate whether Paradise is also some kind of temporary captivity or if prison has different meanings, either way, according to Mormon doctrine still places him in Spirit Prison not Paradise. Doesn't that tell us that Mormonism views Christianity itself is ultimately insufficient? Doesn't Mormonism teach that Christianity must be completed beyond itself? That's why I struggle when I hear Mormons say they are "Christians." Mormonism treats Christianity as something that has to be corrected or supplemented or I guess completed by Mormonism before it can become what God intentions the true Christianity to be. Can't speak for the gentleman that started the thread but for me Mormonism places Christianity beneath the "restored gospel."

No, it's not. Here's the church's definition of hell. Hell https://share.google/Dmabw0hH7giEJ2xKG Your subdivision of spirit prison into "not that bad" and "hell" isn't supported by church doctrine.

Haven't posted here in about 6 months because I've spent a time digging into LDS history and doctrine. One of the big reasons I can't become a member of the Mormon church is it's teaching that those who die without accepting the gospel don't go directly to spirit paradise. As I understand, spirit prison is hell and I along with all Christians will go there. If I don't accept the restored gospel I'll remain in hell for thousands of years.

I've been reading Mormon books and listening to a lot of talks that I've watched, and your definition of Mormon theology is exactly what I've heard. Given that Mormon doctrine states otherwise, why do so many people on this discussion board seem to want to persuade me that Mormons and Christians are on an equal footing? The doctrine makes it very clear that Christians are literally "playing church" if the Mormon church has all of God's authority while all Christian churches do not. I want to know if Mormons genuinely think that their church is the only one with genuine religious authority from God. I'm asking the Mormons this question. Apart from the Mormon faith, is there another Christian church that possesses 1% of God's authority?

No, we won't all be in his church, based on what I've learned about Mormon doctrine. Only those who have embraced the Mormon faith. Mormon doctrine contradicts what you're saying, so why are Mormons trying to include everyone? Are Baptist in Christ church once he returns? The Mormon religion I've studied is saying no.

I'm still watching the video, and I have to admit that the way this guy instructs the audience, seems to be an attempt to turn thee youth into narcissists! The lesson he is that while Mormons have everything in terms of the gospel, other religions are making do with what's left over, the scraps. The lesson is that if you leave the church, you will not only have nothing but also find it difficult to be happy. I appreciate you suggesting this talk. Later on, I'll start a thread in the other forum about it.

I'm researching the Mormon church, can you give me a link to the church's general authority's statement that everyone else is "playing" church? I can understand why the Mormon church feels that all other churches are merely "playing" church if they believe that no other church has divine authority.

I understand your concern, I want to push back a little. You're saying it's ok for a faith community to have it's own inside definitions and not applied globally. I actually agree with that. Happens in every religion. Problem is that Mormonism doesn't keep it's "definitions" inside the group. LDS explicitly believe the gospel is universally binding. That's a foundational belief isn't it? Same with salvation. LDS theology doesn't merely say "we define salvation differently for ourselves." Doesn't it teach no onee can return to God's presence without accepting the restored gospel, whether it is in this life or in spirit world? This is a global claim that applies to Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Buddhist, Atheist s, really everyone. LDS interpret the fate of all humanity through uniquely LDS categories and in my opinion not Christian categories. I'm not saying this makes Mormonism uniquely evil or dishonest because many religions make universal truth claims. But shouldn't we at least be honest about what is happening? You cannot say "your definitions are internal" and insist that everyone everywhere ultimately must conform to those definitions to reach God.

Thanks! I did research on this sentence. Feel free to critique. LDS believe Christ absolutely saves from physical death. Resurrection is unconditional. Christ is 100% responsible. But spiritual salvation works differently in Mormonism? That part Christ isn't responsible for, the individual is responsible for actually achieving it through obedience and ordinances. That's how a cousin explained it to me. That's why idea like "after all we can do" matter so much in LDS. I'm understanding LDS not just trusting in Christ alone, you actively are responsible for your own spiritual salvation. Am I understanding salvation according to LDS? Christianity believes Christ carries the final responsibility. LDS believe complete salvation is a shared responsibility. This is how my family explained it.

I have a question and hope it is okay to ask it here. My family, they always tell me that Mormons are not Christians. They say this very strongly, ike it is not a discussion subject. Because of this I started to research why Mormons say they are Christians and now I am confused more than before. I see Jesus Christ everywhere in the Mormon language, then I see people saying no that does not count, so I am trying to understand who is deciding this and based on the rules, there a checklist? I am not asking this to attack anyone I am honestly trying to learn and also to survive family dinners. So, why do Mormons consider themselves Christian? Thank you for your patience with a learner.