Notatbm

If you re-read jays question to me he specifically quoted me and in that quote I make the correction about the GA/ GO thing after you ( I think it was you) corrected me. If he thinks brad is a ga after that then it’s on him. Whether it’s a ga or not, he wanted to watch the video so I sent him the link. Nothing in my response to him is dishonest. Try again…. Or go do the work and read through all my posts to make sure you are right.

Are you saying I have not EVER admitted I have made an incorrect statement here?

That does not mean Mormons celebrate it. We never have until these last couple years and the lame attempts at doing so. I’m not denying it is biblical. The church’s own statement says Mormons do not observe Holy Week. Palm Sunday is part of Holy Week. “Latter-day Saints conduct Easter Sunday services but do not follow the religious observances of Ash Wednesday, Lent, or Holy Week. ”

You can always quit reading and responding to my posts if they upset you. As far as the honest or dishonest claim goes. Just because I don’t factor in every nuance doesn’t make a statement a lie. You need to make better efforts to prove me a liar instead of calling me that for not broadcasting every nuance. Nuance can go on ad infinitum. prove me a liar and I’ll concede it to you and I believe we have engaged in that manner in the past. Just know any statement that I have ever made here and was then asked for a cfr I have provided it. True I can misunderstand things and after discussion in some instances I have corrected or retracted my statement (s), but I do not knowingly lie in my posts. that said if you consider yourself a true Christian you best refrain from throwing out accusations of lies when out of all the times I have been accused of that on this board I do not recall a single instance where the accuser has been correct. I am open to correction in that assertion, but I believe every single instance of being accused of lying it was not true. I cannot say the same of some other posters here. Have called out a few for lying about statements I have made and in many instances do not reply or defend their statement. Some continue to do it without proving their position after being asked to. I’m pretty sure if I was repeatedly posting false material, making false statements and outright lying I would have been banned by now.

Celebrating Palm Sunday is a tradition.. one Mormons never celebrated

Yes sir. Never had a beef with the Catholics

Oh the Mormon church and Catholics have been reaching out to each other. I do not deny that. The fact what was taught about Catholic Church and their creeds is what this whole thread was about. The Mormon church never did anything to celebrate Easter other than Easter Sunday services. All the rest of it was what everyone else did. The Mormon church does not observe Holy Week, yet now in the past few years they are talking up Palm Sunday and Holy Week. That was never a thing. The Mormon church is slowly taking up the creeds and traditions of the other churches which have been long taught are corrupt and false.

Yep you are spot on. Mormon stories and radio free Mormon podcasts also have extended discussions about it where they point at church doctrine, practices etc to explain where Brad gets his material and opinions. Very informative. The show hosts are /were lifelong Mormons and even a few apologists so their opinions and feedback are based on experience with being members of the church. https://radiofreemormon.org/2022/02/radio-free-mormon-233-the-brad-wilcox-imbroglio/

I never said the church bought the letter. They did take possession of it after it was purchased ( like u said) and once the contents of it got public, oaks had to go out and calm the masses and explain how it was validated as authentic. The prophets got suckered. Thanks for the reference. I may use that another time. I learn something new every day.

If you have the pope, that is the Catholic Church. Unless you think the rank and file members run things there. If the devil owns the pope, what does that then make the Catholic Church? By extension it makes it a servant of the devil. I don’t believe that, but that’s what it means. the newest member of the q15. He went on his mission in 1989 which means he went thru the temple prior to the 1990 change. I am older than he is so I was taught that too. Was the prophet (s) wrong to have taught that?

All the more reason to discount what I say… even if it’s true. gee who else said something like that?

I don’t recall any nuance at all. I have heard this repeatedly in church and in my home ( father was the stake pres) for my entire adolescent life. Seminary, Sunday school, priesthood all in the morridor. I have heard the whore of Babylon verbiage even as recent as the time the Rome temple being dedicated. Now unless all my leaders and the prophets and the temple script were all teaching false doctrine then so be it. It is more of a case of the church trying to play nice since it has realized it has so few friends in the world. When Mormons can team up with Catholics to discriminate against gays re “ non-traditional marriage” lol or petitioning courts to rule that churches don’t need to report child molesters then it is in the best interest of the church to quit talking trash about others. If you doubt my sincerity that’s on you. I just like to make sure people know how it is/was and my opinion on it. I suppose I can question your honesty or motivations in your posts , but I find that doing that just distracts from the discussion. while I was growing up Jerald and Sandra tanner were often called out by name and maligned because they openly criticized the church. It was usually said their criticism wasn’t true because they were anti-Mormon and plug your ears la la la. Lo and behold all these years later they have largely been vindicated. The church just engaged in name calling to deflect from the discussion. the church would have done well to listen to them re the salamander letter. Instead the church got sucked up in that mess despite a whole slew of “prophets” being involved and looked like a bunch of circus clowns once the truth came out. Should have at least listened. There probably would have been two less murders in salt lake that year if they had listened to the tanners. now we have a prophet who was the face of the church for that mess who went public to explain the validity of the letter to the members and then later had to admit the church was wrong and they got scammed. discernment?? I think not

starting at about 37 min thru 45 ish brad is a pretty good speaker and is very popular in Utah in terms of live speaking engagements. This is at a tri-stake fireside g for youth so this is probably in a stake center ( largest of the regular meetinghouses we have) and likely was full so anywhere from 5-700 people. I find most church speakers and topics mind numbing boring but he can keep a crowd awake and off their phones. id listen to the whole thing. edit/add commentary: many will say brads comments don’t reflect the beliefs of the members. Possibly, but one must consider when making that statement that he has been giving this talk for years and to thousands of youth and young adults. Their leaders are there too. If it’s soo controversial and no one believes that stuff how come no one reported him till this video came out?? well two answers: 1- he was reported and no one had a problem with it 2- he wasn’t reported because talking like that is /was not controversial.

What about the temple script re the popes? Mckonkie didn’t just make this all up out of thin air. It was taught and continued to be until 1990. Long enough for the entire q15 to be taught and believe it to include the newest member. Think they all changed their mind overnight?

1- cfr where I said we don’t celebrate Easter. That is a straight up lie. I never said that

It's kind of your MO in your posts but as far as this thread is concerned, you implied that the church teaches or believes that the Catholic church is the "whore of all the earth" spoken of in the scriptures when we don't. We have had leaders who associated the two in the distant past, but the church has refuted that. It was taught in Mormon doctrine (the book), I was taught this growing up and I have heard it over the pulpit numerous times .. the great and abominable church. Everyone knows … or at least we did then it was the Catholics and many times they were called out specifically. I recall it being brought up probably even more with all the child sex scandal. That was evidence it was truly the great and abominable church. Gee what other church now has the same problem?? Hmm what does that make it? Do you remember this teaching?: “LUCIFER: Then with that enmity I will take the treasures of the earth, and with gold and silver I will buy up armies and navies, popes and priests, and reign with blood and horror on the earth!” Was the church teaching false doctrine in the temple??? Name one church that also has the proper authority, ordinances, and so on that can facilitate one’s trip to the celestial kingdom… name one besides the Mormon church that can get you there… hint all churches other than the Mormon church are false. We have always been taught that. Their blessings, baptisms, weddings etc are all just good ideas performed without any authority from god. Hence the playing church thing. Thats what Wilcox was saying. You can go see for yourself the video is out there. funny how he apologized for his shuck and jiving imitation of a black person asking a question, but I don’t recall him apologizing for saying all the other religions are playing church…similar versions of the talk have been presented by him for several years to the youth and ysa.

So what am I lying about? Re the half truth comment.

Yea kinda like the recent garment change to the wife beater style. Last year women who had exposed shoulders became pornography in the eyes of men and now all of a sudden not.. using hot weather as an excuse. Not that I mind the change but just goes to show the standards are bs and in many respects so are many of the leaders.

Oh my bad… he was a “general officer” in a position of very high influence with the youth… esp juvenile male priesthood holders. that said he did apologize, but only for the racist commentary. The church was cool with the rest of his diatribe. The whole playing church thing is not really all that controversial in Mormon circles. Mormons have forever maintained that no other churches ordinances are valid in the least and I think that was the point Brad was making. In fact all other churches are an abomination and are in apostasy.

Hi Tony yes in some respects Mormons observe similar practices. Here is the difference: the Mormon church believes they are the only religion on the face of the earth with any authority actually from God… to include the Catholics. Everyone else is “playing church” according to a recent statement by an lds general authority. as for Holy Week / Palm Sunday etc. this has never been a Mormon thing till just a few years ago. In fact in my lifetime I have seen various practices of different churches mocked in church meetings. Ash Wed used to get interesting commentary usually something along the lines of it being silly. anyway, this recent shift in the usage of Holy Week /Palm Sunday is just an effort to make the church look like the rest of Christianity. They want to be respected worldwide like the Catholic Church and others as if this will do it, but it won’t change things.

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2024/03/22/latter-day-saints-and-holy-week/ “Last year, “Holy Week” was used in a general conference for the first time, according to the corpus, by Elder D. Todd Christofferson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and Elder W. Mark Bassett, a General Authority Seventy. Both noted that Palm Sunday marked the start of Holy Week, using the term in a specific way. … Just 21 years earlier, in 1992, the unofficial “Encyclopedia of Mormonism,” written by Latter-day Saint scholars, many of them BYU professors, stated that “Latter-day Saints conduct Easter Sunday services but do not follow the religious observances of Ash Wednesday, Lent or Holy Week.”

wake up angry today? Believe it or not we can have a civil discussion without you being a jerk. Well at least I can. Try it you blood pressure will thank you. I never said we didn’t discuss that stuff. I said we don’t observe Holy Week. The church said that too if you read the quote. 1- cfr where I said we don’t celebrate Easter. That is a straight up lie. I never said that 2- yea recent shift in language. So you agree with me. I didn’t say we shouldn’t celebrate Easter. I clearly asked why we celebrate it. It is the last day of Holy Week, which is not observed by the Mormon church. why not just celebrate Easter Sunday and leave out all the Holy Week talk? We don’t observe it right? so you want a Mormon Holy Week.. ok why not use a name that isn’t taken and then make up some new religious holiday? The church doesn’t like others using its name and will even sue over it, but they will co-opt some other denominations religious practice, change it all up but call it the same thing. Most likely to try and convince others Mormons are Christians too. Problem is no one is really convinced.

exactly… website says to grow relationship with Christ during Holy Week. Ok well we don’t observe Holy Week (according to the church website) and it isn’t a Mormon tradition, why are we appropriating it and then changing what it means or what it is? Why not call it something else? I’m thinking the church is just trying to get other Christians to look at us and go oh they celebrate Holy Week too. The problem is we really don’t celebrate Holy Week. Why not call it Easter week or something. Anyone who compares the Mormon version with the rest of the world will see it isn’t even close. Im mocking the Mormon position of making a big deal of Holy Week. We don’t observe it, but now we are mentioning palm Sunday all over the place which really never happened and now all of a sudden we are hearing Holy Week mentioned ad infinitum. It is Mormons who are mocking Holy Week. They take the name of a tradition they never really celebrated, change it up to suit their own beliefs and then call it the same name. your last statement is correct- we don’t celebrate Holy Week. If that’s the case, why post Holy Week stuff on the web page? Makes no sense. Call it something else. All it is is rebranding and it’s not really all that honest. It is meant to convey the message to others we are just like them. We are not.

The church website says they do not observe Holy Week. Not that we observe parts of it. It says it is not observed so that obviously means we don’t observe any of it. If that is the case, why is there discussion of it on the website? Why are we celebrating Easter? It is part of Holy Week.

I'm asking because it seems as if there is a shift towards adopting the traditions of the "whore of the World" Catholic church. In the past few years we have started hearing about Palm Sunday and Holy Week at church where previously in my entire 50+ years in the church never heard either really mentioned or discussed other than to mock the false traditions of other apostate religions esp the Catholics. We definitely did not celebrate holy week as evidenced by the Mormon school teacher in Utah making a Catholic kid wash the ash wed cross off his forehead a few years ago. If we had, she would have known what it was. I grew up Mormon and until I got into the Army I had never seen anyone wearing the ash. I politely let someone know they had dirt on their forehead and got a real education at that moment. "Joseph Smith claimed that he had seen both God the Father and Jesus Christ and asked these personages which church he should join. He claimed he was told to join none of them, “for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight” (Joseph Smith History 1:19)." I checked church website and found conflicting info: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/easter?lang=eng "Latter-day Saints conduct Easter Sunday services but do not follow the religious observances of Ash Wednesday, Lent, or Holy Week." And then we are talking about this: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/easter/holy-week So which is it? We do celebrate and recognize holy week or not? Seems as if the Church cannot figure out what the plan is. Each new day is an opportunity to experience the joy and peace that are possible because of Him. Grow Your Relationship with Jesus Christ during Holy Week Each new day is an opportunity to experience the joy and peace that are possible because of Him. Grow Your Relationship with Jesus Christ during Holy Week Each new day is an opportunity to experience the joy and peace that are possible because of Him.