Notatbm

The criteria to serve a service mission is still exclusive to those who have physical, mental or emotional issues. Exceptions are for early return missionaries who are on the mend with injuries/ illnesses or they simply don’t have a whole lot of time left to go back out to door knocking missions.

You need to go back to the 1980s to find anything that would have applied to me. That said we still have church leaders teaching over the pulpit that it is mandatory (Nelson/ Pierson) I had to add this as I just remembered seeing it. Sounds like the church actually endorses pressuring the young men, but in the same article says young men shouldn’t serve because they felt pressured. If that makes any sense. Yea we pressure you, but you shouldn’t use that as a reason for serving. Find another reason while we pressure you… lol can’t make it up https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2012/01/to-the-point/why-is-there-so-much-pressure-on-young-men-to-go-on-a-mission-isnt-it-a-personal-decision?lang=eng

I know what they do. The fact they essentially are trolling for parents who have wayward kids and are trying to present an alternative for the inheritance to go to the church as opposed to the kid. The premise being that you child who is no longer a believer or is just inactive or whatever, doesn’t deserve the inheritance, we do. grief? Well after the yelling and screaming and mother locked herself in their room for a couple weeks crying about her family being destroyed.. it got better. The silent treatment. It then got better and I was only repeatedly lectured about how I am ruining everyone’s lives. My father was the SP so that made it 100x worse. Whole stake knew the SPs son opted out. all my kids went and it wasn’t because I encouraged them. I made sure they all knew they definitely had a choice so if they went it was 110% their problem if they hate it. I also told them I’d support whatever choice they made unlike other people I know. yep… everyone knows if you are not an Eagle Scout and an RM then you are worthless to the church and will never be as successful at anything as you would have been if you had taken the time to go on a mission. I was taught growing up if you didn’t serve a mission you are disobeying the lord. So you know any church leader who would say a person who disobeys the lord is a good person? I don’t used to work in a financial planning firm (just a paperwork processor) and I saw hundreds of families. Many of them who had blown it all and are crying their eyes out about how are they gonna get it back so they can be comfortable. Several were lds. There was even a couple who had spent their entire retirements going on senior missions and now their kids had to support them for the rest of their lives. They were not even seventy years old. Dumbest couple I ever met… they did lots of missions though.

I wouldn’t classify my statements about ministering as complaints. Was going back and forth about using ministers to share info on members. I just mentioned that the workforce is there to do it but no one ministers really. Provided my own example. Again I don’t care if they visit or not. I’ll welcome them in but they need to reach out first and as of nearly a decade now… twice yep friends are good to have. We visit each other in the hospital, help move stuff, watch houses while on vacation, get coffee together, grill steaks and drink beers 🍺. All the stuff good neighbor should do and you don’t have to be a Mormon to be a decent person. Some people think you do tho.

I don’t care what dad said; the fact the church is using his situation as a means of gathering more assets is what the problem is. Last thing parents should be doing is bribing their kids to “stay” in the church. For most people this wouldn’t be a problem as family doesn’t have enough money to make it worth the hassle if you don’t want to be “all-in” so they can have a payday down the road. All this is is a sales pitch to rich Mormons some of which have inactive kids. The church wants their money and found another way to incentivize people to give their assets to the church instead of their one kid who is inactive but is an otherwise good person. when I decided against going on a mission I got bribed instantly with a new car after I got home and college 100% paid for…. After that then I could go into the military but not before. I refused and true to their word I got nothing. funny thing is as big of a turd as they hoped I would turn out, I’m the only kid who has never asked for money. Everyone else has repeatedly over the years according to dear mother. Also as a means of adding insult to injury they paid for most if not all the missions of my nieces and nephews but I was stuck with the bilL for my own kids’ missions. Thats not a huge deal as I turned out more financially successful than the rest of them but I can’t ever be a good person. So… bribery to stay in the church is a terrible thing to do and Jesus does not approve. I’m just glad I didn’t accept the deal as it would always be held over my head. if anything don’t tell ur kids the deal and just leave that detail in the will. They can show up to the trustee with their and their spouses recommend in hand. Without it no money. At least that way no one is staying in order to get a payout. the whole “sudden money” concept you bring up I agree to a point. Maturity has a lot to do with that, but being a righteous mormon doesn’t make anyone better at managing money than anyone else. There are plenty of good righteous Mormons out there who would squander it all … I know some as you probably do as well

Yes. Watch it.

I didn’t say anyone HAD to tell their parents , I said the leaders would do that. there are like ten people in my ward who I have never known and never lived around my family who know one of my family members. I could resign and once one of these people found out, my whole family would know in less than a week without me telling one of em. Then the crap show starts for a year or two. Not worth it.

I imagine it would be less dramatic if the church did it than when the individual does. Families can always criticize the individual as the prophet does like “lazy learner, lax disciple or taffy puller,” but they can’t criticize the church…. That’s apostasy Tons of families have left the church over the whole gay marriage your kids can’t get baptized debacle /fake revelation mess in 2015. They saw how much the leaders really don’t care. I imagine most good Mormons don’t miss families like that anyway….i know my family prob thinks good riddance to any lgbt supporters judging by the way they talked about those “perverts” in the past. anywho- they can clean up the roles or not. If they did can you imagine the sudden growth rate the church would experience with baptisms? Of course soon enough the boomers and those ahead of them turning the magic 110yrs old will be dying off like crazy. I prophesy we would actually see a drop in membership numbers once that snowballs. That said the data can always be manipulated to show what they want.

Ask and ye shall receive: https://archive.org/details/JourneyToBecome

Then why have the ability to excommunicate at all… who are they to say Jesus doesn’t want them in the flock?

I’m betting most don’t want their names removed because the local leaders will tell their parents. This regardless of the member is 25 or 55. I’m thinking most don’t want to get their parents all in a meltdown over empty chairs in heaven etc. my parents are gone now so the only familial drama would be at family get togethers. They like to structure them around church events like a family temple trip and stuff like that. I can see many holding onto a recommend just so they don’t have to deal with insufferable family members or so they can even associate in some families. My family would double down on church stuff if they knew one was out. Just to put the thumbscrews to you. Also some parents are pretty vocal about withholding inheritances if a child ( regardless of age) is inactive. The church has even pushed that tactic in the past. Anyhow there’s lots of reasons. Probably has to do more with dealing with families flipping out more than anything.

No I don’t give off that vibe. I have a bad attitude about the church, but I have never verbalized anything to anyone unless they ask… and no one ever has HT experience for me has been the same as you basically. I have lived in the ward nearly ten yrs.. one visit from home teacher two years after we moved in. Change to ministering and again one visit right when program started whenever that was. Have not seen or heard from anyone since. I do get the annual text from ward clerk for tithing settlement tho so I guess we can tell what they really care about. I don’t really care if someone visits or calls or not. Anytime anyone wants to brag on ministering ( which I have rarely heard- sounds like it’s even more of a failure than HT) I just roll my eyes. I am thankful for the reduction in church from three to two hours, not that I go anymore but I mention anyone talks to anyone else anymore. It’s get in, get out. Activities for the youth have been slashed and at least in our stake no ward parties, dinners etc. there is zero social activity. Makes the local evangelical churches look like stellar successes. They at least have community there. my friend circle is who I work with and a couple vet groups so I’m good.

I don’t know why anyone would be sorry though. Given the times and they are not too long ago the GAs were talking bout this topic like crazy. How do you explain packers talk in the general priesthood meeting ( that’s where the pamphlet came from) or mark petersons guide on how to stop masturbating? I’m just surprised no leader has ever asked you (. Think ur who said that). anyway… check this out… mark e Peterson is wack.. https://archive.org/details/steps_in_overcoming_masturbation_mark_e_petersen/page/n5/mode/1up?view=theater

actually the rank is permanent but you are not a member of the natl Eagle Scout assn .Membership (lifelong) in NESA comes with a $500 fee. I’m wouldn’t join if someone paid it for me since they covered up decades of man/ boy rape. Talk about corruption. Any organization that covers one’s abuse of children deserves to be sued into oblivion if they can’t be shoved into prison cells. oh yea didn’t think of that. They are just like the church, the only time I hear from them is when they want money. well I vote and am proud to be a member of the party.

we have several kids in our ward and family who are “out” publicly. Most are not shy about it. My generation (x) no one had time for any lgbtq drama and you kept it to yourself. Go to a high school campus right now (not in Utah) . Kids in same- sex relationships dang near having public sex and this is gilbert. Current generation isn’t shy about it. it asks you to list sins already repented of and handled by a bishop. In addition to any others . Jesus forgets our sins except for sometimes not. Even after you repented and your bishop has declared you forgiven. What is there to apologize for? bishops were supposed to do that. Jesus probably told the prophet to make sure to police up all the kids who play with themselves.

This is what I said and exactly what you challenged me on: "every org I have ever been a part of will purge you from the roles if you dont pay dues, attend meeting etc" Every org I have been a part of does exactly that. Nowhere in there did I mention any church. You dont get to make up stuff I did not say. Take your CFR request and file it in the trash.

if you compare my post to his response you posted here, id like to hear your opinion on the comparison. Id truly like to know if im smoking crack here.

I did just read his post and in addition to attributing false statements to me, this is a smattering of the hyperbole, name calling and character smearing he engages in. Just some highlighted text from his post...it is a very large portion of the post. Anyone who engages like this with all the hyperbole i do not take seriously: underlying venomous motive little fake epiphany shows disingenuous feigned desire façade clever way to couch a hostile demand. the comparison is flawed The true, venomous motive is revealed the final sentence is a moment of pure, unfiltered glee fake motive you can weaponize cherry-picked data The most emotionally charged and extreme examples just to openly taint an entire group. This is not about a reasoned argument it's about how many times you can associate the entire Church with the most heinous crimes imaginable. All of this is just a cry for personal vindication Projection A psychological and moral defense mechanism where individuals unconsciously attribute their own unacceptable thoughts, feelings, or qualities to another person or group. In this case, the ex-Mormon poster is projecting their own qualities onto the Church. Lying: Notatbm's argument is disingenuous, as it is presented as helpful advice but is actually a hostile attack. He accuses the Church of being deceptive by inflating its numbers, yet he himself is being deceptive about his motives. He becomes the very thing claimed to hate or criticize, is a powerful and destructive psychological cycle. It often stems from deep-seated resentment and a need to externalize one's own perceived flaws. Intolerance Notatbm seems to be a typical secular ex-Mormon that was made by "deconstruction". To see flaws results in a new, impossible standard for any Church to live up to because it often involves the rejection of the core principles of mercy, forgiveness, and grace that are fundamental to any church.

I don’t even read his Mile-long hyperbole filled posts. He is real good at putting words in others mouths which were not even uttered/written. Just like the cfr he just tried to corner me with. read my initial post and compare what I wrote to what he said I wrote. Didn’t match up . Most of what he claims I said isn’t even in there. He just makes stuff up.

Where did I say ANY church does that?

Boy sounds like you missed out… lol this is between 1978 ish till I got out of high school. My boys are both adults and were also asked about it repeatedly in the 2000s. anyway yep before you became a deacon you got asked point blank by the bishop… they’d ask a couple times cuz of course either the kid had no idea what he was talking about or his answer was a lie. Many kids learned how in their first interview cuz the bishop had to describe what it was and why people ( only bad people of course) did it then the kid goes home and figures it out lol. also they made sure to tell you it can make you gay. Packer gave a talk in a general conference priesthood session about it… see pamphlet narrative I attached. I have heard this crap brought up all the way through the 2000s in priesthood meeting too. Heck when smart phones came out and you could look up porn on them my bishop stormed into elders quorum one day and accused everyone of masturbating to porn with their phones. He said he had just left the relief society room full of women bawling their eyes out about their husbands porn use… asked my wife later what happened in RS and she verified about ten women were venting about it so now the whole ward knows. Like I mentioned earlier RS is a great source of info there’s always a couple of em who gotta spill the tea on their hubbys publicly. I hear all kinds of stuff from my wife back in the day. yep it was a time. human nature being what it is, likely the q15 and bishops carrying their water were totally guilty of the same thing they shamed others for. this pamphlet got issued to all of us when I was a kid. I’ve seen it around in the 1990s even. https://archive.org/details/ToYoungMenOnly/page/n2/mode/1up

Funny I just mentioned sealing cancellation. Went to lds Reddit and this was the first post there: “i just started the sealing cancellation process with my bishop- it asks for all sins i’ve committed since the day i got married, and to list anything whether or not it’s already been taken care of with priesthood authority. Why? I spoke to friends who had a sealing cancellation years ago and they didn’t have to do this. Also any insight in to what this process will look like are greatly appreciated. :)”

They don’t know cuz they don’t actually minister to people. Since when is the church concerned with an invasion of privacy? I distinctly remember a bishop asking 11.95 year old me if I masturbate. Mormon bishops and mission presidents have asked that forever… still do. Why about someone trying to cancel a sealing after a divorce? The form specifically asks you to list all sins committed even if they have already been confessed to a bishop. Yep no privacy there. “Jesus forgot about your sins, but he actually works for us so we need to revisit them. “ anyway- ministers who do their jobs will most likely know. Something about getting to know the people you minister to. someone like Robinson would have told a ministering bro about his situation. Kids brag on that stuff now. I still think the relief society pres is best source. When my wife was in presidency some crazy stuff got brought to them… mostly hubbys playing with himself to porn but there was plenty of wife beating, dui arrests and borderline child abuse accusations told to them. The women with crap hubbys love to vent to other women.

His ministering dude from church should know… the church isn’t Anti lgbtq or trans??? Remember they have to remains celibate. No problem disciplining unmarried heterosexual couples for living together

He was 22 living with his trans lover in his own place. What time is better than that?