Maestrophil

Lobbying pressure from local ice cream and fro-yo places must have gotten to them! 😛

For me, and I think similar sentiment has already been expressed, apologetics helped me expand my mind to the possibilities that could be - it helped me be less myopic. I think we as humans can be very set on what is FACT be they pro or anti religion - and their one way of seeing things has to be THE way. Apologetics within the church (not all apologetics, but most of what I found at FAIR) has helped me to broaden my mind and increase my faith that there are multiple possible explanations for many things, and I don't need to fret if I can't nail one explanation down as fact. I can hold out that the is AN explanation out there somewhere and my faith is sufficient until that truth is revealed to me. In other words it created fields of plausibility that buttress my faith.

My band played those same places - I actually had a bishop once tell me , "I wouldn't go anywhere the Savior wouldn't go" in response to me inviting him to one of my gigs. And here I thought the Lord hung out with lepers, publicans, and sinners. 🙂 Edited to add - having played the Zephyr really dates us though, doesn't it. 🙂

Here is where I could take offense should I choose to at these lyrics (I don't really choose to get offended very often :-)). - It's a lot like the signs "In this house - we believe in science, love is love etc." The way they are worded implies that we , the straight listeners, are not already teaching our kids these things, and they NEED to be converted. It implies pretty directly that the listener is a homophobe and is teaching it to their children by default - just like those signs seem to imply that those 'other' homes where YOU live are rubes who hate science and gays if they don't believe or express themselves like I do. I see the intent of taking the steam out of the trope of gay men coming for our kids by writing a 'parody' song - but I also agree with some that it can come across as mean-spirited and 'othering" if that is even a word. 🙂

I have read this post and others, and I still don't get what the main arguments are against the church having wealth. Can the OP list bullet points of what he finds objectionable? 1. The thought of poor being asked to give when the church has money? 2. The thought that having money is against Jesus' teachings? 3. The thought that the church is not giving enough to charity? ???

I agree - and add to that the fact that no concession will ever be enough, as people will always be clamoring for the cause du jour - My question was honest - I see any path towards trying to please the masses rather than hold to gospel principles as a losing and endless battle. If I believed the dissatisfied would be satisfied by honest expressions of love and acceptance from the church while still holding to the standard of worthiness for temple attendance and full fellowship, I would not feel so doubtful of the ability of the church to her do or be enough.

Again - my question is - what is the change? What will be enough? Is the ANY way the church can stand by heterosexual marriage being the only acceptable avenue for sexual relations (while still remaining temple worthy) and not have people be upset? I've yet to hear anyone that is upset at the church for their stance on LGBTQ issues give me a hypothetical that would be acceptable to them that would not allow for SS relationships with active sex lives.

I agree with much of the sentiment of what you are saying here, but also think you are creating a false dichotomy. I certainly don't know how to address this issue globally as far as the church goes - my hope and faith is that more inspired and educated minds than mine are working on the issue. That said, I think the dichotomy I mentioned is that you state the church has to amend its stance on queer relationships, sexually speaking, OR tell queer people that the only way they can be happy is outside of the church. Not necessarily true. Some I know have found hope and solace in living an asexual life (both homo and heterosexuals) having hope things will be for their good in the eternal scope of things. They have sacrificed their sexuality on the altar as it were. Who am I or you to say those people are living a lie? I also am not naive enough to think that this is universally an acceptable path for even many gay people. It is a hard life to choose (the abstinence, not the SSA - I know that isn't chosen). The part I agree with, is that part of the compassion comes from not condemning or judging those who feel they need to leave - The message I convey to my gay family/kids is 1. I love you always and accept you for who you are. 2. I totally understand and respect that you might feel the best way to live your best authentic life is outside the church. 3. I wish you only joy in your journey. 5. I do believe God can help you live a satisfying life in the gospel, should you pray and receive a personal witness you should stay - but that is between you and Him. 4. I love you always and respect you for who you are. 🙂 I have heard a few GA's express things along this lines in some private conversations I have been a part of, and would love to hear more of that tone from the pulpit.

Right there with you!

I think you are on to something here - If HJW was still a full-on traditionally 'safe' member - I bet the family would have been more willing to go - but I wouldn't be surprised if they see accepting the invitation to another faith as supporting HJWs 'slip into the dark' I used to play guitar for other denominations too, and from time to time, still do play for the Unity church here in UT. I find it a nice experience - even though I got booted once a long time ago at one church once the pastor discovered my LDS-ness. 🙂

Negative - I was told the new EQ press would let me know everything.

Like water torture! 🙂 OK, so the verdict is... 1st counselor in the EQ. So you guys were pretty on the money. Thanks for helping me learn something new about the calling process!

The only part that was hard for me I that my wife and I were int here for such a long time, we really felt like inactive, no one knew us and we didn't know anyone - aside from the parents who had nursery kids

I know - I have had that call several times and it is the best. I miss bringing my guitar and singing with the kids, and snacks... 🙂

Thanks for all the ideas. I'll return and let you know what it was after the meeting Wednesday. 🙂