Notatbm

Whatever he says is going on in that mission with otherwise healthy kids capable of proselytizing likely isnt happening. He doesn’t have to give names. Just thought if it was a church program and these guys or maybe just one guy is a motivational speaker at EFY perhaps there’d be a liahona article or something. Anyway- he did put it out there. I don’t see what the harm would be in providing a couple examples.

I have to agree with this one. My parents were soo deeply involved with church and my father always had high demand callings ( bishopric and on up) my entire adolescent life. I do not know him. He was always at a church meeting except on mondays and if not there he was at work or asleep. I was raised by sports coaches and scout leaders in respects to the father figure stuff. in the circles my family runs in, there are many like him. Wonderful church leader though. Everyone loved him. I learned a lot about him at his funeral. At least someone got to know him. I do think there is a benefit to church service and service to others. I’d have to agree that if overdone there are consequences. Once the church starts vetting people better for callings ( don’t call 25 year olds with two toddlers to be in bishopric) and members don’t feel like they have to do every flipping thing then we will have a better church.

Nope you said the church HQ was making special accommodations for some missionaries who were otherwise fit for a proselytizing mission but for some reason were not doing that. You said you worked in that area with church HQ. I figured you’d be able to share a couple examples of the specially designed missions for missionaries who were not disabled, had some kind of other crazy setback in life or personal situations. You know -kids like Ryder here who needs to get back to play football. by the example you gave about the possible EFY situation (I do not know if that was real or just an example of a possible accommodation) I figured you didn’t just pull that idea out of a hat. Did it happen ? If so let’s hear his story and why he was excused from door knocking. Since he was a motivational speaker or whatever at EFY ( if this happened) what is his name? Should be pretty public if he was giving talks to youth about emotional resilience or whatever. Look- you put that out there so you should back it up. I’m prob not the only one who would like to see examples. I think it would be great if kids could custom build their own mission if they don’t want to serve the standard two years knocking on doors. I might have gone on a mission myself if I had the choice of where to go, what I was going to do and for how long. This could be a game changer for some kids.

Why don’t you post some examples of missionaries who had special programs designed for them. What was the missionaries reason they couldn’t serve a regular mission (proselytizing) and what their special program was. Im looking for the type of mission designed to accommodate sports careers or other career aspirations. We aren’t talking about disabled kids or kids with huge train wrecks at home they are dealing with here. I’m talking about otherwise physically and mentally fit kids who can serve full time proselytizing missions yet somehow they need a special accommodation for whatever reason.

I never said that.

* you allow the mission president a bit too much power. If the kid who went to usc wasn’t released by the MP he could simply just leave ( without his MPs approval) unless he is a hostage. Are missionaries hostages? Are they imprisoned? * Let’s say the MP doesn’t “allow” this kid in question to leave early so he can play at BYU. Kid throws a fit and parents come get him and he splits his mission. Do you think the MP is gonna just blow it off or make sure the kids stake pres and probably BYU know he was disrespecting and disobeying the closest thing to a general authority the church has? *BYU is absolutely going to care if the player got into a disrespectful tiff with a mission president. The church would prob not accept him at the Y. That is what BYU has to do with things. It is the church. Heck they control kids down to shaving and how long their hair is. They definitely going to care if last month some entitled freshman BYU QB to be ran off from his mission waving the middle finger at the MPs fake authority. Don’t think that will happen as likely a deal will have been made before hand or the ink is drying on it as we speak. * yes we will see. Personally i hope he does the whole two years just like he is supposed to. If he doesn’t want to, there are plenty of schools who would kill to have him

Why is his brothers experience at USC relevant? Are they a Mormon church school? Do they want their male students to serve Mormon missions? Don’t think so- that’s why what his brother did is irrelevant for this mission discussion. I am saying byu has the choice here to make a special exemption from missionary service or a full mission. BYU has the choice. If a kid like this or his brother quit a mission to play for a college there isn’t a school out there who would care if he quit his mission and it isn’t an issue. The issue is BYU admits students based on an ecclesiastical endorsement. Just recently quitting your mission just to play sports should prompt BYU to tell him to finish his mission first ( just like pretty much everyone else is told) and not accept him until he does. That is what they should do if this happens. He will probably get a pass though. We will see. If he does all two years or some semblance of that so be it. If he quits at about the 1 year mark then this controversy will raise its ugly head. Remember the church feels serving a full time mission is the best thing you can ever do. the heathen schools don’t care about the Mormons or their missions. BYU should given our prophet just stood up and told the world a full time mission for male members is not optional. We know what the definition of a full time mission is for a healthy kid.. two years. If byu doesn’t care , accepts the kid who just quit his mission t play sports then the church sets the precedence that missions are not only totally optional, but you should quit any time you like for any reason. I’m thinking that is not the message they want to send. We will see what happens. it used to be it was faith promoting to put aside your career and school aspirations to serve a full mission. Many “hero” stories out there of people who lost scholarships and or professional sports careers to serve a mission. Those guys were the real “Saturday warriors.” Now apparently it looks as if the quitters are gonna start becoming the new standard for faith promoting church service or lack thereof.

Sentence #1 you worked in one area of the church with church hq. Apparently there is some kind of flexibility there. What that is who knows sentence #2 discretion by priesthood leaders to adapt the program. Apparently the spirit tells them what to do. Reference the spirit here. Is this the same spirit that told the entire first presidency the salamander letter was real? If so then we are not dealing with a reliable one influence. that said-tell us how many kids came to the area you were working with and were provided a program to accommodate their sports career or were the accommodations made for missionaries with sick parents, severe financial hardship, disabilities etc? I imagine there were no accommodations made for aspiring athletes who do not want to serve all two years because their career prospects are more important than everyone else’s. Why don’t you post some examples of missionaries who had special programs designed for them… you know to accommodate sports careers or other career aspirations. We aren’t talking about disabled kids or kids with huge train wrecks at home they are dealing with here. I’m talking about otherwise physically and mentally fit kids who can serve full time proselytizing missions yet somehow they need a special accommodation for whatever reason.

Throngs?? Most of the converts go inactive within just a few months after baptism. How is that not backfiring ? Speaking of throngs. Why so many rms leave the church? Converts and rms both bailing. Sounds like the missionary program is backfiring.

where did I say that? The said the heathen school doesn’t care about mission service. Quitting a mission doesn’t mean anything to them other than they get their QB earlier than planned. No one is required to work with their MP to quit their mission. They can just leave. Yep - and on one hand I’m surprised the church will allow him to attend BYU as a reward for disobeying the lord and not fulfilling his two year obligation or duty as. Some call it. Quitting a mission early to play ball shows whoever is granting the ecclesiastical endorsement that they feel football is more important to the member in question than obeying the lord and serving a full time mission. on the other hand the church is full of double standards and if it happens I will not be surprised. What is really important is how the church and its leaders treat the rank and file going forward. The church has pretty much lost control of its youth and if this does happen it will be worse.

Ok I read the two sentences. So in your experience in one area, some unnamed church leader at church hq has some discretion to allow anyone (unnamed special category of member or member celebrity?) to dictate what they will do and how long they they’ll do their mission service? Like someone who wants to tailor their mission experience to their own personal whims? Where is this and who is the leader? Doesn’t sound like a church-wide program. If in fact our aspiring BYU QB was to learn about it either you or the church would have to reach out to him and tell him how he can game the system and get special consideration for his desires because it is quite obviously a secret program. I can’t see the church doing this for everyone. They would have to hire legions of vacation planners to accommodate all the wild ideas they surely would be presented.

The church website currently has this to say (see below) about service mission eligibility. They are for those who cannot serve proselytizing missions for various reasons. They do not list exceptions for those who don’t want to serve a proselytizing mission, but are otherwise able to. Please produce any other church documentation stating kids can dictate to the church what kind of mission they will serve: “Preaching the gospel to gather scattered Israel will always be the primary purpose of missionary service, so the Lord, through His leaders, will call most young people to find, teach, and baptize converts. Others, unable to serve in this manner, may be called to serve the Lord as a service missionary. Additionally, missionaries who return home early from a proselyting mission for long-term health reasons may be reassigned to serve the Lord as a service missionary. Some other candidates may, with our appreciation for their desire to serve, be honorably excused from any formal missionary service. …. Service Mission Eligibility Those who may be called to a service mission include worthy young men (ages 18–25) and young women (ages 19–25) unable to serve a proselyting mission for physical, mental, or emotional reasons. In addition, proselyting missionaries who return home early due to accident, illness, or other health conditions and have the desire and ability to continue their service to the Lord may be reassigned to a service mission when recommended by their stake president and General Authorities in the Missionary Department and when approved by the Quorum of the Twelve.“ https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/service-missionary/the-first-presidency-enclosure-to-leaders?lang=eng

Did I say there was? We will know once he serves his mission ( however long his sentence may be) , how long that service was and if BYU accepts him on the team. If he only serves a year, goes to BYU after, we will know the church approves of members quitting their missions early (even up to a year early) in order to play sports and make money. A different university taking him is a whole lot different than byu. BYU is the church and the church says makes serve 24 months with a few exceptions. None of the exceptions are for careers or playing sports , we will see what happens

Thanks for the input. While I will continue to respond to your comments at times please feel free to not read mine or respond to them if they don’t meet your standards.

1- I agree 2- his brother has nothing to do with this other than precedence. He didn’t go to byu so that school couldn’t give two flips about a mission 3-the shortened mission if it happens is absolutely byu related. This is the university of the church he committed to a two year mission for (or will have). If he quits the mission to play ball at BYU, the church is in a tough spot as to whether they admit him. If they do they will basically give approval going forward to lie to the church about your intentions. That can be a game changer for all males. It essentially will give them cultural approval to quit a mission for any reason. The church’s own website states a full mission for males is two years. By allowing him to quit and play ball at their school, they become all bark and no bite. That is getting others fired up because if allowed, it is a clear double standard. Two years for all males unless you play football really well. If so maybe a year and a huge paycheck too.

I’m pretty sure you don’t get to choose a 1yr service mission. Last I heard those are reserved for those who can not serve full time proselytizing missions. Usually due to medical/mental or other situation-not a football scholarship. of the 60% ish who just up and quit? Yep. Those with med issues different story. If someone who doesn’t go on a mission at all is deemed to be a piece of crap and a disobedient person, then someone who comes home early just to quit is no better. They wasted their parents money and the church’s time. yea I would. If he said he was going to serve two years and basically lied because he is quitting at one year. Yea for the record I think the whole church culture surrounding missions, honorable vs dishonorable release, served two years, bribing kids to go on missions, girls not marrying guys because they are not rm, leaders saying out one side their mouth you have to go and in the next sentence say they missions are optional… the whole game is a complete circus. All this drama over trying to trauma bond boys to the church. It is a dismal failure cuz about half the rms ( you know the only guys worth a damn to the church) are leaving the church after their missions. Whats going on out there? The program is backfiring. The issue is not if he leaves the mission early. Hell half the kids quit nowadays anyway. The issue is if BYU will accept him after he committed to two years and then he up and quits so he can play football. If they allow it (the church is in full control if he actually ends up at byu) then they will have forever changed the culture of missionary service and will essentially be rewarding a return missionary for lying about his intended term of service. I’m pretty sure that isn’t the example they are looking for. Problem is they want this QB so they are gonna play his game and the church will continue to shame those who come home early for other than illness or emergencies. The Shaming will come from mission presidents, stake presidents, bishops, families girlfriends etc. the organization will stand by and allow it to continue because it helps keep some in the field.

This particular discussion is about Ryder Lyons. Brand new pick for qb for byu. Read the very first post of the op.

On paper, the church has not changed its stance on serving all two years for males. Where they change their stance is if their star qb quits his mission to go to byu to play football. If they let him come back after bailing on his mission early- they give their blessing to everyone to do it. Id be fine with that. It is just a double standard and that would be the official beginning of the end for the missionary program as we know it. Everything is optional. I bet elder holland hasn’t changed a bit. He probably still has much disdain for mission quitters.

Another gem from ETB: “The Lord wants every young man to serve a full-time mission. Presently only a third of the eligible young men in the Church are serving full-time missions. This is not pleasing to the Lord. We can do better. We must do better. Not only should a mission be regarded as a priesthood duty, but every young man should look forward to this experience with great joy and anticipation. A young man can do nothing more important. School can wait. Scholarships can be deferred. Occupational goals can be postponed. Yes, even temple marriage should wait until after a young man has served an honorable full-time mission for the Lord. Now, why do I mention this to you young women this evening? Because you can have a positive influence in motivating young men to serve full-time missions. Let the young men of your acquaintance know that you expect them to assume their missionary responsibilities, that you personally want them to serve in the mission field, because you know that’s where the Lord wants them. Avoid steady dating with a young man prior to the time of his mission call. If your relationship with him is more casual, then he can make that decision to serve more easily and also can concentrate his full energies on his missionary work instead of the girlfriend back home. And after he returns honorably from his mission, he will be a better husband and father and priesthood holder, having first served a full-time mission.” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1986/10/to-the-young-women-of-the-church?lang=eng Note the second paragraph…

Just thought I’d throw this out there: ”Fulfilling Your Term of Service Missionaries are expected to serve their full term of service (24 months for elders and 18 months for sisters). Please do not ask your mission president to release you earlier than your assigned release date. Use the provided tools to plan when your stake president should submit your recommendation to help avoid timing issues when you return home.” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/callings/mission/mission-timing?lang=eng

They were going to let you go four months early for school? That’s quite a bit different than a year.

I don’t disagree with you and I think people should be happy. The church’s position is gays shouldn’t marry because they cannot procreate with each other. They are not concerned with the gay couples happiness. I’d think if Adam and Michael can create a world and populate it, a same sex couple can populate one in the afterlife as well. *** correction Jehova and Michael

Common consent- yes. Just because the leaders don’t have the membership give their gratuitous vote in the affirmative, doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t tell the prophet to do it. why post the positive echo chamber stuff? Makes for boring convo if everyone agrees. Makes discussion pointless. Go look at the lds or latterdaysaints sub reddits. They only allow pretty much echo chamber stuff and they are dead convos. At least here you can post negative or contrary info. I know I’m not real fond of the church leadership at most times, but I’m not a real fan of gas lighting, lying, favoritism and mental gymnastics. I do try to post the truth though. Lots of people to include my own TBM family hate any truth that doesn’t support the party line. They are more in line with Boyd k packers concept of not sharing negative info if it isn’t faith promoting- even if it is true.

You said they were gonna let young go several months early. How many months is “several.”

I’m sure it has been worked out for him to not get any blowback at byu for quitting early. Also as I understand it, a scholarship deferral (for mission service) at byu is for two years. Early return requires reapplication. If that is true, then a deal has surely been worked out wink wink. Get “a pass” forgive my phone for it autocorrects at its own discretion