Notatbm

I had either watched or listened to an interview several years ago where a participant at byu described his experiences and specifically stated gay porn pics were used. I don’t recall his name, but this discussion led me to search specifically for evidence of that. The McBride paper is the first one I have ever read and frankly I’m shocked temple recommend holders couldn’t find any better topic of research to do and went to this level. They should be embarrassed. i have read a couple fair articles about it and they were fairly detailed I guess. This link I am posting below specifically described porn was used by McBride, but somehow whatever team collaborated on the article all missed the fact nude images of adolescents were used. I’m thinking they are smarter than that and it is no accident that info was omitted. as you are connected in some way to fair maybe you could reach out to them and let them know they either purposely or accidentally left out the use of nude adolescent images? Perhaps they can publish a correction. ?? https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/home-page/current-events/aversion-therapy-for-homosexuality-in-scientific-historical-context

What did you think of the use of pictures of clothed and nude adolescents? I’m wondering how people read this doc and completely miss that? Sounds like some LE agency needs to do some digging to see if this involved child porn. Surely the researcher is still alive or many of the study participants are.

Yep… bunch of wack jobs. The whole lot of them

https://ia800400.us.archive.org/16/items/BYUaversionTherapy/McBride Effect of Visual Stimuli in Electric Aversion Therapy BYU Dissertation Aug 1976_text.pdf pp46 of the actual pdf… described how study subjects could avoid being shocked or what would cause them to be shocked. No where in the pdf could I find evidence the test subject shocked themselves

and in practice he allowed a student to use nude pics from playgirl and playboy "like" magazines....doesnt sound much like the statue of david EFFECT OF VISUAL STIMULI IN ELECTRIC AVERSION THERAPY Max Ford McBride Department of Psychology Ph.D. Degree, August 1976 ABSTRACT Two experimental groups of seven subjects each received Behavior therapy for male homosexuality which incorporated aversive conditioning and assertion training. The intent of the study was to determine whether use of nude male and female pictures are a necessary requisite for successful treatment. Indices of change included subjective rating of male and female slides used in treatment, pleythysmographic impact measured by penile volume change to a standard set of male and female slides not used in treatment, and a self-report questionnaire that measured sexual orientation. Results showed that treatment was effective in reducing homosexual responsiveness. It was found that nude male pictures used in treatment were more effective in ,d ’minishi ng sexual responsiveness to male stimuli. It was also found that the initial use oi nude female pictures may inhibit fantasy activity during treatment. COMMITTEE APPROVAL: D. Eugene Thorne, Committee Chairman Reed Payne, Committee Member David G. Weight, Committee Member Darhl M. Pedersen, Department Chairman No one brought it in...McBride provided it or so it would seem Thorne didnt care enough obviously,,, he blessed off this paper

Your buddy McBride used pornographic images of nude adolescents, men and women in his study... at least that is what he wrote and BYU gave him his degree so I guess it was BYU approved..... I swear people who get into studying this crap need to get locked up. I bet McBride had a temple recommend too. I read the whole paper I posted below. What a freak show. This would be a good primer for the next sequel of SAW "Pre-Post Rating of Male and Female Therapy VCS Male therapy VCS were randomly selected by E. from a series of slides that had been prepared by several homosexuals who had been previously treated by Dr. D. Eugene Thome. Female therapy VCS were chosen randomly from women's fashion magazines and Playboy-like magazines. Male and female therapy VCS were randomly arranged, they were not hierarchly scheduled (Thome, 1968). Therapy VCS was rated on a scale from 1 to 9. A rating of 1 signified sexual repulsion, 5 signified sexual neutrality, and 9 high sexual interest. Each slide was viewed until S was able to reliably rate it. Pleythvsmographic Measure of VCS Impact A phallometric test using a pleythysmographic mercury-inrubber-strain-gauge was used to assess physiological arousal to (visually projected) male and female slides before and after treatment. The apparatus used was patterned after Bancroft et al. (1966). Changes in penile volume were measured in mm increase in diameter of the penis. The measure used was the largest increase m penile circumference that occurred during the first 10 minute period following presentation of the first standard VCS . A reading of 25 mm represented a full erection (Bancroft, 1970). An arbitrary cut-off point between erotic and non-erotic was between 0.4 and 0.6 mm (Bancroft & Staples, 19 74). Male and female nude VCS were chosen randomly by the E from a series of pictures taken from recent Playboy/Playgirl-like magazines. Clothed stimuli were chosen from several popular women's and men's fashion magazines. These pictures were then made up into 35 mm slides. The slides were simple poses; there were no overt sexual activities portrayed or implied in any of the slides" pp53-55 "(male standard VCS were composed of nude, semi-nude and clothed adolescent and adult males in various poses). It appears because the compilation of the standard VCS slides was diverse, it was not difficult for S, to attend to or identify with some of the slide material and sustain an erection." pp73 WHAT???? nude, semi-nude and clothed adolescent and adult males in various poses?? What the fetch??? lol this just gets better the deeper one digs. Holy crap!! BYU- the Lord's University ... they ought to be proud of this one https://ia800400.us.archive.org/16/items/BYUaversionTherapy/McBride Effect of Visual Stimuli in Electric Aversion Therapy BYU Dissertation Aug 1976_text.pdf Hmmm playgirl and playboy "like" magazines... sounds like something BYU honor code office would have regarded as porn. Re the shaved armpits and legs. Well yea, no one wants to date a wookie.

Ok show how the works cited at Wikipedia are lies. I’m not saying you are incorrect, but you need to prove it. the fact male homosexuals were provided an environment to place measurement devices on their own penises and look at porn at BYU is a sure sign to me the school and the church is wack. Perverted even.

At BYU, gay men were subjected to electroshock therapy, having leads put on their arms and a girth measuring device placed on their penis in order to measure arousal or lack thereof. Once placed, the person was then shown nude images of males and then their “reaction” was measured. If there was an erection, they were shocked on the arm. anyway real choice stuff being done at byu at the approval of the church. Touching penises and showing college boys porn pics. The very last paragraph of this is interesting. “Aversion therapy at BYU edit See also: Sexual orientation change efforts and the LDS Church BYU's Honor Code office required some students reported for homosexual behavior to undergo electroshock and vomit aversion therapies in the 1970s.[8]: 155 [96]: 84  The on-campus program lasted into the mid-90s.[97]: 90  An intervention-style approach to "curing" homosexuality by therapists and unlicensed individuals gradually emerged in the LDS community as it became clear that the church leaders' self-help recommendations were not working.[97]: 89  One of the main efforts was BYU's aversion therapy program from 1959[5]: 377, 379  to the mid-90s[97]: 90  which used mostly electrical shocks to the arm or genitals, or sometimes induced-vomiting while showing the participants erotic imagery.[98]Shortly after the May 21, 1959, meeting of BYU president Ernest Wilkinson and apostles on the executive committee of the Church Board of Education discussing the "growing problem in our society of homosexuality" BYU began administering "aversion therapy" to "cure", "repair", or "reorient" homosexual feelings among Mormon males.[5]: 377, 379  The on-campus aversion therapy program lasted through the 1960s, 70s, 80s,[100] and into the mid-1990s.[97]: 90 [101] BYU mental health counselors, LDS bishops, stake presidents, mission presidents, general authorities, and the BYU Standards Office (equivalent to today's Honor Code Office) all referred young men to the BYU program.[102] Because of religious considerations, on September 22, 1969, BYU administration decided to reduce the amount of the on-campus "electrical aversive therapy" used to treat (among other things) what was deemed "sexual deviancy", though, the program continued.[103][45]: 82  From 1971 to 1980 BYU's president Dallin H. Oaks[45]: 32  had Gerald J. Dye over the University Standards Office[104] (renamed the Honor Code Office in 1991). Dye stated that during that decade part of the "set process" for homosexual BYU students referred to his office for "less serious" offenses was to require that they undergo some form of therapy to remain at BYU, and that in special cases this included "electroshock and vomiting aversion therapies."[8]: 155  In an independent BYU newspaper article two men describe their experience with the BYU Aversion therapy program during the early 1970s.[105]: 162  After confessing to homosexual feelings they were referred to the BYU Counseling Center where the electroshock aversion therapy took place using pornographic pictures of males and females. Jon, one of the individuals, implied that the treatment was completely ineffective.[65] The experiences match most reports which state that shock therapy was ineffective in changing sexual orientation.[106]: xxvi  From 1975 to 1976 Max Ford McBride, a student at BYU, conducted electroshock aversion therapy on 17 men (with 14 completing the treatment) using a male arousal measuring device placed around the penis and electrodes on the bicep. He published a dissertation on the use of electrical aversive techniques to treat ego-dystonic homosexuality.[107] The thesis documents the use of "Electrical Aversion Therapy" on 14 homosexual men using a "phallometric" apparatus, "barely tolerable" shocks, and "nude male visual-cue stimuli."[108][107] Although it is not publicly published whether all top LDS Church leaders were aware of the electroshock aversion therapy program,[109]: 1  it is known that apostles Spencer W Kimball, Mark E. Peterson, and now apostle Dallin H. Oaks were,[5]: 379  and leaders involved in LDS Social Services thought the therapy was effective.[110][53]: 164–165 At the time, homosexuality was considered by the medical community as a psychiatric condition,[111][112] and aversion therapy was one of the more common methods used to try to change it.[113] In 1966, Martin Seligman had conducted a study at the University of Pennsylvania that demonstrated positive results, which led to "a great burst of enthusiasm about changing homosexuality [that] swept over the therapeutic community."[114] After flaws were demonstrated in Seligman's experiments, aversion therapy fell out of popularity, and in 1994 the American Medical Association issued a report that stated "aversion therapy is no longer recommended for gay men and lesbians."[115] Participant in the 1975–76 BYU study Don Harryman wrote that he experienced "burns on [his] arms and ... emotional trauma."[106]: 26–28 [116]Another participant, John Clarence Cameron, who wrote a play called "14" about his experiences, said "it didn't change anything except increase my self-loathing. I didn't know the ramifications of the experiment until years later."[109]Cameron stated that he "would like everyone to tell the truth, admit the mistakes that took place, and stop trying to act like it didn't happen"[117]Another one of the test subjects described his experiences, stating "No one wanted to change more than I did. I did everything within my power to change, and it didn't alter my homosexuality one whit. All I had learned to do was suppress much of my personality ... I was shutting down, turning off.... I was making my life miserable by a pervasive denial of who I am."[118] Connell O'Donovan,[119] Val Mansfield and Drew Staffanson described undergoing aversion therapy and Raymond King describes his involvement as an intern with the BYU psychology department's electroshock aversion therapy program in the 1996 short documentary Legacies.[120][121] The documentary 8: The Mormon Proposition also contains an interview wherein Bruce Barton states that BYU coerced him into vomit aversion therapy, as well as electroshock therapy, which later precipitated his suicide attempt.[122] Jayce Cox also reported his experience with BYU shock therapy[123] and suicidal ideation in articles and an MTV documentary.[127] Scott Burton discusses the burn marks on his wrists he developed when undergoing electroshock therapy from ages 13 to 15 at the hands of a Mormon therapist by request from his Mormon parents.[128] In 2011 BYU admitted to the past use of electroshock therapy but denies that it had ever used vomit-inducing therapy "in the BYU Counseling Center"[108] (which has been in the Wilkinson Student Center since 1964). However, the students that underwent the treatment have stated that the vomit therapy took place in the basement of the Psychology department's Joseph F. Smith Family Living Center (built in 1957, demolished in 2002).[120][129] In 2021 Dallin Oaks claimed that electroshock aversion therapy "never went on under my administration" at BYU while he was the university's president from 1971 to 1980, while a BYU student produced a master's thesis on the electroshock program at BYU in 1976.[130][131]“ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBTQ_history

Along with that acknowledgement a double down by oaks that it absolutely never happened while he was president at byu… well the shocking part of it.

I do recall yesterday I advised you to quit engaging with me if you were not happy with the experience. Perhaps you should take my advice. You may find it will make you a bit less confrontational and angry. Take care

Hearsay

I don’t disagree on your opinion re the identity stuff. Was kinda trolling pyreaux as he was the one who made a big deal out of it and saying the only way I can be an ex Mormon is to actually get exed or resign. Didn’t matter what I thought.

Arrogant??? Lol just because someone trots out a dream they had the night before doesn’t make it true. Anyone can say they saw Jesus. The way these guys talk about it they know everyone except a few believers are not buying it. Best course of action is to say nothing at all because you can’t prove it one bit. The world is full of preachers and other wackos saying god / Jesus talks to them in visions. Doesn’t make it true.

Someone else here is saying kimball announced it over the pulpit in gen conference. I’m not so sure quoting another prophet counts but the poster said it did. I read the quote and I didn’t take away that kimball himself saw Jesus first hand. If he did, why would he quote someone else’s experience?

Done- thanks for the info

Seems like that’s the only way it may be happening anymore if at all. I prefer to consider people’s experiences that occur when they are lucid, not when they are having a nap. I’ve had some pretty wild dreams over the years and every single one of them are fake. Just the mind thinking about what it wants to while it is entertaining itself during your nap.

Ok good for you. If you don’t care what my opinion is then quit engaging with me.

You gotta be kidding with these guys lol… did u read their accounts? Ballard and Whitney both stated it was a dream while they were sleeping and haight was unconscious for several days after a surgery. So basically they were all dreaming. sounds like the witnesses to the gold plates and seeing the plates with their spiritual eyes. ive had dreams I got a hookup with some woman on a few different occasions. Doesn’t mean it happened although I wish it had. Same with these guys.. dreams lol do you believe everyone’s dreams are true happenings or just Mormon leaders? i suppose they believe it maybe, but as for me saying you dreamed it qualifies it as a nice story and all but likelihood it happened is pretty much nil.

Read the quote. He is using the words of cannons testimony, not his own. Is he not enough of a big boy to speak for himself?

I don’t identify as Mormon, I identify as exMormon. Problem is pyreux himself on this forum has said I have no right to call myself as exMormon until I either resign or get excommunicated. The church itself owns me according to him. Sorry but I get to criticize as a Mormon I guess.

Not from a Mormon prophet no. Too many lies or supporting brethren who have lied. We hold cops to a higher standard of honesty than we do for prophets. That’s backwards.

sure I do Possibly, but our own prophets are scared to say it publicly and they are afraid to engage with the public other than in church setting g where they are not challenged. Last time this happened, (holland / Hinkley) with reporters they got caught in lies. They can’t handle pressure which is why they are isolated and make such wish washy statements.

Well I’m getting people stating all kinds of prophets and apostles since Lorenzo snow have been saying they have actually seen Jesus. So far we have two heresay accounts and the rest are the standard “ I know Jesus lives.” None so far have straight up said they saw Jesus in person nor have I ever heard of or seen prophet stating such. As for accepting a claim?? I’m far more open to it if they just say they have as opposed to making a huge word salad statement dancing around actually making such a statement. The way they do this is just manipulation and some people fall for that kind of talk. Usually when people dance around with wordy explanations without just being forthright they are just lying. Sounds just like a suspect in an interrogation desperately trying to sell an alibi to an fbi agent.

I’m not seeing anywhere where swk stated HE saw Jesus. He is stating what George q cannon said. im not sure im ready to believe a guy who also taught in conference that Navajos turn white when they become righteous. Anyone who talks like that is clearly a nutjob.

Cfr for statements of kimball (from him) that he has seen Jesus in person. no I didn’t know, you were the one who made the claim and I don’t think it is quite true. So far we don’t have a direct statement from kimball himself unless someone wants to cough one up.