Notatbm

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/03/22/latter-day-saints-and-holy-week/ “Last year, “Holy Week” was used in a general conference for the first time, according to the corpus, by Elder D. Todd Christofferson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and Elder W. Mark Bassett, a General Authority Seventy. Both noted that Palm Sunday marked the start of Holy Week, using the term in a specific way. … Just 21 years earlier, in 1992, the unofficial “Encyclopedia of Mormonism,” written by Latter-day Saint scholars, many of them BYU professors, stated that “Latter-day Saints conduct Easter Sunday services but do not follow the religious observances of Ash Wednesday, Lent or Holy Week.”

wake up angry today? Believe it or not we can have a civil discussion without you being a jerk. Well at least I can. Try it you blood pressure will thank you. I never said we didn’t discuss that stuff. I said we don’t observe Holy Week. The church said that too if you read the quote. 1- cfr where I said we don’t celebrate Easter. That is a straight up lie. I never said that 2- yea recent shift in language. So you agree with me. I didn’t say we shouldn’t celebrate Easter. I clearly asked why we celebrate it. It is the last day of Holy Week, which is not observed by the Mormon church. why not just celebrate Easter Sunday and leave out all the Holy Week talk? We don’t observe it right? so you want a Mormon Holy Week.. ok why not use a name that isn’t taken and then make up some new religious holiday? The church doesn’t like others using its name and will even sue over it, but they will co-opt some other denominations religious practice, change it all up but call it the same thing. Most likely to try and convince others Mormons are Christians too. Problem is no one is really convinced.

exactly… website says to grow relationship with Christ during Holy Week. Ok well we don’t observe Holy Week (according to the church website) and it isn’t a Mormon tradition, why are we appropriating it and then changing what it means or what it is? Why not call it something else? I’m thinking the church is just trying to get other Christians to look at us and go oh they celebrate Holy Week too. The problem is we really don’t celebrate Holy Week. Why not call it Easter week or something. Anyone who compares the Mormon version with the rest of the world will see it isn’t even close. Im mocking the Mormon position of making a big deal of Holy Week. We don’t observe it, but now we are mentioning palm Sunday all over the place which really never happened and now all of a sudden we are hearing Holy Week mentioned ad infinitum. It is Mormons who are mocking Holy Week. They take the name of a tradition they never really celebrated, change it up to suit their own beliefs and then call it the same name. your last statement is correct- we don’t celebrate Holy Week. If that’s the case, why post Holy Week stuff on the web page? Makes no sense. Call it something else. All it is is rebranding and it’s not really all that honest. It is meant to convey the message to others we are just like them. We are not.

The church website says they do not observe Holy Week. Not that we observe parts of it. It says it is not observed so that obviously means we don’t observe any of it. If that is the case, why is there discussion of it on the website? Why are we celebrating Easter? It is part of Holy Week.

I'm asking because it seems as if there is a shift towards adopting the traditions of the "whore of the World" Catholic church. In the past few years we have started hearing about Palm Sunday and Holy Week at church where previously in my entire 50+ years in the church never heard either really mentioned or discussed other than to mock the false traditions of other apostate religions esp the Catholics. We definitely did not celebrate holy week as evidenced by the Mormon school teacher in Utah making a Catholic kid wash the ash wed cross off his forehead a few years ago. If we had, she would have known what it was. I grew up Mormon and until I got into the Army I had never seen anyone wearing the ash. I politely let someone know they had dirt on their forehead and got a real education at that moment. "Joseph Smith claimed that he had seen both God the Father and Jesus Christ and asked these personages which church he should join. He claimed he was told to join none of them, “for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight” (Joseph Smith History 1:19)." I checked church website and found conflicting info: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/easter?lang=eng "Latter-day Saints conduct Easter Sunday services but do not follow the religious observances of Ash Wednesday, Lent, or Holy Week." And then we are talking about this: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/easter/holy-week So which is it? We do celebrate and recognize holy week or not? Seems as if the Church cannot figure out what the plan is. Each new day is an opportunity to experience the joy and peace that are possible because of Him. Grow Your Relationship with Jesus Christ during Holy Week Each new day is an opportunity to experience the joy and peace that are possible because of Him. Grow Your Relationship with Jesus Christ during Holy Week Each new day is an opportunity to experience the joy and peace that are possible because of Him.

Token? No which thing. They just pick their friends. Well if they have not changed their minds and pick one just because we need a black one then that may be what it is. They would have to tell us that though. The whole notion the lord is picking pretty much with white dudes from the morridor is a bit ridiculous. why would I “deal “ with or care about a 70? They really are not anyone or are the face of the church. this is the face of the church and it isn’t very representative of its demographics except all the white ones. We can do better, but sadly probably won’t.

You are both right and wrong. Here is how I personally am informed: I was raised in an uber / hardliner Mormon home in a connected Mormon family. Connected enough that my father personally knew more than a few apostles (during 70s-very early 90s). Some of those guys are still there. I met pretty much all of them during that time period to include Peterson who now that I know what I know I should have knocked him out. Anyway we all know about all the statements, policies, doctrines etc re Blacks, Native Americans et al. When I was growing up that was taught to us in primary, Sunday school and priesthood. It wasn’t just some thing in a book somewhere- it was open discussion and advocation for the ideas. Dating members outside your own race is where my problem with the church’s stance and attitude started as I was at that point old enough to make some judgements which were informed. I call it attitude because of how the following situations (s) were handled. When I was 16, I invited a Mexican girl from school to a church dance. We were not dating, but were friends. She accepted and she was dropped off at the dance by her brother because her parents would never approve of her going anywhere with a white kid. Anyway, we went in, she sat down with some bishop real quick to get a temp dance card our stake was using at the time and we had a good time at the dance….lots of looks though. She was the only non-white there, but it wasn’t a very big deal as she knew many of the kids and got along fine. Fast FWD to Sunday, by the time sacrament meeting had been over for five minutes I got yanked into a classroom by my mother asking what the deal was with me dating a Mexican girl. I told her the truth and asked how she knew and she named two women who were working the dance the previous evening who came up to her to tell her. It wasn’t to tell her we looked cute or anything, it was to warn/inform her that her son was dating not only a non-member but one who wasn’t white like him. I got sidelined by a bishop counselor and told I had a meeting with the Bishop directly after church so of course I went. The bishop read right out of some manual how we were not to marry outside our own race and that dating is what leads to that. He told me I needed to end the relationship. I got the same treatment at home later on. Parents were pissed. It was even more difficult for them because as Stake Pres, they knew it would get around our stake his kid was dating a non-member and a Mexican. There wasn’t animosity so-to-speak about Mexicans, it was just that you date your own kind is how it was put. Did the commentary surprise me??? Not a bit as I was taught all that growing up. The surprise came when I realized…yea these people believe all this BS and they are gonna force it on me and now I’m the bad guy. These are the "good mormons" who occupy leadership in the church and cut from same cloth as the senior leadership. The girl and I never went out again- wasn’t because of this we just didn’t hit it off. I continued to date mostly non-whites in High School. I didn’t get along /associate with the LDS girls because frankly most didn’t want to date stake pres kid and I hung around a different crowd anyway. I'm sure they had other reasons too- who cares. My parents hated it and always had something to say and it was always about the fact they were not white. They didn’t dis on their race, just that I shouldn’t associate with them. The same kind of talk was all over church publications and we were taught that stuff in firesides etc. It was apparent to me that not only did our prophets have a lot of messed up stuff to say, but even the local leaders practiced it as they had to be obedient you know. After high school I ditched the mission idea and went straight into the military. Parents and bishop went haywire over that too. I was sure to marry some black or Puerto Rican stripper from a club near FT Bragg given my attraction to non whites…yes my mother said that to me. I finished my four years away and came home single. Later married and yea not married to who I was supposed to marry, but it was in the temple and we are still together- happy contrary to what we were told we couldn’t be.. No one said anything, but I know what they thought to themselves and what they believed because they had already demonstrated that my entire life. So, the notion of not choosing a black apostle isn’t just a pet peeve, I know those guys are not comfortable with them because that is the way they all were taught growing up long before me. There is a long list of talks, commentary, books etc with racist commentary. Here is just one example from Thomas S Monson’s book: 1985 book titled On the Lord’s Errand: Memoirs of Thomas S. Monson “In about 1956 we recognized that our neighborhood was dete­riorating. We observed this one Halloween by the nature of the people who came in the guise of ‘Trick or Treat.’ The minority elements were moving into the area where we lived, and many of the old-time families had long since moved away. Seeking coun­sel, I visited with Mark E. Peterson, ... As I mentioned to Mark my dilemma, wondering if it would be unfair for me to move, he said simply, ‘Your obligation to that area is concluded. Why don’t you build a house in my ward?’” Wow- that advice is real cute and what a surprise re who it came from lol. These guys kill me. That comes from Monson and he published it in a book written pretty much exactly when I took that Mexican girl to the dance. That is what the church leadership was and still is. It is the prophet setting the standard. They have avoided picking a black apostle because they don’t want one…period. Id venture to say they have even avoided picking a Hispanic one who is actually brown for the same reason. Call me what you want. When it comes to the church leadership and their past, we can know them by their fruits, the publications they signed off on and their silence over the decades.

I know all that google is my friend. Point is he looks white. From an outside observer just passing by, he and uchdorf could pass as fellow countrymen. Soares looks as Hispanic or Latino as I do and I’m white. blacks far outnumber Asians in the church. No black apostles. my experience of over 40 yrs later is much more drastic. I remember being taught in sun school blacks less valiant, blackface in roadshows and lamanites being portrayed in sun school manuals as lazy. My family even participated in the indian placement program. You know where good white lds families essentially colonize the lifestyle of a Navajo adolescent and teach them to act like white Mormons. Yep we did all that. The guys in charge now??! Some of them were apostles during that time. All of them grew up with that attitude in the church and later probably still believe much of it. The church has a long ways to go.

The kkk regularly targeted whites and killed them for sympathizing with blacks. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/june-21/the-kkk-kills-three-civil-rights-activists

I edited that.. my auto correct /fat finger was off course

Brigham Young was in favor of killing inter - racial couples specifically black/white. You are aware of that right? "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." — Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110 (March 8, 1863) im positive the klan would dig that. I don’t need to make stuff up. We had enough prophets run their mouths.

Read Delbert Stapley’s letter I posted above. He is a real piece of work and he did that on his quorum of 12 letterhead.

Read mark e Peterson’s material. It’s like he was lobbying for grand wizard or something. here’s more: https://ia801508.us.archive.org/23/items/DelbertStapleyLetter/delbert_stapley_Letter_text.pdf doubt your doubts

If the church isn’t willing to have the bishop share the confession in court ( apparently against the law there) who does he think he is to share it with anyone else if it exists? He would be violating the law by disclosing that info to a third party.

There is definitely bias. It is baked into our history and more than one prophet/apostle etc has some published letters, docs etc that would make the KKK blush.

I didn’t say Soares was a German. I said he looks like one

Are you kidding? Those guys all live for being stuck in endless church meetings and missing out on most of their families lives. That’s how they get picked…we found our yes man. Being totally church broke.

soares looks just like uchdorf lol. A German. Asians are approx 1% of lds church. African descent is about 5%. Brazilians represent about 8% of the church. One could say Soares is Hispanic I guess so perhaps he can also represent all Hispanics if they will have him. He is white as heck though. Anyway, asians are over represented and blacks are not represented at all. Not surprising since Mormons discriminated against black families until recently. Kinda goes along with the demographic of the Q15. They are not ready for a black guy in there yet despite likely many very qualified people available.

I would agree with you on there being plenty of qualified souls out there. You may be right in that there is no one who is well spoken enough to represent the Lord or business savvy enough, or well from Utah, Arizona or Idaho lol. Anyway The problem is the picks tend to be confined to their friends for the most part. There is no excuse at this point to not have at least a couple apostles who look like some of at least the larger minority demographics. Of course the Lord did award dark skin to the less valiant and they would turn white once they became righteous. At least all the current apostles were taught that so go figure.

Too bad no members of the church in Africa are righteous enough to become an apostle. Congrats to this guy, but with all the massive growth of the church in Africa I’d think the 1st Pres would be able to find one black guy who is good enough to be an apostle. Guess not.

where did I demand the church waive its defenses? You don’t get to lie about what I said. By your own statements in another threads, no one who has not bern excommunicated or formally resigned can claim to be exmormon. Looks like you are more likely to just say no one deserves compensation for child abuse at the hands of church leaders.. no matter what happened to them. you are attributing things to me I have never said- have a nice night

I did qualify my statement with the condition the victim deserved the justice. Nowhere did I advocate allowing the church to be looted. “That’s cute and all, but when it prevents a victim from getting justice because of a technicality when they actually deserve it, it doesn’t sound so Christlike.”

To include sharing notes of a confession of a sin to a bishop with a third party? That’s what it seems like what he was offering to do

That’s cute and all, but when it prevents a victim from getting justice because of a technicality when they actually deserve it, it doesn’t sound so Christlike. millstones for those who operate that way too

2 Q. So you're saying there was no 3 responsibility by LDS Family Services to keep records 4 of the phone calls they received; correct? 5 A. We did not keep records of those phone 6 calls. My understanding is the helpline is the conduit to either an attorney or a counselor. Once the call taker whether it be a counselor or a lawyer (sounds like both can / do take incoming calls) determines what the call is (abuse allegation or request for counseling services) the call is diverted to the proper place. The counselors who initially take the call of abuse do not ask for names or specifics, just whether or not it is some form of abuse and who the reporting leader is. Call then goes to the lawyers at Kirton McKonkie and the counselor no longer has any involvement. The record of the call to the counselor is then apparently destroyed. This is the final involvement of LDS Family service who run the hotline. legal reporting requirements were not part of 24 Family Services responsibilities. That was a legal 25 responsibility, and those records were kept by the 1 lawyers. If the person who initially took that call is an attorney, then the call gets converted to the privileged notes which are property of the law firm (KM). If the attorney who answers the call finds it is just someone looking for a counselor he/she likely just routes it back to the counselors and goes about his/her day. So…per the deposition notes LDS Family services does not keep ANY helpline notes. That means there are none to look up…ever. Why Ryttling calls KM Law Firm’s privileged records “helpline notes” is frankly amateurish. There is no chance in a million he would call them that in a court of law. KMs privilidged records are not the helpline. The helpline is how you get to the lawyers. LDS family services supposedly cannot even look up if anyone called at all. KM can look up any call that their lawyers are handling because the call itself met the threshold for privileged information. That is waaaay different than....hey a couple in our ward keeps going to swinger parties...can I get a counselor that specializes in sexual deviancy??? KM wont be keeping a record of that one. “6 Q. Don't you think it would be important to 17 keep track of the first report that a bishop or a 18 stake president is making to the Help Line? 19 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. You're 20 just arguing, Counsel. Objection. 21 Q. You can answer. 22 A. We did not keep records at our end as the 23 legal reporting requirements were not part of 24 Family Services responsibilities. That was a legal 25 responsibility, and those records were kept by the 1 lawyers. 2 Q. So you're saying there was no 3 responsibility by LDS Family Services to keep records 4 of the phone calls they received; correct? 5 A. We did not keep records of those phone 6 calls.. That said, you can google this whole situation and see that the statements of these two guys are creating a firestorm of doubt as to who is telling the truth. Like you guys say, they likely are and are just exchanging terminology for the helpline. I can accept that, but one must wonder how in the world a supposedly sophisticated organization can have a hotline system since 1995 and not eventually create some sort of policy manual for the people to work at the hotline to use. According to VanKomen, they dont even keep records of who has been handing calls. There is like five pages of the deposition detailing how no one knows who, when or how many times anyone has done anything. They pretty much don't keep records. pp35 Q. Was it a written or was it a spoken policy 21 to destroy the assignment records for the Help Line? 22 MR. MALEDON: Object to the form. 23 A. There is no written policy that I am aware 24 of. A written policy will allow them to define what calls are what, what gets destroyed and what is saved and who has custody of the notes. As of this time, the current “policy” pretty much allows them to destroy every single thing they have so long as they call it a “hotline” or “helpline” note, log etc. Maybe that is by design? If so, that is dishonest. They seriously need to up their game in this department especially in the light of this abuse problem having already cost the church hundreds of millions of dollars in payouts and likely many million$ more to come because too many of our priesthood leaders can’t keep their hands off of children. Seems as if having a quarry to make millstones is in order so when Jesus comes back he can launch legions of rapists into the sea. I seriously doubt any attorney is walking around at Kirton McKonkie referring to his / her cases as helpline notes. My theory is Ryttling uses that terminology so he always has an out….yea they destroyed those notes lol. He by his own conduct on a recording has shown he is dishonest in his presentation as to who he really is. Additionally, how stupid does one have to be to state while being recorded (he was aware he was being recorded) he is going to look through the hotline notes to see if he can find a statement about a confession and forgiveness?? I thought that kind of thing was clergy/penitent privilege?? Stupid thing to say. I’m betting the only truthful guy in the room is VanKomen.