Vanguard

Ok. When you said "How does somebody justify that to themselves?" it sounded like you were referring to someone in particular since CA Steve made no mention of someone on this board.

I agree. In fact, I wouldn't condemn someone to death based on text that was two weeks old. Has someone condemned another on this message board? If so, could you link me to it?

Yup. There has to be SOMETHING different though - just don't ask me what it is. ; )

I too would like to know how we can experience the HG differently after we've received the ordinance? For starters, I can't speak of it first hand because I don't remember what the experience was like before the ordinance (I was born into the faith). Secondly, I'm sure there are converts here who might speak to this difference though I suspect the wording they would use is identical to how many non-LDS Christians would describe the experience - an experience they've had all of their lives.

Love this one sentence. I have for many years believed we don't have explanations for anything but rather descriptions. Giving me a formula for gravity is simply a mathematical way of describing what we perceive and what we anticipate and not an explanation of anything. I've also wondered if this position of mine is easily refuted. ; )

My first thought about what to do with the modest amount of money each month was how much I could help those within my social circle (including my own family). I think there would be a lot of great good my wife and I could do. My immediate 2nd thought was that after a few months of this I would start rationalizing how the money might be better spent for my own material wealth (trust me, I can rationalize this!). Before I knew it, my tithe monies would be a checkerboard of well-intentioned donations and such, along with lots of new debt that I would incur from having used the money to 'upgrade' my car and purchase a new pop-up tent trailer... ; )

Now that we can agree on. ; )

According to his opinion, yes.

I guess according to his own criteria (i.e., when the First Presidency and Quorum speak in unity) this is just his opinion. ; )

I commented on this a few posts ago. Are you advocating literally any standard in public prayer? Or should there be some modicum of formality in public forums? If you got up at the pulpit and started by saying "Thanks Big G for the blessings" or some such, you bet I would judge you. ; )

From reading your other posts, I don't think you mean when we pray in public, correct? I too wrestle in my personal prayers how to address Him (hmmmm, why do I capitalize 'H'?) and have found it better to drop the formal language for my own style. I do not believe this should be the case in public. What say you?

Ha! This reminds me I frequently think on having to adjust if I were ever to leave the faith and start wearing something other than garments. I have worn them for sooooo long I don't know how I would make such a transition. ; ) I am continually racked (might be too strong a word) with second-guessing myself when I disrobe about where I can and can't place my unlaundered garment. I imagine I will always wrestle with this.

Yes. It's noteworthy that I couldn't find anywhere on the podcast where time frames are discussed (I ended watching a good portion of it ) nor was any time frame mentioned in Newsweek. It does give off a 'feel' that this was recent although she has been out of the faith for almost 6 years now (she reported this in the podcast).

I too don't care enough to listen to the lengthy broadcast. I'm going only off the Newsweek article when I say it's simply a bridge too far for me to accept that leaders (plural!) told her she "must only marry a Black man to prevent her children from being cursed". And in response to her questioning this position that they said "yes, because your seed is cursed. If your seed mixes with their seed then your children, your husband won't be cursed, but your children will be. Do you want that for your family?" Good grief. Now, could they have made what I would consider insensitive remarks? Yup. It happens all the time. And I believe in some of those cases, the member's sensibilities are so wounded that they confabulate (or lie?) about a version of what was said that is nowhere close to what actually happened. And yes, I believe this also happens all the time. Too add: My caveat is I guess it's possible that this could have happened 30+ years ago though still highly disturbing.

To each his own. I would not feel comfortable calling my loved ones who have left the faith and wish no ill will against the Church, apostates. And especially not to their faces. It appears your loved ones in similar circumstances might appreciate you using such accurate descriptors of their leaving the faith or if they were too sensitive about the term, you could at least clarify you use the term solely for informational purposes. ;o Former members?