Stargazer

I was checking out the comments to a Ward Radio episode on YouTube channel (Jews & Mormons Have More in Common Than You Think (feat. Shabbos Kestenbaum from PragerU)). A question came up in the comments as to the lack of a Hebrew language Book of Mormon. I became curious, since I had seen photos of such a translation many years ago. I checked out the Church website, but there isn't a Hebrew translation available there online. I researched further, and apparently the Church did produce a partial translation into Hebrew in the 1980s (the one I saw) but it wasn't generally available and is no longer in print. At some point, by contract with the Israeli government, the Church agreed not to produce a Hebrew translation. I asked Bing CoPilot about this. I asked "is the book of mormon available in Hebrew?" Turns out the answer is YES! In modern Hebrew, anyway. But it isn't available from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but from an Israel-based research institute, the Institute of Ancient Studies. It overcomes copyright restrictions by using the 1830 and 1920 editions. The website for the Hebrew translation is: https://www.bookofmormoninhebrew.org/? Here's what CoPilot said about it: The Book of Mormon has been translated into Hebrew, with a modern translation completed between 2018 and 2024 by professional Israeli linguists. Modern Hebrew Translation The most recent Hebrew translation of the Book of Mormon was completed by a team of four professional Israeli linguists over the years 2018–2024. This translation is based primarily on the 1830 English edition of the Book of Mormon, with some reference to the 1920 edition, and was published in Israel by the Institute of Ancient Studies, which operates independently of any church or religious organization. This translation aims to make the text accessible to Hebrew-speaking audiences while maintaining fidelity to the original English text. Historical and Scriptural Context The Book of Mormon was originally written in a form of ancient language and translated into English by Joseph Smith in the early 19th century. Hebrew translations are significant because the text was intended to eventually reach the scattered remnants of Israel, including Jewish communities, fulfilling a prophetic mandate described in the Book of Mormon itself . Hebrew, being the native language of over 5 million Jews and the national language of Israel, is therefore a critical medium for this purpose. Purpose and Audience The Hebrew translation is intended to reach Jewish readers who are familiar with Biblical Hebrew, as modern Hebrew alone may not convey the scriptural tone of the original text. Previous Hebrew translations existed but were of lower quality and are now out of print. The current translation seeks to preserve the scriptural style, grammar, and poetic elements, making it suitable for study and religious reflection. ----------- It's not very expensive, actually, but add in shipping and the price shoots up like a SpaceX rocket.

I don't think that your point does still hold. But I, like you, see only through a glass, darkly. So we disagree but only on an obscure point. I shan't fuss over it. But you remind me of something I heard asserted on a YouTube video about how Jesus's atonement covered not only the sins we committed in mortality, but that it retroactively reaches back to what we might have done wrong in the pre-existence as well. And adds another layer to the disciples' question to Jesus about the man born blind, whether his blindness was caused by sin he committed before he was born. We usually use that passage as a proof-text for the pre-existence, but it seems it could also work for forgiveness of sins committed in premortal life.

Good question. It was their choice. In the pre-existence the devil and his angels chose to rebel against the Father whom they knew to be the Father, whom they beheld as the Father. The Sons of Perdition who rebel against the same knowledge in mortality chose the same fate. "Done for" is my crude English term for what is expressed in DC 76 as "[He] saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment". They chose. Maybe. Have you ever done something while asking yourself "Why am I doing this? This is wrong!" I remember getting very angry at someone once while at the same time my "inner self" was telling me something like "Oh, good grief, cut it out you idiot!" I'm not exactly sure who that "inner self" was, but I have the suspicion my anger was being directed by my "natural man." And the "inner self" was my eternal spirit reaching out to control that man. I'm usually very self-controlled, but sometimes, very rarely, I lose it. But even then I try to cover it up. I'm probably not even close to addressing what you wrote here.

Another cool video from The Hu! This one is all in Mongolian (with Cyrillic subtitles), but who cares? The English lyrics can be found in the video's description, but I've reproduced them below the video here. Lyrics in English: Father of mine, you used to tell me with no words You used to sit in silence, watching the distance You used to let me see the hardships of life on my own You were aware that I would see much in the times to come Dear father of mine, you used to teach with your gaze You used to feel unease for arrogance may lead me to failure Yes, you were well aware that a man has to overcome all of life You wanted me to become a man of kind heart and good will Mirages, mirages, mirages, amidst mirages is there, dear father of mine Mirages, mirages, mirages, amidst mirages is there, dear father of mine Whilst watching the far horizon You come, flying, unto my mind By wind, you send me your love, whispering Whilst watching the far horizon You come, flying, unto my mind By wind, you send me your love, whispering You used to remind me often with your deeds You used to say to me to love this chaotic world You used to show us how to cherish the mothers You were assaying to make us seethe bliss is beside us You did have the valiance to rush into fiery fires You made companions to perceive the path of trust Staying true to your espousal, you learned the true love Holding your child, you tasted elation after all the griefs Mirages, mirages, mirages, amidst mirages is there, dear father of mine Mirages, mirages, mirages, amidst mirages is there, dear father of mine I have rejoiced the bliss of living in my lifetime I am grateful to be blessed with a long life Lingering on my children, as the time to depart draws nigh My heart is troubled for those who stay to live in this world I, your father, albeit departed to heaven, will keep loving you, my children Shall ye spend the Living bliss to the fullest of love I, your father, albeit departed to heaven, will keep loving you, my children Shall ye spend the Living bliss to the fullest of love I, your father, albeit departed to heaven, will keep loving you, my children May ye spend the Living bliss to the fullest of truth I, your father, albeit departed to heaven, will keep loving you, my children May ye spend the Living bliss to the fullest of love I will always be grateful for the boundless Living bliss Let us meet again in the supreme blessing in our next life

From our Bible Dictionary: The Amalekites were "An Arab tribe that lived in the desert of Paran between the Arabah and the Mediterranean and at one time seem to have ranged as far north as Mount Ephraim (Judg. 5:14; 12:15). The Amalekites were at constant war with the Hebrews from the time of Moses (Ex. 17:8, etc.) till their power was broken by Saul and David (1 Sam. 15; 27:8; 30; 2 Sam. 8:12), and their last remnant was destroyed by the Simeonites (1 Chr. 4:43)." Deuteronomy 25:17-19 -> "17 ¶ Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt; 18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God. 19 Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it." The Amalekites were apparently just as evil as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. You might want to review the Wikipedia article on this tribe. They were rather like Hamas and that ilk. And this didn't happen in a vacuum. I seem to recall a story in which God sent a flood to destroy all of humanity except for the ones who boarded Noah's Ark. Those dying in the flood included men, women, and children, as well as animals. When you consider what will be going on during the tribulation leading up to the Lord's Second Advent, with all the natural disasters attendant upon many people (see the Book of Revelation), how many men, women, and children will perish then? I remember that something like a quarter million people were killed in the tsunami of 2004. Some have called the earthquake that spawned that tsunami an "act of God." Jesus coming to softly proclaim the everlasting gospel does not contradict the distressing events in the Old Testament.

Finally found it! Thanks! It took me awhile, though. Sometimes the church website search facility is not very helpful. What Pres. Snow said is not what I would call "doctrine" however. I still feel that the idea of Mormons getting their own planet is a caricature.

And so could I. But while I can concede there might be a chance for someone in the Terrestrial kingdom to advance to the Celestial, they could not ever reach the highest level of the Celestial. This is because that level requires eternal marriage, and having not been sealed to a spouse by the Holy Spirit of Promise before the resurrection, and as Jesus said, there is no marriage in the resurrection, so they cannot be exalted. This refers to Sons of Perdition, and in this case I think you are definitely wrong. They cannot repent. Here we're talking about those who sinned not in ignorance, but in knowledge The Lord says of them: Wherefore, he saves all except them—they shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. [D&C 76:44] This makes it sound quite final.

You, me, and our Bible Dictionary know what ministering means here. Neither you, me, nor our Bible Dictionary know what ministering means there. Again we come to the limitations of the English language. By the time one inherits a kingdom of glory, one has a perfect resurrected body, a body that is designed for the kingdom one has inherited (see 1 Cor 15:40-42) and one is well past repentance. Repentance is for those still living in faith. Once one is no longer separated from one's pre-existence memories, and has been resurrected, one is living in knowledge. One has nothing further to repent of. D&C 76 gives an incredibly detailed layout of the three degrees of glory, and there is not one indicator there, or anywhere else in scripture that one can promote from a lower kingdom of glory to a higher one. This is particularly true of the Telestial Kingdom. In D&C 76:112 it says of them: 112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end. I emphasize the word "cannot." It doesn't say "they may not come," it says "they cannot come." They are not merely forbidden, they are unable. The sentence terminates with finality: "worlds without end." That seals the deal. There is no advancement. These are those who rejected the atonement of Christ, and suffered in their own resurrected bodies the punishment that Christ suffered. How can they then be promoted to the kingdom that Christ ministers to? You are a compassionate man. And you want for the sky to be limit for all of God's children. So do I, actually. No child left behind and all that. And there are many others who agree with you, including past general authorities, who were of a similar opinion. But none of them presented their hope of a universal exaltation as doctrine. I have read the scriptures, and they do not support that hope. In the 2023 General Conference, President Oaks said: "We know from modern revelation that 'all kingdoms have a law given' and that the kingdom of glory we receive in the Final Judgment is determined by the laws we choose to follow in our mortal journey. Under that loving plan, there are multiple kingdoms—many mansions—so that all of God’s children will inherit a kingdom of glory whose laws they can comfortably 'abide.'" [Kingdoms of Glory] <- that's a link to the talk... President Oaks says "That word abide, so common in the scriptures, means a secure placement."

I think I can say that the only persons God has given up on are the Sons of Perdition. He makes it very clear that they are done for. Ultimately, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. And even the inhabitants of the Telestial Kingdom will enjoy a glory that we in mortality cannot comprehend; they will be ministered to by the Holy Ghost; and they will be servants of the most high.

It depends upon context. English is one of the world's richest languages, vocabulary-wise, but it doesn't always have different words for different connotations. For example, Greek has two words for love. We only have one. It has two words for punishment. We only have one. So we (and by extension God as well) have to make due with context. And sometimes we have to use a cop-out called a "term of art," by which we use a word in a restrictive sense rather than a universal sense. This is a word or phrase that has a precise, specialized meaning within a particular field or profession. For example, in legislation in order to avoid repetition of a list of items, the list itself may use a defined "term of art" to include only a particular set of items, with only those items in the list being applicable. In the Revised Code of Washington (state), in the Title dealing with Fish and Wildlife, Section 77.08.030 creates a term of art called "Big game". The section lists the 11 species that are covered in the F&W law as "big game." Raccoons are not included in the list, so are not "big game." I point this out because in D&C 19 the Lord explains "eternal" and/or "endless" as terms of art, as follows: 6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment. 10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore— 11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment. 12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment. Alma was getting a "taste" of the eternal/God's punishment that could be meted out to him if he did not repent. But sometimes "eternal" does mean without end. In D&C 76:112 concerning those who obtain the Telestial Kingdom: And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end. The term "worlds without end" seems to mean "eternal" in the sense of never ending. Above my pay grade as well. I only know what the scriptures and revelation say. The only persons you can forgive are those who have done wrong to you, or trespassed against you (as stated in the Lord's Prayer).

LOL! Thank you! I just finished reading that chapter online, and it was very enlightening. But the bit you quoted isn't there. I tried to track down the print version of the manual here at the house, but we don't have it. I'm not saying that your quote is spurious -- I think that they must have left that part out in the online version. I was a convert at age 14 (the only one in my family at the time - my brother joined four years later), and attended church for only 6 months before we moved across the country, where I didn't know where church was. It wasn't until we moved again after 2 1/2 years, this time to England, that I started attending again. So I missed out entirely on Primary, and most of the youth program, what was called Mutual Improvement Association (MIA). There was much I didn't hear!

You say you understand this, but if you think Moses 1:39 overcomes the rest of scripture, you are definitely not thinking straight. How can you imagine that everyone will eventually be exalted, no matter what they did? That sounds exactly like what Lucifer told Father, that if He let Lucifer do the job, he would get everyone back, and none would be lost. Because Lucifer would send them to earth, take away their agency, and force them to obey at all times, with no need for a Savior. This is what God told Moses: 1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor. 3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down; [Moses 4:1-3] Doctrine and Covenants 76 spends 119 verses describing the degrees of glory, and what it takes to get into each degree. Why bother, if both the Telestial and Terrestrial glories will eventually be empty, with all their denizens moving to the Celestial? It sounds as if you have been studying the Book of Nehor. Not the one here calling himself The Nehor, but the actual Nehor, who during the first year of Alma as the chief judge of the Nephites, was brought before Alma for murder. He had been teaching exactly what you have taught here. Alma 1:2-15 tells the story, but here's the pertinent verse: 4 And he also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life. This is false doctrine. The Father's mission is indeed to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. And all will receive immortality through the grace of Christ. But some will refuse to be redeemed by the blood of Christ (D&C 76:82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus). These will therefore suffer for their own sins and obtain the glory of the Telestial. Some will be redeemed by faith and repentance through the blood of the Lamb, but having not been valiant in the testimony of Jesus, will obtain the glory of the Terrestrial (D&C 76:79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God). And some, having been valiant in the testimony of Jesus, will obtain the glory of the Celestial. How can someone in the Telestial Kingdom, who refused to be redeemed by the blood of Christ, be raised to the Terrestrial Kingdom, with those who accepted that redemption?

The potential is not still there. In D&C 76:28-38 it is made very clear. One cannot change one's mind about it. One can never be trusted ever again. 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come

I wanted to quickly address something else about this. The thing is, we find ourselves sometimes handicapped by the otherwise useful language we use day to day. Consider Matthew 25:46... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. What is rendered here as "punishment" in English covers a lot of ground, but the original koine Greek has two words for the concept, one of which might be felt to be far less harsh. The Greek word Matthew doesn't use here is τιμωρία (timōria). It means retributive, vindicatory punishment. Punishment whose purpose is to satisfy the grievance or honor of the one wronged. The benefit flows to the punisher. The word Matthew does use is κόλασις (kolasis). It means corrective, disciplinary punishment. Punishment whose purpose is the improvement, reform, or correction of the one being punished. The benefit flows to the recipient. As I see it, for what it's worth, kolasis seems to correspond more closely to the Lord's intent -- even if the punishment is still something not to be desired.

No, but in desperation I used them at the last. What the heck were you using for search terms? Or maybe I was using Bing and Google works better? You wouldn't mind telling me where you found this? JoD perhaps? I'd like to read the entire piece this comes from. Since I'm clearly incapable of creating a usable Google search on the matter. And I do thank you for showing this to me -- I find this passage profound and hopeful. Mainly because I have thought about what those of us who are to be exalted might be doing before we reach that level. Or even what those of us who are not counted among those to be exalted, but inherit the Terrestrial kingdom might be doing for their work. When I, as an amateur astrophysicist, look upon what is going on in the universe, I wonder if Father's more advanced children are out there guiding the expansion of the universe, shepherding the stars along their paths, or ensuring that nebulas are coalescing in their proper form so as to form earths upon which other of our Father's children may dwell during their mortal probations. As written in the Book of Moses 1:33-39: 33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. 34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many. 35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. 37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. 38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. 39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.