Notatbm

I’m sorry. I wasn’t aware that you didn’t know paying tithing is a commandment. here is some reading material from the Mormon church which explains the commandment in more detail: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/what-is-tithing gordon b Hinkley ( a prophet of god ) stated: “Nonetheless, the word of the Lord is clear that those who do not keep the commandments and observe the laws of God shall be burned at the time of his coming.” paying tithing is a commandment. If you do not pay tithing (keeping commandments) you shall be burned. now if you want to take up the position that Hinkley is making stuff up and engage in criticizing the lords annointed well then go ahead. He said what he said. Forgot to add this: “A further reward for paying tithing is a guarantee against being consumed in the burning which is to accompany the second coming of the Savior. In the eighty-fifth section of the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord explains that his purpose in tithing his people is “to prepare them against the day of vengeance and burning,” (⁠D&C 85:3⁠) and in the sixty-fourth section he says, “Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming” (⁠D&C 64:23⁠).” https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1979/05/trust-in-the-lord?lang=eng

“Some years ago one of our brethren spoke of the payment of tithing as “fire insurance”; that statement evoked laughter. Nonetheless, the word of the Lord is clear that those who do not keep the commandments and observe the laws of God shall be burned at the time of his coming. For that shall be a day of judgment and a day of sifting, a day of separating the good from the evil. I would venture a personal opinion that no event has occurred in all the history of the earth as dreadful as will be the day of the Second Coming—no event as fraught with the destructive forces of nature, as consequential for the nations of the earth, as terrible for the wicked, or as wonderful for the righteous.” https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/gordon-b-hinckley/need-not-fear-coming/

That scripture is listed in this thread like about five times now. Go read it. It is very clear. I’m taking it to be literal. I may be wrong, but it says what it says.

I didn’t t say or suggest anything. I merely provided a clip of a prophet’s guidance on the matter. In his opinion, one chooses whether or not to be offended. Why would you spend all that time taking apart Zelphs take on things? Thats the easiest video clip to use because it captures exactly what Elder Nelson said. I went to the actual conference talk since you used all that space telling us what prophets teach about burning etc and read for myself what he said about the whole burning thing and an explanation. Nothing there explaining the burning. It was a statement about paying tithing and well.. you heard him. No follow up teaching saying yea it doesn’t really mean burning or whatever. It is a straight up scare tactic. If he didn’t want that as an effect, he should have explained it. anyhoo.. I think it’s funny how a few people have devoted so much time to saying and trying to prove the prophets and scriptures don’t really mean what they say. It seems as if we have god of confusion who likes to trick people if some of y’all are to be believed. bill Clinton could have used some of you to defend the Monica scandal in terms of whether or not oral sex is sex lol.

I have been in four wards and two different stakes with three different stake presidents ( prob five or six bishops) since the essays came out. To my knowledge there has been exactly one mention of the essays over the pulpit and it was my bishop announcing they had been released and to read them with caution. He and his family left the church about five years ago. Don’t know why. That incident aside-I have never heard any discussion of them. I do know that my previous bishop had never heard of them ( three years ago) and I have no idea what he did with that. No fifth Sunday discussions, no fireside’s nada. Like I said-if the church wanted all of us to know about them and learn what they are about, they would make it happen. Steven snow has admitted… well I’ll let him explain. https://clyp.it/gq0cdhf1 Steven snow in case you don’t know who he is: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/leader/steven-e-snow?lang=eng

Suit yourself.. like I said I’m not discussing the polygamy thing further on this thread. I provided the source he demanded. Thanks tho

Here you go. I’m not discussing it here as I’m not going to derail the whole “hell” issue. Start your own if you like: D&C132 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

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They have been out since 2014. If they wanted to discuss them with the membership at large in Sunday school or whatever they have had plenty of time.

You can start a new thread if you like .

That’s a victims choice.. I didn’t think a victim would want to keep being raped or whatever so yea I’ll give you that. Didn’t think of that. The rest of em need to drown. Sorry but I have no empathy for anyone who rapes kids or protects those who do. I was a passerby witness to a juvenile rape victim being discovered in a parking lot stabbed multiple times and naked. She was under ten years old and barely alive. The suspect had been captured by other people and was laughing while cops were on their way. To this day I definitely could kill that guy. It’s been thirty years or so and im never gonna forget that scene. So yea i have zero empathy for child rapists or those who shield them.

It is the biggest waste of time. I can’t count how many discussions were had on freaking video games of all things and then just other bs like byu sports. When there was something of substance the same ole three or four high priests filibuster the balance of the meeting with their mckonkie nonsense. And these guys keep stopping by to invite me to play basketball or whatever. Yea no

Yes-the church is opposed to the exposure. explain why the gospel topics essays have not been presented to the membership essay by essay to explain what they mean, why the church told us otherwise and when they knew the truth? explain why the Nauvoo expositor hasn’t been gone over in detail to illustrate each “viscious lie “ and why it isn’t true explain why polygamy isn’t taught as an enduring doctrine of then church. What women should expect in the celestial kingdoms when their husbands practice it. What are their two choices regarding their participation in polygamy (sustain their husband or be destroyed) thats just a few topics. I’m not opposed to discussing them at church, the church is. I am opposed to suppressing information. Correlation has made it so nothing but the watered down milk can be taught. there is no safe space at church to hold class on any of these topics. Why? Because it exposes the fact the dominant narrative of church history is not true. Just like Richard bushman said. He said that publicly and if he had the nerve to say that to people in a fireside-well that says a lot. Maybe his inner monologue stepped out into public but he did say it. the tanners were right about a lot of things, Esp the salamander letter . Elder

I don’t recall saying exposure is detrimental. M pretty sure my position all along is the church is or at least was opposed to it. I do have a problem being lied to about church history though.

my post specifically identified Non-tithe payers. I did not say no one else wouldn’t be burned or not. The scripture is specific as to who WILL be burned and it is those who do not pay tithing. now will others burn?? Perhaps those who you listed like a child sex predator will burn. I also feel anyone who shields (fail to report to law enforcement) child sex predators from prosecution will burn as well. Anyone who rapes a kid and anyone with knowledge of it who doesn’t turn them in is EQUALLY guilty. Both need to go to the depths of the sea with the millstone hung round their necks. Just like Jesus said. I agree; however, the scripture is also very clear as to exactly who WILL burn and it is those who don’t pay tithing.. like me. I can still be a “good person” otherwise but non payment of tithing is a guaranteed trip to the stake to be burned or whatever “burning” involves.

Yea. I still didn’t say that what hell was. I specifically stated the second coming. I was merely stating the advertiser isn’t off the mark. Unless we expect him/ her to join the church and find out what “hell” allegedly is, the scripture cited is enough to show it is taught that fire is involved with those who don’t pay tithing for example. You turned it into me stating that is what “hell” is. I never said that. In the end it is just an ad. Who cares what they think?

Strange coincidence, but I just visited the latterdaysaints subreddit and this was the first that showed up on my feed. Is this guy in my ward?? Sounds exactly like what our elders quorum was like last time I attended: “I’m so sad that the overall feeling from the men in EQ is to just go through the motions, check a box, and get through the last hour of church. It feels all too often that the lesson was “prepared” the night before, but most likely during Sacrament meeting. And then the same 3-5 people have comments that derail the lesson. I don’t think it helps that there isn’t a dedicated space either. EQ always seems to be held in an overflow, or random room. It makes me feel like the class isn’t important, and maybe that’s a contributing factor to the mood of the meeting. I know that I get out of it what I put into it, and I prepare for the lesson, but consistently I feel like I’m wanting meat, but milk is all that is in the menu. Is anyone else experiencing this? And if so, how are you dealing with it?”

True… my father had to shut down several while in his callings. Since then I can recall a couple getting shut down in wards I have been in. In my current ward someone proposed on the ward facebook page to have a group and after a couple responses ( which were positive) the post was removed. He is the same guy in elders quorum who always has something important to say. I don’t know why the post was removed but I’m sure he was told to. The correlation is the problem. think now it is less controlling than it was even ten years ago. The info is out there now and the church has completely lost control of who consumes it. Members like those in my family are kept in line more by fear ( loss of family acceptance, loss of inheritance, shunning etc) than they are by the church itself.

Same here. It was like taking algebra and my final exam was conversational German. A topic I have never studied. Temple prep was a complete waste of time. Learned nothing and they just talked about how special and beautiful the whole thing was, nice lady, but she told us exactly zero. She and her husband were temple workers at the Mesa temple too. My fiancé and I were both totally blindsided going the first time. So much so, upon leaving I guarantee I could not have even told you what I just covenanted to do.

I didn’t say there was. I said “I can imagine.” I guarantee stuff like that would be shut down if it came to the knowledge of the bishop or stake pres.

So here is elder holland discussing second anointing. Where in the church can I sit down with an authority on the topic without being told to shut up and not discuss it? This is pretty messed up. No wonder they are not accountable to ANYONE. They have a permanent pass so-to-speak… very arrogant

I can imagine a study group back then with the position of seer stone being primary means of translation or Nauvoo expositor not spewing viscous lies would have been targets of closure for sure..imagine that

Like I said… the church teaches what it wants you to know. If they wanted us to know about polygamy in-depth, they would teach it. They are all about information control and they are on record saying as much ( in regards to information control). also- who said I’m mad about what I was or was not taught? Sounds like others are mad about what I feel I was taught, I’m just regurgitating it. I will concede I’m a bit perturbed about temple stuff being such a secret. Had I actually known what it was all about, I never would have come back to church activity. Instead I had to learn about it with an endowment room filled with mine and my fiancé ‘s family. No one walks out of there in that situation. Fortunately my wife is on-board with me now.

Sure.. with “correlation,” the church (1st Pres) has decided what they want the membership to know. In their wisdom they decided it was best to essentially teach the same four lesson groups (new test, old test, b of m and d&c) on a yearly rotating basis. With this practice, a lifelong member (let’s start at age 18 and just work with adults here) from age 18-80 yrs old will have received the same lessons about twenty times. In my lifetime I have never had lessons on polygamy, second anointing (church prohibits discussion on that), temple ordinances, true order of prayer, temple new names and why they are fake, temple covenants etc. now i did take temple prep in the late 80s and it was a 100% waste of time. I was nearly 100% blindsided when i went through the first time. also as far as studying goes, didnt the church prohibit outside study groups at one point? I distinctly remember my father reading a letter from the church presidency over the pulpit. anyway- yea I know what I know or what I think I know based on what I was taught. If you believe what is said about callings and inspiration as to who to call, then my teachers called over the years were either a bunch of liars or they just didn’t know any better. Jesus chose them.

I said the same thing you did. Different words. Maybe you are the one who needs to be honest: “Ensign peak is the church. You can write a tithing check to your ward, your stake, the local gilbert mission, the corporation of… etc. stick it in that blue envelope and it goes on deposit for the church. What’s left goes to ensign peak to be invested in the stock market.”