Notatbm

It’s not like a marriage. Eight year old kids can’t enter contracts or be legally bound to a corporation when they are baptized. They can (should be able to) leave whenever they want without requiring a quasi legal process to get out for that matter. Heck many of those kids still believe in Santa when they are “covenanting” with the lord.

This is the kind of attitude some teenager have over relationships....girl and boy go out for a while, agree they are "going out" then all of a sudden she doesn't answer the phone, respond to a text, answer the door and somehow even months and years later the boy will tell everyone she is still his girlfriend. There doesn't have to be any communication or administrative process to quit a relationship like that or even the church for that matter. The church needs to quit acting like the scorned boyfriend and quit claiming long-time inactives as members. It isnt a real reflection of "membership."

Pres Nelson said paying tithing will break the cycle of poverty, not that it will buy you financial and temporal returns exceeding your actual income. This isn't financial reliance or breaking a poverty cycle--- it is making a person dependent on an organization for their bills.

Since you mention activity rate, yesterday several stakes had their stake conferences here in gilbert and Mesa. In our stake they used two buildings… both were practically empty. That’s out of ~3k people in the stake roster. People were on Facebook lamenting how no one showed up. additionally, we visited some friends last night to play cards. They knew my wife and I are out and haven’t been to church in ages. They confessed they have not been in three years. Their kids are not going either. Other couple that showed up haven’t gone in a couple years either. Combined that is three former active tithe paying families with a total of 11 kids all not attending and not paying tithing. Only one kid has gone in a mission of the four who are of age to go and that was my kid who was home from his before we bailed. it’s all anecdotal, but I meet more and more people who have just quietly walked away. No fanfare. These people are what most “ex Mormons” are. Still on the rolls, but do not participate in the least.

Pres Nelson told the Africans the following: ”"We preach tithing to the poor people of the world because the poor people of the world have had cycles of poverty, generation after generation," he said. "That same poverty continues from one generation to another, until people pay their tithing." Thats how it will get paid for. Africans thriving economically and once they pay tithing they will magically have enough money to fund church operations there. We all know its BS but hey the prophet said it so it must be true.

Weebles got it

Yea I’m betting it’s no surprise. Concealing some issues which is ok by me. I don’t air my issues to anyone esp at church. I only say this as I have not heard one instance of a service mission assignment out of the chute for a youth unless there are issues of done sort. I have multiple family members in stake presidencies, bishoprics and a mission pres and last time we discussed this there was 100% agreement no one gets an initial calling to that if they are cleared to do a door knocking mission. This came up in a discussion about ysa rm s who did service missions being regarded as not having served a real mission. This happened to a family member last year. anyway I’m sure it’s possible. Maybe the church changed its stance privately but chose to lie about the criteria on the public website. The church has a verifiable history of lying about stuff so that’s a def possibility.

It’s not dishonest if you don’t tell someone something and you had no duty to disclose it. Pres oaks would definitely take that position. if they did give more info that made the church choose to service mission option and they didn’t share same info with you then yea they could be lying. Most people dont want their personal issues aired to the ward. So I don’t blame them. I’m going to assume they are since the church’s stated policy on selection for service mission isn’t a perfectly healthy missionary capable of knocking on doors. There is an issue of some sort. Doesn’t make it bad, just makes it what it is.

Probably due to what the girl has disclosed in her interviews with either bishop or SP. Info family doesn’t know or they just don’t want public so of course they are “surprised.”

I’m in gilbert az. They are still not regarded as real missions as far as I know. People ask arms all the time if they served prostletizing or service missions. Easy way for a young lady in a YSA to find out if a potential mate has some kind of issues before getting involved with them. I mean having issues is how one gets a service mission in the first place.

I agree that would be better. Personally wouldn’t let them go at all. As soon as we let the youth dictate the terms of their mission service control of the church has been lost. He should be made an example of and not allowed to go if this is his plan.

The criteria to serve a service mission is still exclusive to those who have physical, mental or emotional issues. Exceptions are for early return missionaries who are on the mend with injuries/ illnesses or they simply don’t have a whole lot of time left to go back out to door knocking missions.

You need to go back to the 1980s to find anything that would have applied to me. That said we still have church leaders teaching over the pulpit that it is mandatory (Nelson/ Pierson) I had to add this as I just remembered seeing it. Sounds like the church actually endorses pressuring the young men, but in the same article says young men shouldn’t serve because they felt pressured. If that makes any sense. Yea we pressure you, but you shouldn’t use that as a reason for serving. Find another reason while we pressure you… lol can’t make it up https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2012/01/to-the-point/why-is-there-so-much-pressure-on-young-men-to-go-on-a-mission-isnt-it-a-personal-decision?lang=eng

I know what they do. The fact they essentially are trolling for parents who have wayward kids and are trying to present an alternative for the inheritance to go to the church as opposed to the kid. The premise being that you child who is no longer a believer or is just inactive or whatever, doesn’t deserve the inheritance, we do. grief? Well after the yelling and screaming and mother locked herself in their room for a couple weeks crying about her family being destroyed.. it got better. The silent treatment. It then got better and I was only repeatedly lectured about how I am ruining everyone’s lives. My father was the SP so that made it 100x worse. Whole stake knew the SPs son opted out. all my kids went and it wasn’t because I encouraged them. I made sure they all knew they definitely had a choice so if they went it was 110% their problem if they hate it. I also told them I’d support whatever choice they made unlike other people I know. yep… everyone knows if you are not an Eagle Scout and an RM then you are worthless to the church and will never be as successful at anything as you would have been if you had taken the time to go on a mission. I was taught growing up if you didn’t serve a mission you are disobeying the lord. So you know any church leader who would say a person who disobeys the lord is a good person? I don’t used to work in a financial planning firm (just a paperwork processor) and I saw hundreds of families. Many of them who had blown it all and are crying their eyes out about how are they gonna get it back so they can be comfortable. Several were lds. There was even a couple who had spent their entire retirements going on senior missions and now their kids had to support them for the rest of their lives. They were not even seventy years old. Dumbest couple I ever met… they did lots of missions though.

I wouldn’t classify my statements about ministering as complaints. Was going back and forth about using ministers to share info on members. I just mentioned that the workforce is there to do it but no one ministers really. Provided my own example. Again I don’t care if they visit or not. I’ll welcome them in but they need to reach out first and as of nearly a decade now… twice yep friends are good to have. We visit each other in the hospital, help move stuff, watch houses while on vacation, get coffee together, grill steaks and drink beers 🍺. All the stuff good neighbor should do and you don’t have to be a Mormon to be a decent person. Some people think you do tho.

I don’t care what dad said; the fact the church is using his situation as a means of gathering more assets is what the problem is. Last thing parents should be doing is bribing their kids to “stay” in the church. For most people this wouldn’t be a problem as family doesn’t have enough money to make it worth the hassle if you don’t want to be “all-in” so they can have a payday down the road. All this is is a sales pitch to rich Mormons some of which have inactive kids. The church wants their money and found another way to incentivize people to give their assets to the church instead of their one kid who is inactive but is an otherwise good person. when I decided against going on a mission I got bribed instantly with a new car after I got home and college 100% paid for…. After that then I could go into the military but not before. I refused and true to their word I got nothing. funny thing is as big of a turd as they hoped I would turn out, I’m the only kid who has never asked for money. Everyone else has repeatedly over the years according to dear mother. Also as a means of adding insult to injury they paid for most if not all the missions of my nieces and nephews but I was stuck with the bilL for my own kids’ missions. Thats not a huge deal as I turned out more financially successful than the rest of them but I can’t ever be a good person. So… bribery to stay in the church is a terrible thing to do and Jesus does not approve. I’m just glad I didn’t accept the deal as it would always be held over my head. if anything don’t tell ur kids the deal and just leave that detail in the will. They can show up to the trustee with their and their spouses recommend in hand. Without it no money. At least that way no one is staying in order to get a payout. the whole “sudden money” concept you bring up I agree to a point. Maturity has a lot to do with that, but being a righteous mormon doesn’t make anyone better at managing money than anyone else. There are plenty of good righteous Mormons out there who would squander it all … I know some as you probably do as well

Yes. Watch it.

I didn’t say anyone HAD to tell their parents , I said the leaders would do that. there are like ten people in my ward who I have never known and never lived around my family who know one of my family members. I could resign and once one of these people found out, my whole family would know in less than a week without me telling one of em. Then the crap show starts for a year or two. Not worth it.

I imagine it would be less dramatic if the church did it than when the individual does. Families can always criticize the individual as the prophet does like “lazy learner, lax disciple or taffy puller,” but they can’t criticize the church…. That’s apostasy Tons of families have left the church over the whole gay marriage your kids can’t get baptized debacle /fake revelation mess in 2015. They saw how much the leaders really don’t care. I imagine most good Mormons don’t miss families like that anyway….i know my family prob thinks good riddance to any lgbt supporters judging by the way they talked about those “perverts” in the past. anywho- they can clean up the roles or not. If they did can you imagine the sudden growth rate the church would experience with baptisms? Of course soon enough the boomers and those ahead of them turning the magic 110yrs old will be dying off like crazy. I prophesy we would actually see a drop in membership numbers once that snowballs. That said the data can always be manipulated to show what they want.

Ask and ye shall receive: https://archive.org/details/JourneyToBecome

Then why have the ability to excommunicate at all… who are they to say Jesus doesn’t want them in the flock?

I’m betting most don’t want their names removed because the local leaders will tell their parents. This regardless of the member is 25 or 55. I’m thinking most don’t want to get their parents all in a meltdown over empty chairs in heaven etc. my parents are gone now so the only familial drama would be at family get togethers. They like to structure them around church events like a family temple trip and stuff like that. I can see many holding onto a recommend just so they don’t have to deal with insufferable family members or so they can even associate in some families. My family would double down on church stuff if they knew one was out. Just to put the thumbscrews to you. Also some parents are pretty vocal about withholding inheritances if a child ( regardless of age) is inactive. The church has even pushed that tactic in the past. Anyhow there’s lots of reasons. Probably has to do more with dealing with families flipping out more than anything.

No I don’t give off that vibe. I have a bad attitude about the church, but I have never verbalized anything to anyone unless they ask… and no one ever has HT experience for me has been the same as you basically. I have lived in the ward nearly ten yrs.. one visit from home teacher two years after we moved in. Change to ministering and again one visit right when program started whenever that was. Have not seen or heard from anyone since. I do get the annual text from ward clerk for tithing settlement tho so I guess we can tell what they really care about. I don’t really care if someone visits or calls or not. Anytime anyone wants to brag on ministering ( which I have rarely heard- sounds like it’s even more of a failure than HT) I just roll my eyes. I am thankful for the reduction in church from three to two hours, not that I go anymore but I mention anyone talks to anyone else anymore. It’s get in, get out. Activities for the youth have been slashed and at least in our stake no ward parties, dinners etc. there is zero social activity. Makes the local evangelical churches look like stellar successes. They at least have community there. my friend circle is who I work with and a couple vet groups so I’m good.

I don’t know why anyone would be sorry though. Given the times and they are not too long ago the GAs were talking bout this topic like crazy. How do you explain packers talk in the general priesthood meeting ( that’s where the pamphlet came from) or mark petersons guide on how to stop masturbating? I’m just surprised no leader has ever asked you (. Think ur who said that). anyway… check this out… mark e Peterson is wack.. https://archive.org/details/steps_in_overcoming_masturbation_mark_e_petersen/page/n5/mode/1up?view=theater

actually the rank is permanent but you are not a member of the natl Eagle Scout assn .Membership (lifelong) in NESA comes with a $500 fee. I’m wouldn’t join if someone paid it for me since they covered up decades of man/ boy rape. Talk about corruption. Any organization that covers one’s abuse of children deserves to be sued into oblivion if they can’t be shoved into prison cells. oh yea didn’t think of that. They are just like the church, the only time I hear from them is when they want money. well I vote and am proud to be a member of the party.