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I am uncertain what is meant by a spiritual witness, truth, or truthfulness in this regard. Certainly the Book of Mormon contains truth, but truth is not a possession it exclusively owns. A. W. Tozer's powerful book, "The Pursuit of God" contains powerful spiritual truth as well. Ditto for a hundred other books I could name. Tozer was an important early leader in the Christian and Missionary Alliance. My uncle was president of the Christian and Missionary Alliance. However, I never had a desire to join that church. I love the works of St. John of the Cross. Wonderful truths therein, but I have never desired to become Catholic. I think a witness of the truth is not the same as a desire to join.

I have a special place in my heart for the Moravian Church. Are you familiar with them? I would join them in a heartbeat if I could. Dr. Lakin is buried on the Liberty University campus. He was very close to Dr. Falwell. I met him numerous times. He was an excellent natural preacher. He could have you laughing one minute and almost crying the next. Too many folks are too certain about too many things, many of which are not essential for salvation. We are all pilgrims, journeying through our lives, migrating to find a place that makes sense for us. We are like kaleidoscopes, turning and turning the thing until we find a design that makes sense for us. I think that congruence in life is when we finally find that design. You are a good man. I am grateful for your wisdom and kindness to me over the years.

I don't mean to ask something that is out of line with this thread. Lately, I have been doing a lot of studying of Buechner's concept of the gospel as drama, comedy, and fairy tale. I also am investigating Tolkien's concept of faerian as myths that have meaning and much more. In those studies I have come across the idea of the paracosm. A paracosm is a world invented by a child with its geography, customs, languages, morals, etc. There is a whole new field of psychology devoted to the paracosm in gifted children, not as an escape mechanism, but as the work of a creative and highly intelligent child. There are those who believe Narnia is such a world. I wonder if there has ever been a study of the Book of Mormon world as a possible paracosm of Joseph Smith? The little we know of his childhood indicates he might have been such a child and could have created the world through visions created by his own fertile mind. I am not interested in suggesting this as the origin of the world of the Book of Mormon. But I am indeed interested in knowing if such an explanation as the paracosm has ever been proposed in the case of Joseph Smith. Thanks so much .

Hi My Friend: I grew up inside the hardcore prophetic movement of Darby and Scofield (1917 edition). As a boy, I was never home during the summers because my dad and I were constantly traveling to the great Bible conferences held during the summer all over the eastern United States. For my LDS friends, Bible conferences were like rustic resorts for Fundamentalists to vacation over the summer, receive morning and evening Bible teachings from many of America and Europe's great conservative Bible teachers (prophets in a forthtelling sense). The music was wonderful, softball was plentiful, fishing, and always a kids camp connected. One of my favorites, by the way, was Letourneau Christian Camp in Canandaigua, New York, on Lake Canandaigua, very close to the area of the founding of the LDS church. My dad was right in the middle of it as a prominent Bible teacher. He was very academic about it; not very hell-fire and brimstone, but more into the Greek, Hebrew, and geographical significance of it all. I remember the massive charts, showing in minute detail what would happen when (not by date, but by event). This was premillennial, pre-tribulational prophecy at its most influential for the thinking Fundamentalist. I often stayed with my dad in the adult conference center instead of in the kid's camp. I enjoyed the music and teaching of the adult camp. Since my dad was a speaker, we got to stay in the nice speaker's cabin, where each speaker had a private bedroom, and they all stayed up real late exchanging theories and debating the importance of Meschek and Tubal. My dad wrote little pamphlets, which were all the rage back then. "Why I am a Friend of the Jews," "In Times Like These," "What is the Fate of the Jew?" "Is Israel Palestine?" and on and on. At sixteen years of age, I preached my first sermon at our church, which was semi-Mennonite and semi-pre-millennial (Mennonites in those days were amillennial). My sermon was on Ezekiel 38 and the influence of Gog and Magog. I was well-trained! Or at least well-exposed. That is why I have always been so interested in Woodruff's Desert or Sunset Revelation. It is prophetic teaching at its finest. It is interesting that the Brethren did not find it to be official revelation for the Church. If he had the revelation a few years later as president, it might have been a revelation, and the church's view of eschatology might today be according to that revelation. Who knows? I say all this to inform my friends about the world in which I grew up where prophetic teachings were the norm. Daily routines were amended depending on what was happening in the Middle East. That movement has lost its potency in the Evangelical post-Fundamentalist world of today. Of course such prophetic interest remains, especially in independent non-denominational Bible churches and conservative Baptist circles. It has nowhere near the influence today that it had in the forties and fifties and then in the late sixties and seventies. I worked for Jerry Falwell, Sr., in the late seventies when he was moving towards Evangelicalism and away from his Southern Fundamentalist roots. As I remember, he never had the passion for prophecy that some of his preacher friends had. I hope this simple historical review of what it was like to grow up in the heart of one example of the prophetic movement in the United States, England, and Scotland is interesting for those who may not be familiar with it.

I never have quite understood this witness of the Book of Mormon concept. I have read the Book of Mormon. I believe in many places therein can be found a wonderful testimony of Jesus Christ. I also believe He is the Savior. But those have never led me to desire to join the LDS Church because of them. I could say the exact same thing about the spiritual books, witness, and testimony of scores of other Christian groups, but I have never had an interest in joining any of them. I do not understand the correlation between the witness and desire to join the church when I see the same witness in many other churches. I would be church-hopping every time I got inspired by something written by their founder or leaders. Not sure I understand. Best to all.

I can only speak for where I live, which is in a small village in the state of Chihuahua in Mexico. I believe that the church does not grow in our area because of the constant turnover of the missionaries and the isolation of the existing members. Rural Mexico is incredibly social in all of its interactions. It is also extremely familial in its social structure. In virtually every case, one of a pair of missionaries is Anglo. Right or wrong, that is a negative. On the other hand, many of the missionaries who are mestizos come from central Mexico - the big cities or more highly developed areas. They clearly (to me at least) are not comfortable up here in the boonies of rural northern Mexico. There is deeply rooted prejudice both ways here in Mexico - both north and central/south. They each have not-very-nice names for each other. The cultures vary greatly. Combine that with the rapid turnover (every six weeks or so) of the missionaries, and there is no way to build relationships - an essential element for winning converts or doing anything here. Of course, here we also have more than a century of bad relations between the Anglo Mormons and the Mestizo Mexicans. I am uncertain that will ever go away. The LeBarons do much better here in that regard. If anything, over time it may be getting worse. The more I type, the more I think we have some unique factors here. Anyway, that is my two cents.

I agree with 3DOP. Can you be more specific about your concerns? I am 77 years old and can testify that crazy things have been going on in the world my entire life and for millennia previously. My father was an avid and knowledgeable preacher on prophetic themes throughout the 1950s and 70s. He believed fervently that then current events indicated the end times. Well, respectfully, he was wrong. Tell us more about your concerns.

Isaac Haight had a heart attack in Thatcher, AZ on his way from Mexico to receive his second anointing (I think it was to be in the St. George Temple). I have understood that the Second Anointing is an ordinace rarely used anymore. I don't know if that is true.

I think this phrase is using the modern definition of truth, is it not? Truth as something correct, the real facts about something. I don't think this definition of truth correlates to 'emet in Hebrew or to aletheia as in the New Testament or veritas (to a lesser degree) in Latin and on and on. In modern times we have distorted the idea of truth as held by virtually every ancient (pre-modern) language and cultures I have reviewed. Therefore when we place our modern word truth on any older construct -the Arabic name of God as truth, for example, we err. Almost all preachers use modern constructs for ancient constructs. "I am the way, the truth, and the life." Do we really think of the meaning of any of these three terms as used in Biblical times? Is the modern word truth, the best word for Hebrew-influenced Greek aletheia? I think not. I think faithfulness, sincere, steady, consistent, revealing that which was hidden, would all be better words than truth.

Maybe dumb questions? Does the Holy of Holies have a handicapped ramp for access for the president? Does only the temple in SLC have a Holy of Holies? If the president receives a revelation or a vision there, is that recorded and/or made public? If so, is there any record of a vision or revelation having been received there? Since there are photos and a thread here, I assume it is ok to ask these things.

Years ago, when I first met Elder Steven Snow, the historian of the church, I didn't know who he was. Rick Turley, Jr. introduced me to him. I didn't know the protocol, and he was about my age, so I said "Hi Steven, good to meet you!" The church members in the little group, looked at me with a look I interpreted as horror. I didn't realize he was a General Authority and Historian of the Church. Way back then, I probably still would not have known how to address him. I learned real quickly that he was "Elder Snow." After years of association, I am still not sure who gets the title "Elder" and why. Elder is sometimes used in the Mennonite church. There it is an honorific title, a sign of highest respect, not something ever used for a 19 year old youth. I find it interesting how we use the same words and often mean something different by them. So then the person listening interprets what the other says through their own meaning. The whole conversation may go south! Ha!

In Old English, the word truth and tree come from the same root word. I really like that. I think being on the journey to truth means someone is grounded, steady, and reliable, yet open to movement. It may have little to do with being "correct." The word truth in English didn't start to mean "correct" until the mid-16th century. Then it took years to come to the meaning it has today. Its earlier use was as a verb or adverb- something we do or are; not something we have. That is the theme of my book. When I truth my wife, I am like a tree with her. I like that metaphor. The Greek New Testament was heavily influenced by Hebrew. I think then, the meaning of truth in the New Testament is very different from how we portray it, using our modern concept of truth. It would be totally foreign to a Hebrew, Greek, or even Arabic culture. Different from Maya, Swahili, Hausa, and early Chinese - pre-Mandarin. I have a question. I love some of the comments already on this thread. I am ignorant on the policy for quoting or using comments from the forum. Will someone please enlighten me? A phrase like, ""It makes space for grace." That is powerful. My inclination is to ask permission of the poster. If I receive permission, then how do I attribute? Or is doing that simply a"no-no"? Or???

Thanks my friend. Great summary. Truths of Faith is a chapter in my little book. Take care.