Notatbm

Here is a list of us army chaplain branch insignia. There are several. I have only ever seen a cross and a Torah. Others are listed but no moroni https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_branch_insignia

We r talking about 18-19 year olds and their (well maybe it isnt their decision) decision as to whether or not they will serve a mission...not little children. We r talking about Mormon 18 yar old adults disobeying mormon parents and mormon prophets about serving mormon missions, not some part mormon/part nevermo household. The church and its missionaries sets up dual faith families like yours and they are suprised there is a problem for the opposite reason when it comes to missions? The point is mormon parents and mormon leaders infantilize mormon ADULT children and dictate mandatory missions to them....in some cases such as my own family...and many others I know. Its not whiney, its called parents not letting your kids make their own life decisions as adults and then being regarded as "dishonorably excused" by the church if they dont go. I'll refresh your memory: "If young men are not able to serve because of poor health or a disability, they are honorably excused.” Again Im talking about adults here not little kids, but you know that. Service wasnt expected in my family, it was actively discouraged. And ohhh boy are they some serious stars and stripes wavers too. I had a Platoon Leader once who was sitting with us Joes eating our MREs during a break in training at JOTC.. someone asked him why he joined the Army. He flat out told us it was a family expectation and his whole family (males) had all gone to VMI and then the Army. Said he was doing his six years and getting out for good. One of the Joes asked if he even wanted to be in the Army and he said no way might as well have been drafted. My PSG got up and told the LT to come with him right now. He walked him about 25 yds in the Jungle and yelled at him for being a failure as a leader and was gonna do his best to get him relieved, not because he was a bad person, but because he just lost the trust of his Soldiers and didnt belong as a PL. He got relieved. But hey he did what his parents said. Same can be said for forcing kids to go on missions. Some just dont belong and shouldnt be forced. So not going on a mission is "self-destructive behaviour." tell us how you really feel...about your own kids who didnt go on missions. Did they destroy themselves? My kids went on missions and I didnt want them to. You know what I told them...? Do what you want and whatever it is do a good job. I'll even pay for it if you go. If you dont no worries. I really didnt want to drop $10K + on a mission but hey I'm not gonna force one on an 18 year old or bash him if he doesnt go. They knew I wasnt on board with missions and they knew how my parents were cuz I told them. They also knew I wasnt gonna go crazy if they didnt go. There is no way I was going to consider their decision to be "Self-Desructive" if they didnt go on one. Grew up in the morridor. Father was Stake Pres for ten years at the point I bailed on a mission. Back in those days the traveling apostles and seventies would stay with local families when they came for stake conferences etc. My family knew enough of them from having lots of connections in Bountiful that lots of them would visit even if it wasnt for something in our stake and they would stay with us for a few days and eat my mom's awesome cooking. Packer, Featherstone, McKonkie, Hunter, Holland, Ballard, Benson, Peterson, Richards, Hinkley, and liar liar Dunn to name the more well-known ones. Yep fam is/was friends with most at the time and I've met em all. Stake Presidents used to be somebody back then... nowadays they are just basic errand boys since theres too many of them. Anyway- them and their extended family friends connections were my parents's connections and social circle. So extreme hardliners. That's who my parents not only wanted to emulate, but also impress probably. Having a kid not go on a mission in that crowd was extremely humiliating. Agreed, but he doesnt qualify it. Just says it is a dumb question. people who talk like that are dumb. Have you heard some of his other talks??? Man that is one arrogant guy. He's is the same one that quantifies and measures a missionarys service with a specific number of full tithepayers brought on-board of all things. A real gem that guy is. The same god that is picking Bishops who then molest children. What are we up to now??? 150 plus documented victims of child abuse at the hands of mormon bishops... The same god that doesn't spare a little child from being beaten or molested but helps BYU coed McKayleigh McKinzie find her keys in the BYU parking lot...no thanks. Since I dont want you to turn into a pillar of salt, here is the transcript of the statement from the stake presidency counselor ON VIDEO. "33 seconds the tape a little tangent here real quick we were recently as a family having a discussion about missionary work one of my daughters was at school she was talking with her friends about president nelson's recent call for young men to serve missions and the friends there at the lunch table were debating do young men have to go or is it a choice now young man i hope you'll think about this carefully because there's an important doctrine here do you have a choice whether to serve a mission? i'm gonna tell you why you don't nowthat might rub you the wrong way because we're so big into liberty and agency and and we do believe we're a free democratic kind of people right but here's why you don't have the choice anymore is because when you were baptized you signed on to the lord's plan which is giving up free agency and accepting moral agency...

Watch the video clip of the stake presidency counselor and what he has to say. Not dehlin

Yep you werent there and the notion I did it without "leaving space" for my partners ideology is a wierd thing to say. That said all I did was make a point that whatever we were talking ( i think it was finding a good wife ) about at the time wasnt dependent upon their serving a mission or not. They were not obligated to serve a mission. My teacher partner was making it sound like they had to...IE when you go, when you get back, after you, etc. No room for any if at all. And I did it tactfully, not with anger, or blind rage or bitterness. Kids need to know they actually have a choice whether their leaders or parents will admit it or not. Had I known they wanted me to be just another pressure cooker in the ward for launching kids on missions I would have turned down the calling.

I’m open to correction but I think Sunni and Shia Muslims are pretty much on-board with killing each other if the situation dictates.

Many parents and leaders feel they have to control every aspect of your life. If you nope in a mission and take off .. well there goes any chance of you following orders. They can’t rely on obedience if you give them and the prophet the middle finger. How embarrassing your kid act like an adult and make his own choices… so sad for you it must be humiliating to have a wayward child. I should add that even as recently as 10 years ago when I first got put in the as a priest quorum advisor in our ward. within the first couple weeks I was in the calling, we had a class discussion where the other advisor was telling the kids about something or other, and mentioning the fact that after they get back from their mission, blah blah blah blah whatever. I don’t recall the topic exactly but essentially it boiled down to you have to go on a mission. I chimed in and said well that’s if you decide to go on a mission missions aren’t for everybody, etc. anyway by the end of the evening I was released for my calling. I’m not sure who dimed me out the other counselor or one of the kids, but the decision was made to release me because I wasn’t on board with making sure every young man serves a mission. That is in the ward I’m in right now. This was only 10 years ago. So yeah, that kind of culture is still around contrary to what others may think.

Nehor is talking g about standing up to pressure from church leaders and parents. Kids are forever taught to always obey their parents. To always obey church leaders even if they are wrong. Saying no to a mission in many households and wards is next to anarchy. The church is built on controlling many aspects of members lives such as what they drink, what they wear, who their friends are, what they do on Sunday, how much to pay the church, never say no to a calling, marry an rm, what underwear to wear, go on a mission, get married as soon as possible… you get the point. when a kid d can’t be controlled and they stray from “ the covenant path” SOME PARENTS AND LEADERS flip out. if the kids end up not going on a mission sometimes the parents are judged by their fellow ward members and local leaders… obviously they didn’t reward scriptures together as a family, obviously they didn’t have fhe, they don’t do food storage so disobeying the prophet there leads to disobeying everywhere, they didn’t force their kids to go to seminary… etc. every ward and stake has their power families… you know the same ten families that do everything. They are the same ones who if there is gonna be a freak out over lack of mission… it will be in their home most of the time. they listen to idiot leaders and their over the top council like these two guys:

Oh yea.. I laughed too. Thing is a full bird calling people f-ing Mormons in front of a pretty large audience is actually pretty bold. Say same thing about another “protected” class even back then (~2008 ish)is a career ender for sure. No one cared when it was Mormons tho.

Partially yea that is a thing no matter where you are. Heres is a better example: I'm in a planning meeting re potentially sending some teams to a multi-national training event that was a couple months long. This was not being hosted in a Muslim country so alcohol was not illegal. One of the first things that comes up is the entire time they will be there they will not be permitted to drink. Not at all. Thats a big deal because these events in foreign countries often involve several social events that in the states we would call "mixers." Some Gen somewhere was afraid of an incident so put ou t the order no drinking at all. So the Col In charge of the discussion says "too bad we dont have about 50 f-ing mormons we can send to this, sounds like an f-ing sunday school class." He said that in front of no less than 30 people mostly field grades and SNCOs. A couple of them were mormon and he knew it. Didnt give a rats butt they were sitting right there. Whole room laughed...yea no respect.

In your experience in the National Guard in the MI community may be a little bit more skewed towards favorability for Mormons. That being because of the language capability in the higher population of Mormons in the unit, especially since it’s based in Utah or at least that’s what I believe. In a unit like that being Mormon wouldn’t be a bad thing probably be a positive thing and there’s tons of em around so in that very instance perhaps there would be a bit of cachet for Mormons so to speak. I spent my career in combat arms, and the number of Mormons that were in any one unit I was ever in literally amounted to a rounding error and so the only time Mormon anything came up is if some Mormon person made some kind of a statement or whatever other than that they weren’t really talked about except in joking about Mormons. And that happened kind of regular if religious discussions popped up.

Agreed 100%. Problem is there are parents out there who are psycho hardliners who will have nothing but 100% obedience… no matter the cost. I know tons of them because those types are who my parents were friends with. Temple presidents, regional reps ( now area authority) other stake presidents… apostles and seventies. It’s a whole different world out there when those people are your social circle. they are the types who will absolutely go crazy on a kid for not serving a mission.

Sure he could have. Wouldn’t have worked out too well. As they are family friend s we know them well, mom and dad threatened to disown him and kick him out if he didn’t go. Their word is good as gold as they had already done it before. he went and came back and left the church. Family didn’t disown him. They get humiliated waaay to easily. No the parents need to grow up and quit being hardliner control freaks. No wonder my family like them they are peas in a pod. He was 19 and they were in their fifties. It is on them to act the adult. It is said all too often and is true the missionaries are just kids. Why be surprised when they act like one? the fact he didn’t get disowned means he is prob still in line to inherit a ton of $$. He doesn’t need it as he has been very successful on his own. We will see. I still have contact with his older brothers and he is still on good terms.

Cachet (pronounced /kæˈʃeɪ/) is a noun that generally refers to a mark or quality of distinction, prestige, or an official seal of approval. It implies an aura of high status or exclusivity that makes something or someone highly respected and admired.

No worries.. grew up in 80s. Pressure on all the guys was significant and the girls were taught buyer beware if you don’t marry an rm. Just a couple years ago a stake pres member got on video at a tri stake conference and point blank told the young men they don’t have a choice about mission service. Also Kevin Pearson is also on tape essentially saying the same thing.. esp with Pearson this has to be coming from salt lake so the pressure and shaming is still coming from church leaders. Maybe it’s just Utah, Idaho and Az. I dunno. you will like this one… in one of our family wards we had a farewell of a young man from a big time Mormon family. He gets up to give his talk (he went first ) and he just got to to podium and then turned around and pointed at his parents who were both going to speak as well. He said (paraphrased) I don’t want to go, they are making me and I don’t have a choice. See y’all in two years. He then just sat down and the bishop closed the meeting. Stake presidency was on the stand as well. People were like oh yea they aren’t gonna let him go now with that terrible attitude… they were basically trashing the kid. No one thought it odd to put a full court press on a kid to go on a mission. So whatever it takes. . well he went the kid went and served two years and when he got home he left the church. Family thought they were such hard asses making him go. They bragged on it a bit. He got the last laugh. This was about 30 years ago so yea things are different I guess. hopefully they let kids go do peace corps stuff, or school or whatever. Let them do what they want. Missions are such a waste anymore.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here? Thanks, -Smac Elaborate on which part?

What is it with Mortar guys always having shortages? Beating each other up off duty?? Ha. I was 11B and the points were always 99Never.. I got lucky when I boarded for E5 Desert shield was underway (I was overseas elsewhere) so the army was short like 10K E5s. I got promoted in secondary zone. We were so short people as everyone PCSing got sent straight back to the 82nd to go be trench clearing fodder or so went the theory. We didnt get any new privates till the ground war was over and Benning sent them all to our BN and others. We were down to 15 person platoons from original strength of over 40. I think our BN dwindled from 600 pax to less than 300. I think if we combined we could only deploy two full strength companies and HHC mortar/med/en/recon/ and 90mmRCL teams. Prop blast details from a civilian observer: https://www.danielsanthropology.com/papers/82nd/82ndairborneinitiations.html your story is pretty funny btw...Id have ripped that thing off too. 13F surprisingly (at least last I recall) are assigned to their respective Arty BAttery and only go out with the inf for training/deployment. I was in two seperate ABN INF BNs and we had organic 13F with us and also AF TACP. No one knew their jobs so I dotn know how they got along without any mentorship. They were really squared away so perhaps that is how they got selected to go there.

I was at benning. In 13 weeks I was able to go twice. The routine was the same except we actually had lds services. There were like five of us the first time… maybe ten the second. That was the service for our bct brigade so about ten trainees out of guess 3000 or so??

“But as he prays about serving a mission, he should also remember that by receiving the priesthood, he has already accepted the sacred responsibility to “warn, expound, exhort, and teach, and invite all to come unto Christ” (D&C 20:59), including by serving as a full-time missionary. If young men are not able to serve because of poor health or a disability, they are honorably excused.” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2012/01/to-the-point/why-is-there-so-much-pressure-on-young-men-to-go-on-a-mission-isnt-it-a-personal-decision?lang=eng Looks like poor health or disability is the ONLY accepted reason to not serve a full time mission. that tells me all other reasons to not serve a mission are by default “dishonorable.” You should remember these old dudes were not required or encouraged to go because we had a war going on. After what late ‘70s it became a commandment of sorts for all young men to serve a mission. Oaks et al are exempted.

I bet telling the board you are MOH material because you were Mormon would have resulted in a dq and the most brutal smoke session of your life. I suppose the kind of infantry unit you were in vs the kind I was in made it possible for you to even think you could say such a thing. That would never ever cross my mind to place myself in the same category as an MOH recipient. And don’t know about you but I’ve been in combat a few times and as bad as it was I can’t imagine it being that bad and I took a trip on a litter bird to the states over my last combat encounter. So did they promote you? Even though you are Mormon? I’ve never heard of such a thing being said in a promotion board but I believe it. Like I said Mormons have zero cachet in the army. The units I was in had prop blast for officers. Legalized hazing with tons of pt and alcohol. I understand they removed the alcohol component years ago over a death but anyway… yea it’s a bit uncomfy for Mormons there. i never really ran into a problem after infantry school because I sanitized my tags at ranger joes on Bragg blvd… they said NO PREF or some such thing till i went to my commissioning source several years later.

Ur prob right. Didn’t help them from claiming Mormons aren’t Christian’s. They can just say their pastor told them so. Defer to leaders just like many Mormons do.

Uhhh yea. Dont be a idiot. It is a figure of speech. Anyway in the name of the church...."day" is supposed to be a little d not a big D. To some it is a huge deal. Oddly enough the church uses both on its own website.

oh boy what a relief the list was fixed....now we can fix bayonets and get them to fix the big "D" problem. I swear does anyone care about the style guide??

So these are all people who chose to ditch a mission and go military? Hmm ok good for them and I'm glad they are celebrated I suppose. I'm frankly suprised a stake would honor people who chose to disobey the lord and shirk their priesthood duty. Yea I don't see it happening here but hey you never know.

ok... like i said its a guess. Thanks for clearing that up

Yea I have seen that before too. Usually it was people doing simultaneous service ie military, leave of absence, mission, come back to military usually reservists and guard, not active duty. In fact that is all of the cases I have seen before. Typically it is where the guy had to wait till he was 19 to serve a mission so went to boot camp while he was 18. With the age change I bet that activity has tapered off quite a bit. Not the same as blowing off a mission completely. I'm in Gilbert az and have never seen that here other than missionary plaques. In fact in the nearly ten years I have been in this ward (im in the stake canter when i did attend) we have had zero enlistees into the military other than one girl who is a lesbian...thats what her parent who is a friend of ours said. Anyway not here to debate whether the church approves of ditching a mission or not. We all know the church absolutely does not approve. Is the stake pres where you are at smart for allowing them to put pictures up of military members who refuse to serve a mission?? Sure I suppose. Not sure what good it does if the military member isnt around to see it, but at least they probably know it is there and that we don't completely hate you for being a disobedient soul. Of course they can also go on a mission and have like what?? a 40-50% chance of leaving the church anyway... Yea the stake im in now, others I have been in and the one I grew up in def would never do that. In my family wards I was in while on active duty they didn't do that. Maybe with new stake pres they would. I suppose we'd have to get kids to join up first so we can find out. Prob have to wait a while around here for that.