Notatbm

I didnt ask for a statement proving executions. I asked for one where the church leadership said to not take the penalties seriously... dont make up stuff I didnt say. You really enjoy lying about what I say here. You do it all the time. You mister are a liar yourself. As for romney making that covenant with the throat slitting penalty?? He sure did and Holland eventually said he did.

Is it the temple endowment verbatim? Holland himself said there are no penalties and my post does have a penalty. Anyone sitting in an endowment right now at this moment is not going to hear what I posted....there are no penalties etc. Must be fake

If it wasnt real CFR for First Presidency statement Pre 1990 that states none of the penalties in the temple are to be taken seriously and are fake....good luck "You are aware this wasn't a friendly chat, it was a confrontational interview described as an ambush. In that high-pressure environment, if someone asks you, "Do you have a policy of execution?", you get to say "No" and you are telling the truth." Of course I know it wasnt a friendly chat. Holland knew that as well. He just got outsmarted and Jesus didnt bail him out. His first instinct was to lie and that is exactly what he did. "The "penalties" never existed in any legal or physical reality or time." Again CFR for First Presidency Statement pre-1990 that the penalties are fake. It would be real nice if you could find a temple prep class manual that says that. "If you really care about leading people to believe something that is not true, then you should care more about what Mormon Stories is getting sued for." I dont really care if Mormon Stories is getting sued, I just think its a dumb lawsuit. Mormon church fighting to keep its identity with satan lol. Bunch of dingdongs. Their effort in this just shows that Mormonstories is a threat. This comment on a reddit post is pretty spot on about what happened and how Holland should have handled it: "The appropriate communication practice would be to assume charity on the misunderstanding of people's semantics and seek to understand what they are asking, then respond to it. By intentionally catching someone's question in a technicality of how they worded something that they arguably are ignorant of, is poor communication. In this context, Holland knew that Sweeney likely didn't have a full understanding of the temple ordinances past and present and really had no way to understand it as fully as Holland should. But the general understanding of what Sweeney was asking was clear. It wasn't a technical question, it was a loose question coming from partial ignorance, (which sweeney admits by saying that it's "I've been told...") which is asking for clarification and/or confirmation. The only fair thing for Holland to do was to have intellectual charity for any miswording on Sweeney's part and to answer the obvious question. There isn't a person alive that knows about the history of the LDS endowment and the penalties that doesn't intuitively know that the REAL answer to Sweeney's question is that YES, ROMNEY SWORE AN OATH TO THAT EFFECT. Period. That's the only honest answer. Anything not the honest answer is by default a lie or obfuscation."

nobody attributed any statement to Romney and neither did I. The reporter asked about the penalty Romney likely would have covenanted to and holland answered by denying by saying there are no penalties in the temple now. Holland answered a question that was not even asked.

Not verbatim temple quote where there is no penalty: …even at the peril of your life, … http://www.ldsendowment.org/images/spacer.gif http://www.ldsendowment.org/images/spacer.gif You can make all the excuses for Holland you want. He said what he said to an audience and didnt explain any nuances. He said double digit stake growth every week of our lives 2015: 3,174 stakes 2016: 3,266 stakes 2017: 3,341 stakes Net stake growth 92 stakes in 2016....that is a far cry from double digit stake growth every week. Perhaps Holland should have learned to just shut up sometimes. He loved to be the center of attention. Like I mentioned previously, my family has hosted him on our home numerous times while I was growing up. He always ran his mouth like this. People loved hearing him talk and I admit he is charismatic and all, but yea an apostle should know when to just keep some things to himself. This clip from africa he makes three different moronic statements to the audience in less than 4 minutes. Prime example of how he was in private too. Couldn't stop running his mouth:

Sounds like sweeney had a better understanding of what went on in the temple than I did when I went through the first time. Also he never said "literally." That is a way to weasel out of it if someone wants to lie....oh yea he didntt word it exactly right so i just BS this dude and its cool. Nope it is a lie, Sweeney asked about when romney went through, not what is going on post 1990. Also I had a clear understanding of that the throat slit thing was even though I just agreed to have my life taken and they didnt say it word for word. everyone knows that that gesture means. If sweeney didnt follow up holland would have let that one lie where it was...leaving the questioner with a distorted view of reality is still lying according to the church definition of lying. "We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest. The Lord is not pleased with such dishonesty," https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-31-honesty?lang=eng Jeff is a liar...he should have just said "we dont talk about what goes on in the temple in public" just like we did to our own members back then. He would have been fine, but no he had to spar with this reporter and he lost big time. At the 2 min mark. Everyone knows that that means, nothing needs to be said

Holland was asked about when Romney went through, not what is currently the ordinance. Holland tried slipping it by Sweeney hoping he had not done his research. Holland lied and got caught. Jesus wasn’t helping him out any that day.

The first response from holland was the lie. He knows darn well there were penalties when Romney went through he and mitt are only seven years apart in age. That was his answer and he knew what the reporter was asking. He only explained it because the reporter pressed him and showed him he knew the answer was bs. Heck the church didn’t even explain the process to its own members who were going through the first time much less tell it to all to the world. I never was told jack squat till I went through and that was with temple prep class. I got totally ambushed in there not unlike pretty much everyone else I know who went through at the time. I just watched the video again.. he def lied. The transcript doesn’t do it justice. His buddy lied about the scmc too lol these guys. as for the double digit stake creation… double digits is at least 10. Multiply X 52 weeks is 520 and that wasn’t even close to happening. He lied. You posted an article where someone else explains it… the author explains that already that year the church had created 27 new stakes… that’s in four months which averages 1.6 ish per week. Holland needs (ed) to learn to keep his mouth shut. He has been an apostle long enough to know everything he says gets analyzed. Why say something that definitely isn’t true.

The double digit stakes comment was definitely not true… and he was in a position to know the exact numbers so yes he is a liar. also the bbc interview he lied about Romney and the temple penalties.

I’m pretty sure bill reel was ex’d over his public calling out of holland for lying. So yea the q15 had a problem with it.

Pres oaks has stated very plainly that leaders in the church are not to be criticized… even if the criticism is true, but you knew that already. has nothing to do with the trademark thing other than the leaders are ok with not acting Christlike ( aka giving Satan a victory).. just depends on who is doing it and it is NEVER them.

Olive branch? Since when have we been sparring about anything? I guess if in your mind you need to seek out peace with me perhaps you are the one with the problem. Persecution complex much? sorry but I don’t see where you and I needed to make any kind of peace. There was no contention.

Sure, but the discussion is about the word "Mormon." Church leaders lying to the world and its members is also a major victory for satan, but we cant criticize them for that... well good mormons cant.

You cant possibly believe the church cannot afford to police up the web of all the people using their precious "mormon" victory for the Devil. The church has a few hundred billion dollars that are used to pay off child molest victims, buy hundred million $$ resorts, high end houseing developments etc. Why not put the money to work for something Jesus would do and that is use lawyers to chase down everyone on the web not representative of the church who use the term "mormon" somewhere in their name...or uses the same color of blue? I have an idea.....Missionaries can do it or better yet make it a calling for some tech dude in a ward to dedicate ten hours a week looking for people and orgs to for the church to sue? He/she can use fake names and social media accounts to infiltrate anti-mormon sites and orgs. I mean it isnt like the church has not done that before.

I'm much more clear on my stance than the church is on whether or not they want to be on satan's side or Jesus'. It is only confusing because the church does not believe in informed consent. . One only has to listen to a few episodes to see that he isnt lying, making stuff up etc. Has real guests who use real names etc to share their experiences in the church both good and bad. I can use just one of many examples in my life...first time through temple. I went to temple prep and learned nothing. My first time through was a 100% ambush. I hated it and I only went back through when I could not get out of it. The church has created the informed consent monster all on its own. Instead of owning it, they sick lawyers on people who expose it. The history can be included in the missionary discussions. How can they possibly dunk an investigator after just a few discussions if they have to spend all this time teaching the craziness in the church? That is an oft used excuse why the down and dirty cant be taught to our own lifelong members...not enough time with it being taken up with CFM or some other program. A church rep has admitted the essays were slow rolled in order to... Ill let him explain: https://www.Mormon*******.***/elder-steven-e-snow-lds-gospel-topics-essays-not-advertisex/#:~:text=BONUS: Elder Steven E.,share them with your friends.