Notatbm

Too bad no members of the church in Africa are righteous enough to become an apostle. Congrats to this guy, but with all the massive growth of the church in Africa I’d think the 1st Pres would be able to find one black guy who is good enough to be an apostle. Guess not.

where did I demand the church waive its defenses? You don’t get to lie about what I said. By your own statements in another threads, no one who has not bern excommunicated or formally resigned can claim to be exmormon. Looks like you are more likely to just say no one deserves compensation for child abuse at the hands of church leaders.. no matter what happened to them. you are attributing things to me I have never said- have a nice night

I did qualify my statement with the condition the victim deserved the justice. Nowhere did I advocate allowing the church to be looted. “That’s cute and all, but when it prevents a victim from getting justice because of a technicality when they actually deserve it, it doesn’t sound so Christlike.”

To include sharing notes of a confession of a sin to a bishop with a third party? That’s what it seems like what he was offering to do

That’s cute and all, but when it prevents a victim from getting justice because of a technicality when they actually deserve it, it doesn’t sound so Christlike. millstones for those who operate that way too

2 Q. So you're saying there was no 3 responsibility by LDS Family Services to keep records 4 of the phone calls they received; correct? 5 A. We did not keep records of those phone 6 calls. My understanding is the helpline is the conduit to either an attorney or a counselor. Once the call taker whether it be a counselor or a lawyer (sounds like both can / do take incoming calls) determines what the call is (abuse allegation or request for counseling services) the call is diverted to the proper place. The counselors who initially take the call of abuse do not ask for names or specifics, just whether or not it is some form of abuse and who the reporting leader is. Call then goes to the lawyers at Kirton McKonkie and the counselor no longer has any involvement. The record of the call to the counselor is then apparently destroyed. This is the final involvement of LDS Family service who run the hotline. legal reporting requirements were not part of 24 Family Services responsibilities. That was a legal 25 responsibility, and those records were kept by the 1 lawyers. If the person who initially took that call is an attorney, then the call gets converted to the privileged notes which are property of the law firm (KM). If the attorney who answers the call finds it is just someone looking for a counselor he/she likely just routes it back to the counselors and goes about his/her day. So…per the deposition notes LDS Family services does not keep ANY helpline notes. That means there are none to look up…ever. Why Ryttling calls KM Law Firm’s privileged records “helpline notes” is frankly amateurish. There is no chance in a million he would call them that in a court of law. KMs privilidged records are not the helpline. The helpline is how you get to the lawyers. LDS family services supposedly cannot even look up if anyone called at all. KM can look up any call that their lawyers are handling because the call itself met the threshold for privileged information. That is waaaay different than....hey a couple in our ward keeps going to swinger parties...can I get a counselor that specializes in sexual deviancy??? KM wont be keeping a record of that one. “6 Q. Don't you think it would be important to 17 keep track of the first report that a bishop or a 18 stake president is making to the Help Line? 19 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. You're 20 just arguing, Counsel. Objection. 21 Q. You can answer. 22 A. We did not keep records at our end as the 23 legal reporting requirements were not part of 24 Family Services responsibilities. That was a legal 25 responsibility, and those records were kept by the 1 lawyers. 2 Q. So you're saying there was no 3 responsibility by LDS Family Services to keep records 4 of the phone calls they received; correct? 5 A. We did not keep records of those phone 6 calls.. That said, you can google this whole situation and see that the statements of these two guys are creating a firestorm of doubt as to who is telling the truth. Like you guys say, they likely are and are just exchanging terminology for the helpline. I can accept that, but one must wonder how in the world a supposedly sophisticated organization can have a hotline system since 1995 and not eventually create some sort of policy manual for the people to work at the hotline to use. According to VanKomen, they dont even keep records of who has been handing calls. There is like five pages of the deposition detailing how no one knows who, when or how many times anyone has done anything. They pretty much don't keep records. pp35 Q. Was it a written or was it a spoken policy 21 to destroy the assignment records for the Help Line? 22 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. 23 A. There is no written policy that I am aware 24 of. A written policy will allow them to define what calls are what, what gets destroyed and what is saved and who has custody of the notes. As of this time, the current “policy” pretty much allows them to destroy every single thing they have so long as they call it a “hotline” or “helpline” note, log etc. Maybe that is by design? If so, that is dishonest. They seriously need to up their game in this department especially in the light of this abuse problem having already cost the church hundreds of millions of dollars in payouts and likely many million$ more to come because too many of our priesthood leaders can’t keep their hands off of children. Seems as if having a quarry to make millstones is in order so when Jesus comes back he can launch legions of rapists into the sea. I seriously doubt any attorney is walking around at Kirton McKonkie referring to his / her cases as helpline notes. My theory is Ryttling uses that terminology so he always has an out….yea they destroyed those notes lol. He by his own conduct on a recording has shown he is dishonest in his presentation as to who he really is. Additionally, how stupid does one have to be to state while being recorded (he was aware he was being recorded) he is going to look through the hotline notes to see if he can find a statement about a confession and forgiveness?? I thought that kind of thing was clergy/penitent privilege?? Stupid thing to say. I’m betting the only truthful guy in the room is VanKomen.

It isn't there. It was part of the whole rytting / vanKomen contradiction discussion where Rytting is stating he will check helpline records while we have another guy representing the church stating the helpline doesn't keep any call records. It was maintained by Pyreaux Rytting didn't lie to Chelsea about checking help line call records, but we have contradictory statements by church representatives in regards to whether helpline records are destroyed or not. This is what the whole controversy is about. Church reps are not on the same sheet of music and they are basically creating a scenario where they can be accused of lying. I understand the deposition itself and also never accused Van Komen of lying. This is what I wrote: "Van komen must be lying in his deposition then… he stayed very clearly the helpline / hotline doesn’t keep any records of calls at all." Basically since the two have made different statements about the helpline notes, obviously Van Komen is lying since Rytting is allegedly not lying. Both of their statements cannot be true at the same time. It was a smart alec comment to describe the absurdity of how church reps contradicting each other. It wasnt meant to be taken seriously but apparenlty some folks need a "/S" tag after such statements because they don't have a sense of humor. Pyreaux thinks the privilege log and helpline call notes are the same thing: This is what a privilege log is: A privilege log is a mandatory legal document in US litigation, often required under Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 26(b)(5)(A), that identifies documents withheld from discovery due to privilege (e.g., attorney-client privilege, work product). It lists key metadata—date, author, recipients, and subject matter—without revealing the protected content. That is not the same as helpline call notes. Rytting should know that and needs to change how he describes things. Also if Rytting were to offer up Privilege log notes he would be opening up another can of worms.

Yes... Rytting is an attorney for the church and does not take hotline/helpline calls (which as we know the notes for are destroyed), he goes around the country writing checks to pay off victims. The problem is he is dishonest in dealing with Chelsea and what he says to her. Perhaps he is confused with what different records and notes are called, but I highly doubt he is that dumb. He knows who keeps records and who doesnt. Ryttings statement about how he presents himself and the "checking" with the helpline is troubling in three respects: 1- In one of the meetings, Paul was asked if he was representing the church as an attorney. This is what he said: Eric Alberdi: Is it fair to say that you’re representing the church corporation as a paid attorney, I assume, in this meeting or not? Paul Rytting: No, I’m a church employee. I have a legal background. My job is with the church’s risk management division. Rytting is a paid attorney for the church. His Linkdin profile shows him continuously in that status for 34 ish years. He is literally a lawyer and has been such since 1991 in Utah according to their Bar records: Utah State Bar ID Number: 6027 Since 1991 He is the DIRECTOR of risk management. Interesting how he calls being an attorney "a legal background" and basically words his response to imply yea he is some sort of para-legal or whatever instead of really being an actual lawyer. It isn't a very honest response and it is designed to take people off-guard because no one trusts any lawyer except for their own. He must have listened to Dallin Oaks talk on duty to disclose AKA lying without lying. As an attorney working for the church he knows darn well his number one mission is to protect the "good name of the church" whatever that may entail. If in his travels he runs into info that exposes the church to liability his mission is to defend the church however that may be done. The notion of him saying he isnt a paid attorney for the church is a total lie. 2- Rytting knows helpline does not keep notes. The Goodrich case is in possession of the church attorneys and as a rep of the church who is out writing checks, he likely is highly educated in the details of these cases as he is meeting with victims and is negotiating settlements. He knows the details of the cases. Why offer to check something he knows does not exist. His job is to write a check and get another mess cleaned off the church's table. As for him thinking Kirton McKonkie's records are helpline notes??? I highly doubt that. 3- Rytting stated he would check with the helpline notes to see if the suspect had confessed to his Bishop... What?? Who does he think he is by offering to violate clergy/penitent privilege by checking a record for a confession and sharing it with the victim? He didnt say he would share what he found, but if he didnt intend on sharing the info, why even say something? The link you provided is a law firms privilege log and all the entries are by attorneys it would seem. None of them show any kind of commentary of a call to the helpline. Sure a call may have come from there, but the log does not say that. Anyway Rytting has probably found he is more effective over the years by presenting this way, but it is patently dishonest how he presents himself. Also looking for a confession to a bishop in the helpline notes??? What business is it of his or Chelsea? Edit: Just adding here re the link and the "Summary of Merrill Nelson's (A) call with SP Kevin Goates" comment. This is not a helpline call center note, it is a record of the call between the stake president and the attorney Merrill..and it is privileged and those are notes belonging to Kirton McKonkie.

Read again what I wrote- By saying “ I don’t know” when you actually do.. that is called “lying”

By saying I don’t know when you actually do.. that is called “lying” I was taught in the church to not lie. I would think the same would apply to temple recommend holding high priests but maybe I’m a bit naive. carefully worded denial comes to mind .. that is the example our prophet set so why not?

Did you read the deposition? It is clearly a confused mess there. The only thing that isn’t confusing is they destroy their records. The rest they just throw jello on the wall to see what sticks. They do not have a policy manual even… since 1995 no written policy. Amateur hour or plausible deniability.

Van komen must be lying in his deposition then… he stayed very clearly thehelpline / hotline doesn’t keep any records of calls at all. He said the kirton mckonkie has records. why Ryttling would say he would check records he knows do not exist is beyond me. read the deposition. You will see what a confused mess that place is. Van komen is probably the only one who knows what goes on there.

Ryttling stated he would check the helpline records. Vankomen was very clear in the deposition the “helpline” does not keep record of the calls. They destroy them. Any call routed to the lawyers (Ryttling office) he assumed they kept privileged records. Ryttling knows there are no records to check at the helpline. His own office is the one with any call records. Vankomen was very clear the family services office is independent of kirton mckonkie and he could not speak for their record keeping. read the transcript of the deposition. Weebles ( thank you) provided that and after reading it you can see how much of a mess this place is. Administratively they are operating in the Stone Age.

Rytting stated he would check the “helpline” records. Vankomen under oath stated he is not only authorized to speak for the church. But that the “helpline” and “hotline” are the same thing and it is a division of lds family services: “ A. No. 21 Q. Okay. Category Number 1 in this document 22 is "The Abuse Help Line, formerly and/or currently 23 at: 1-800-453-3860, [extension] 1911, or its 24 subsequent form/call line...." It designates 25 subcategories. 1 Are you qualified to speak on behalf of 2 this category regarding the Help Line today? 3 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. 4 A. I don't know what you mean "qualified." 5 Q. Are you familiar with the Abuse Help Line? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Were you at all a part of the Help Line's 8 creation? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Okay. When was the LDS Help Line created? 11 A. In 1995 … 5 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with any policies 6 regarding the Help Line that have changed from its 7 creation to 2010? 8 A. I am not aware of any. 9 Q. I may today refer to it as "the Help Line" 10 or the "Hotline." I'm not trying to distinguish 11 anything, but I want to confirm with you that you'll 12 know that we're still talking about this 1-800 number 13 if I refer to it as either. 14 Is that okay with you? 15 A. That's fine. 16 Q. Okay. That is, unless there is something 17 separate in The LDS Church that is the "hotline" 18 versus the "Help Line." It's my understanding that 19 that's not the case. 20 Is that your understanding as well? 21 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. 22 A. The Help Line is the Abuse Help Line that I 23 know of. 24 Q. Okay. Perfect. Has the number changed 25 since the Help Line's creation in 1995?” Anyway… helpline and hotline is same thing. Ryttling knows that.. and he knows no records are kept … the spokesman for the church can omen said so. Ryttling is just blowing smoke.

-Ryttling is still a liar. He told Chelsea he would check helpline records. By the sworn testimony provided by Vankomen, the helpline records would have been destroyed. Ryttling would have known this. from Pp25 of the deposition you posted Q. So you're saying there was no 3 responsibility by LDS Family Services to keep records 4 of the phone calls they received; correct? 5 A. We did not keep records of those phone 6 calls. Vankomen stated in the deposition there were no records of who took calls, details on the calls themselves and that any notes taken would have been destroyed. He even stated there was no policy/procedure manual available despite the helpline being in place for over a decade. pp35 Q. Was it a written or was it a spoken policy 21 to destroy the assignment records for the Help Line? 22 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. 23 A. There is no written policy that I am aware 24 of. so Ryttling is gonna check the helpline records that don’t exist… hmm

#1. I did not cite any article. Maybe you have me confused with someone else #2. here is what I’m talking about: ”In one of their recorded conversations, Rytting told Chelsea that he could check Helpline records, used by Miller to report details of John Goodrich's confession, to see whether her father had ever previously confessed to another bishop to abusing her. But in the West Virginia abuse case against the church, Rytting gave sworn, written testimony in which he said no one at the Helpline keeps records. And another ranking church official testified in a case in Arizona that the records are destroyed at the end of each day. In comments to the AP, the church declined to clarify Rytting's apparent contradiction about whether the church keeps records on the Helpline.” https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/recordings-show-how-mormon-church-kept-child-sex-abuse-claims-secret looks like the church lawyer is a bit of a liar and we know he is being told what to say

Not only has the church never done this (to my knowledge) im surprised they did or were even able to. Church lawyers have testified recently under oath that the church destroys the records of every call everyday at the end of the work day. Obviously the response in this article by the church is a lie… or the church lawyers are in the habit of lying in under oath in court. I mean it not like lying is a new thing for the church. I’m gonna go with them being liars under oath.

I’d say so

I’m not speaking for everyone alive who claims to be ex Mormon. I’m saying people should be able to declare themselves whatever without submitting paperwork to fake authority. If I say im ex-Mormon it doesn’t matter what the church thinks. They don’t pay me any mind (thankfully) anyway so obviously the only interest they have in my membership is a number. Sure they’d rather have the money too as I could fund several wards in Africa, but they gave up even inviting me to tithing settlement for the past few years now. My status as a member who has zero value to the ward and church does nothing but keep the attendance numbers suppressed if they are truthfully reporting them and we all know bishops routinely fudge that data to manipulate budget allocations for their wards.

In Zimbabwe they have been instructed by the prophets wife to pay tithing on what they want to make. first off this talk pretty much teaches the opposite of giving with a happy heart. It teaches to be selfish and manipulate god into blessing you to make a desired income. Second- I wonder how many people have taken this “story” and tried it with success? lastly- it is obviously not true. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9trEPUuN-0 2:25 mark for Wendy’s commentary of George q cannon tithing tale

And with this practice the delta between the reality on the ground and what they tell everyone grows wider and wider because almost no one live to 110 yrs. Thats cool

Oh of course the church can keep people on the rolls as long as they want. What they cannot do is hold people’s identity hostage for a notarized piece of paper presented to someone who only has as much authority as one allows them to have.

Amen… John dehlin is more transparent than the church can ever be.

So the parents make a covenant with the lord and somehow the eight year old who still believes in Santa clause is the one who is on the hook to honor the covenant.? Ok

Sounds like a second annointing. I mean after you get it you can kinda do whatever you want except for kill someone I think not sure since the church won’t discuss it.