Notatbm

Please post the church’s current statement on why they just now decided to authenticate the doc? Any use by anyone other than the church is not deemed correct or disclosed with any kind of authority until the church itself did so. process was nearly the same for the 1832 first vision account. Their silence speaks volumes. They have a problem with telling the truth.

They just now published the original copy which they have had since before you and I were born. I learned long ago this “prophesy” was not true. Now we find out it is via the church making a random posting in the library of the original. With no commentary. Yes the church hid it and lied about it. IMHO.

This didnt age well: He added, “We would have to say, as two apostles who have covered the world and know the history of the Church and know the integrity of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve from the beginning, there has been no attempt on the part of the Church leaders to try to hide anything from anybody.” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/apostles-answer-questions-about-standards-doubts-during-ysa-face-to-face?lang=eng&source=post_page---------------------------

Agreed. Also wish they replaced it with an actual program. As of now it is on the local leadership to do “something.” YMMV greatly

Yea historically eagles not done right. Lds church has (d) a rep of eagle and mb mills. Personally i saw so much fraud with merit badges and various rank requirements I didn’t see much value in the program. All many kids learned was how to manipulate requirements and or just say you did them. Any kid can read the merit badge pamphlet and compare the requirements with what he actually did and in many cases see the mb counselor just signed stuff off without it Ben’s done. Our stake used to run mb clinics and they would literally waive several requirement s and the counselors would just sign them off. So in my personal experience along with what my daughters did- yea yw award was harder to get. there’s a reason it used to be said the mother was who really earned the eagle.

The young womenhood recognition award was more work than an eagle imho.

Can’t speak for the girls but for the boys it was an indicator of a “good kid.” Parents were driven to push their boys to get it. Drivers licenses, dating, cars etc were all held hostage by many families to force their kid to get their Eagle. I imagine similar things happened in yw. Both Eagle and yw recognition were a big thing wherever I have been, but only the boys got a separate ceremony for their award. Girls just got called up to the podium and pat on the head.

The scouting program was pretty good although it wasn’t for everyone. Any reasonable person who could read could be a scout leader and guide kids though it. The church spent 195yrs in scouting. That was 105years of priesthood leadership that didn’t have to do anything other than follow a manual written by others and they could have a successful program. That said- most leaders ( or n my experience) put forth almost no effort and parents also didn’t care. Once the BSA started discussing allowing girls, gays etc the church started waffling on its support of BSA. Obviously the endless string of lawsuits tied to concealing child molestations perpetrated by the BSA and other major supporting orgs were the straw that broke the camels back. that leaves the church with 100% of its current priesthood leadership nearly incapable of creating any kind of program because it has always been handed to them. I imagine the Q15 never bothered with getting a replacement designed because they were never really involved in it themselves. I imagine it will be over a generation before they fix this -if ever. Leaving it 100% in the hands of local leadership is a sure way to guarantee nothing will happen. Every three to five years new leaders will come in and either create a local program, destroy it or implement a replacement. What that leads to is apathy (already here) and its consistency. All the kids see is that there is nothing for them here but chaos. Oh and basketball in the case of our stake.

I can’t speak for the young women, but for the boys it was long made a big deal to earn the eagle badge. According to pres beck who visited our stake years ago, getting the eagle was a nearly solid way to get a kid on a mission and married in the temple. A huge indicator of continued activity in the church. That is why the church dumped so much $$ into it. They may have been right. Apparently half the kids going on missions are now leaving the church. None of them are Eagle Scouts now unless parents put them through scouting with a heathen troop. Guess there was something to that Eagle.

I have no idea what our primary is doing. I’m referring to our yw/ym. 12-18. You mentioning the primary service projects is the first I have heard of it.

At least with scouting (can’t speak for the yw) there were the service projects. Most actually did service to a charity or the community outside of church. Now the incidence of service projects has diminished to extremely rare in our stake. When they do have one, so far 100% of time it has been serve to the church itself.. an org that is probably the last entity that has any need it cannot pay for in perpetuity.

Thanks- Parents handled it the way they felt best. I mean our church culture at the time (70s-and 80s) was all about forcing your kids to comply until they moved out. If they resist going to church, scripture study , seminary, scouts force them to go somehow. Take away privileges, brow beat them whatever. Dont stop the pressure until you either gain compliance or the kid moves out or you kick them out. We learn this be keeping screaming kids in the pews and take them out into the foyer once in a while for a whipping. You don’t see that as much these days but there’s people in my ward who do it. What does the child learn??? Obey or get a whipping or some other punishment. When I was growing up school principals and deans wouldn’t even call home to ask permission to swat your misbehaving angel. They just did it and dared you to go home and complain about it. Why?? Because your parents likely would make you go cut a switch too. anyway that’s the way it was. Yea I complied until there was no way I could fake it. Go get sworn got into to the military and now you are owned by uncle Sam. No way out. I knew I was in for it- not even a surprise. Caught hell from my bishop as well. It was relentless. I did learn from this whole experience is no matter the calling and no matter what you think about who calls who to leadership positions, there is no discernment or inspiration about it. If there was, Satan wouldn’t have such free rein with some of them. I learned to question church authority no matter who it was because the more orthodox they were, the more likely they condoned if not engaged in the same behavior themselves. I’ve seen this same thing in my own family with apostate kids and also in the many wards I have been in. Not just isolated to my little world. Parents are not perfect but I am amazed at the verbal abuse and threats some will dole out over church stuff. Personally I think they have just spent a lifetime virtue signaling, gossiping and now it’s everyone else’s turn to judge Molly Mormon and Peter priesthood’s wayward child… they must not be reading their scriptures, don’t have a year supply, no garden, prob not doing CFM or FHE etc. name any Mormon checklist item and that gets incorporated into the gossip when they start badmouthing you or your kid. I have been in ward council before and heard some of this dialogue. In my current ward I have a friend (mole) who has mentioned my family (mostly me) gets talked about from time to time. We rarely attend and they keep trying to get me involved with mostly made up bs callings like I need some church activity in my life to feel validated . They wanted me in young men’s because I was a big scouter back in the day, but I’m a poor example to them because I am openly anti mission. Also I am anti whatever the youth program is these days. No one in my stake or ward has been able to clearly articulate what it even is. glad you got zero pushback re your kid not going n s mission. Things change. We recently had a kid flat out quit his mission and come home very early. They had him give a homecoming talk. People were like holy cow we would have had the kid banished back in the day. Now they act like he did his whole two years honorably. I guess that’s good but now it’s just participation trophy. Why do the whole two years of they’ll kiss your butt for doing six months?

Arizona… down in the gilbert/mesa/ queen creek “Zion”

I’m sure for some it is. I know many who it seems to work for them. It is hard to tell with people you don’t know so well and are not involved n their personal lives. for the people I do know who it seems to be a facade, usually (in my humble opinion) it is because something isn’t going right with their marriage, kids , job etc. my parents always wore that “we r happy as heck smile” even though we work full time jobs and are in huge time suck callings and basically have no life other than church. That is until I pulled the trigger on not going on a mission. After that they kept wearing the smile, but once we alone in the house the war against my decision was on. Much weeping waiting and renting of garments. You’d think I murdered half my family or something. They were furious and either life was the silent treatment or lectures/preaching/ threats/bribes etc. what really happened is now the ward council and general gossip mill made them the targets. Parents knew exactly how the gossip went. They were part of it until my decision. I have a few siblings similar thing happened to. Gay kids, apostate kids etc. yea they still put on the smile but I know they are sad/angry at their kids for not filling out the checklist properly.

Last i heard Joseph Smith is the decider (per Brigham Young) as to who gets into the celestial kingdom. Sounds like he is at least the first in the chain of command to welcome/greet the new arrivals. Of course he could just send a representative to bring someone through the veil so who knows really: "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity and calling, as God does in Heaven" - Journal of Discourses, Vol.14, p.203

Thanks. Yea I just do my thing. Can’t get all upset that people don’t agree with my life choices. Oh well. your situation has got to be pretty rough. I’m a lightweight in that dept. my family would go absolutely insane in their reaction. Hell I was literally called an apostate for not going on a mission of all things lol. Yea I was the worst person ever lol. I can only imagine their reaction to other things.

I have not experienced the same shunning as you have, but starting with my refusal to serve a mission I have been sort of an outcast with my family. Definitely not to the same level as you apparently but we have been excluded from lots of stuff. perhaps your family took Pres Oaks commentary (if even aware of it) about not being seen in public or allowing staying overnight to heart. You likely know the comment I’m talking about. If not, here it is: “I can also imagine some circumstances in which it might be possible to say, ‘Yes, come, but don’t expect to stay overnight. Don’t expect to be a lengthy house guest. Don’t expect us to take you out and introduce you to our friends, or to deal with you in a public situation that would imply our approval of your “partnership.”” https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/interview-oaks-wickman-same-gender-attraction

1- I’m coming from the inactive kid side of things. Parents are gone now, but for a good twenty years or so we (wife and I) would get church books (name any book from deseret and we got it) for all our birthdays and Christmas etc. I didn’t read one of em and we easily had a couple thousand dollars worth of them before we ended up tossing them out after my parents died. They couldn’t check our bookshelf anymore. Also the continuous dialog about church stuff was true for them too. I grew up hearing incessant church talk. Church was their entire life. I didn’t really care to hear it but understood this was literally their life. They didn’t even have any non Mormon friends. 2- can’t help you there other than find something interesting in their lives to talk about. If you can’t find anything interesting other than church stuff. Well that’s a problem. 3- it is your house. As I’m the parent and I drink on occasion, I don’t do it when my kids are over so as not to influence the grand kiddos. I’m always happy to buy a beer if they want one tho. My kids are all on the way out so they really don’t care. They don’t drink anyway. 4- no idea