Notatbm

Done- thanks for the info

Seems like that’s the only way it may be happening anymore if at all. I prefer to consider people’s experiences that occur when they are lucid, not when they are having a nap. I’ve had some pretty wild dreams over the years and every single one of them are fake. Just the mind thinking about what it wants to while it is entertaining itself during your nap.

Ok good for you. If you don’t care what my opinion is then quit engaging with me.

You gotta be kidding with these guys lol… did u read their accounts? Ballard and Whitney both stated it was a dream while they were sleeping and haight was unconscious for several days after a surgery. So basically they were all dreaming. sounds like the witnesses to the gold plates and seeing the plates with their spiritual eyes. ive had dreams I got a hookup with some woman on a few different occasions. Doesn’t mean it happened although I wish it had. Same with these guys.. dreams lol do you believe everyone’s dreams are true happenings or just Mormon leaders? i suppose they believe it maybe, but as for me saying you dreamed it qualifies it as a nice story and all but likelihood it happened is pretty much nil.

Read the quote. He is using the words of cannons testimony, not his own. Is he not enough of a big boy to speak for himself?

I don’t identify as Mormon, I identify as exMormon. Problem is pyreux himself on this forum has said I have no right to call myself as exMormon until I either resign or get excommunicated. The church itself owns me according to him. Sorry but I get to criticize as a Mormon I guess.

Not from a Mormon prophet no. Too many lies or supporting brethren who have lied. We hold cops to a higher standard of honesty than we do for prophets. That’s backwards.

sure I do Possibly, but our own prophets are scared to say it publicly and they are afraid to engage with the public other than in church setting g where they are not challenged. Last time this happened, (holland / Hinkley) with reporters they got caught in lies. They can’t handle pressure which is why they are isolated and make such wish washy statements.

Well I’m getting people stating all kinds of prophets and apostles since Lorenzo snow have been saying they have actually seen Jesus. So far we have two heresay accounts and the rest are the standard “ I know Jesus lives.” None so far have straight up said they saw Jesus in person nor have I ever heard of or seen prophet stating such. As for accepting a claim?? I’m far more open to it if they just say they have as opposed to making a huge word salad statement dancing around actually making such a statement. The way they do this is just manipulation and some people fall for that kind of talk. Usually when people dance around with wordy explanations without just being forthright they are just lying. Sounds just like a suspect in an interrogation desperately trying to sell an alibi to an fbi agent.

I’m not seeing anywhere where swk stated HE saw Jesus. He is stating what George q cannon said. im not sure im ready to believe a guy who also taught in conference that Navajos turn white when they become righteous. Anyone who talks like that is clearly a nutjob.

Cfr for statements of kimball (from him) that he has seen Jesus in person. no I didn’t know, you were the one who made the claim and I don’t think it is quite true. So far we don’t have a direct statement from kimball himself unless someone wants to cough one up.

So the statement you provide is actually heresay. Kimball had all the pulpit time in front of the entire world anyone could ever want yet he still didn’t say it.

I have, I just don’t talk about it…. Too sacred

Not if they are a leader in an organization that has a truth problem. I was taught not to trust people in business or whatever who are not honest. Mormons have lots of teachings about honesty out there so you would figure it would be important to have integrity. Why should that change for a religious leader who supports an organization with known and provable problems with honesty and may have issues with it himself?

It would at least make them speak directly to it in terms of stating it frankly. Right now all we have are statements that just sound like they may have but they don’t just say it. Im not aware that there is any prohibition from them just saying so except maybe they don’t want to lie.

Of all these guys you listed only Joseph f smith claimed to have seen Jesus.. many times. He also lied under testimony at the reed smoot hearings. cfr for statements these other guys have personally seen Jesus. All I could find was the same old feelings stories. Or “I know….” Without saying how they know like for example…. He appeared to me or something like that. Js wasn’t afraid to say it.

So none of them actually state they have seen Jesus in person? Why does that convince you they all have? Why do they not just say they have instead of using evasive language.? . it like yes we can’t talk about it or say we have, but we will lead you to believe we actually have seen Jesus. Seems like they are constructively disobeying whoever is telling them not to talk about it because it is “too spiritual “ or whatever.

I think the last guy to publicly say he has seen Jesus was Lorenzo snow. he is a documented liar under oath in the Temple Lot case. so in his case I wouldn’t believe he saw Jesus in person. the better question to ask is since Lorenzo snows time, how come none (as far as I know) of the Mormon prophets have proclaimed to have seen Jesus in person. They word smith statements to make it seem like they have but fall short of actually saying so. Jeff holland and Gordon Hinkley both lied in live interviews with reporters about easily provable information. I wouldn’t believe them if the saw Jesus. im confident none of them have actually seen Jesus.

They don’t say it because they have not seen him. There are many things church leaders have lied about in the past, but I believe they at least have enough integrity to not go down that road. Many like to say it’s too sacred to talk about if they had, but that didn’t stop Joseph smith from saying so about allegedly the most arguably sacred “appearance “ of Jesus to anyone in recorded history. … or was it Heavenly Father himself??? Or both of them? I dont recall and neither did Joseph smith apparently.

Can you show me where in Mormon doctrine , lesson manuals or whatever where the height of steeples on temples is important is taught? I’m willing to change my opinion but I was married in mesa temple and it doesn’t even have a steeples the idea it is neccessary and needs to be tall is total bs and a completely made up argument by the church.

They (the area authorities) thought it out enough to publish letters to all the stakes in their area of responsibility and sending it to all members with instructions on what to say. since two plus maybe more area authorities were involved, those letters were sent out likely at the direction of the 1st presidency they lied about the importance of the giant steeple they wanted.

Not a transcript but two separate letters that went out from the church area authorities (so basically the 1st presidency since they put it on church letterhead and sent to multiple areas) to encourage members to send in letters to the fairview city council as a show of support for the temple. One of the items they asked to be included in correspondence was the importance of the steeple to worship in the mormon temple. As if that is even a thing.

Ok/yea that is the discussion. in your entire life in the church have you ever been taught anything about the importance of having a steeple on a temple much less anything about the height of it or whether there is even a steeple at all? Answer is definitely no. This guy is selling it to the city council as it being important thus necessary for Mormons free practice of religion. We all know that’s not true therefore it is a lie. He is a lawyer representing the church therefore he is lying to the city council on behalf of the prophet.

He was arguing it for this temple. That was what about 98% of this fiasco was about. The church took the position the steeple had to be the height they are demanding be accepted. It was pitched as a religious belief which it isn’t for Mormons… so he is lying

That’s the point. Church steeple height is important. Is what he argues. Nowhere in our doctrine does it say that. He is lying. one min mark