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Stargazer

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About Stargazer

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    Observing the heavens since 1951.
  • Birthday 10/03/1951

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    Male
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    West Sussex, UK
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    Religion, science, technology, computers (especially computer programming), foreign languages!

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  1. Dictionary definition of Misogyny: "the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls. It enforces sexism by punishing those who reject an inferior status for women and rewarding those who accept it." All I've said here is that I believe that more women will be exalted by God than men, and if so, it makes plural marriage in the Celestial Kingdom a necessity. I've cited scripture in support of this belief. You disagree with my belief. You don't like my belief. You've been railing against it quite emotionally. But you have not provided any references (scriptures) that de
  2. Yes, to the bolded words. If I understand correctly, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches similarly. My understanding of scripture (including LDS scripture) leads me and others to say that His suffering was not all on the cross; as to the spiritual and physical agony, the cross, while splendidly obvious to us as a source of pain, was only a small part. It is a fact that thousands of others were crucified by the Romans. Yet none of them, and not even all of them combined, were in as much agony as Christ was, even before the first scourge was laid on him, pre-crucifixion
  3. DC 19 contains some of the most profound scripture about the Atonement that has ever been written.
  4. If you were to accept the "Skousen Challenge" (yes, I just made that up) and follow the chain of logic he presents in the scriptures, might you then perhaps see some sense in it? Just listening to or reading the explanation (as rongo did above) makes it sound like just one more possibly tall tale. When I first heard the theory I was open to at least follow along, and when I did, I saw the merit in it. As has been said by others, though, we're not going to fully or perhaps even mostly understand how the atonement works. At this stage, it is enough to accept it, and obey.
  5. And symbolically accept the marks of his crucifixion in our own flesh, don't forget that.
  6. Don't feel too bad. Nearly all of our brains are broken to one extent or another. This year I will turn 70, and by golly my brain is just as broken as it has always been, but thankfully no more than that. It's the rest of my body that seems to be heading down the trail of ultimate brokenhood. Treasure your youth -- it will not always be there for you!
  7. I was acquainted with the late Elder Bruce R. Porter of the Seventy (we served as FTM in the same mission, and later as branch presidents in the same stake, both in Germany), and in a private email conversation with him about the atonement, not long before he died, he wrote: "I believe there are many different, yet correct, ways to look at and think about the Atonement. Whenever I read any explanation of the Atonement, I am inclined to think of it as one more way of looking at and illuminating the Lord’s infinite and eternal sacrifice, which is like a jewel to vast for us to comprehend fu
  8. That's an excellent question. I would say that the Earth did not fall, but was brought down. It did not choose, so there is no repentance and no atonement needed. But it is subject to what is wrought on it. Analogous to a person driving on the road obeying the traffic laws, when suddenly a drunk driver coming the other way swerves into the person's lane and there is an accident. Not the obedient person's fault, but nevertheless he or she is brought down by the sin. We read in the Pearl of Great Price, Moses 7:48 48 And it came to pass that Enoch looked upon the earth; and he hea
  9. Because that is the culmination of the Atonement, the last little bit. He must die to complete the act, and He must be seen to die, and be seen to suffer. But the primary suffering had started while in the Garden of Gethsemane, and continued until He had suffered it all, whereupon He said "It is finished." The crucifixion itself was a mosquito bite compared to the real suffering of the Atonement: DC 19:18 - Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not
  10. Skousen explained this in a very detailed way in an appendix in one of his books. I think it was The First 2,000 Years. Maybe. I don't have my copy with me. He also explained it in a talk given to a missionary conference, and this was distributed later as a cassette tape. I was very intrigued by it, and so I followed his scriptural "trail of evidence," in the end concluding that his case for this idea was sound. Whether it is 100% correct or not? I don't know, but it's the best explanation of the workings of the atonement that I have ever read. I suspect that we won't fully understand the aton
  11. It's an easy mistake, so may I gently point out the difference between tenet and tenant? tenet - An opinion, belief, or principle that is held as absolute truth by someone or especially an organization. tenant - One who pays a fee (rent) in return for the use of land, buildings, or other property owned by others. (by extension) One who has possession of any place. Synonyms: dweller, occupant (computing) Any of a number of customers serviced through the same instance of an application. e.g. multi-tenant hosting (law) One who holds a propert
  12. Good, you can assume the mantel of disgusting man, then. Off topic, I love your signature as it stands today: Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith This quote featured in an issue of my mission's monthly publication. I was quite inspired by it, and remain so. "...when brother Pratt went back last fall, and published the Revelation concerning the plurality of wives; it was thought there was
  13. Thank you for reminding me of this. There is a beautiful article written by Elder Bruce R. McConkie that is very clear about it: The Salvation of Little Children It is also made clear that the same applies to those born into bodies that never become accountable (e.g. Downs Syndrone). I don't know why this escaped me in my previous response. And of course, as exaltation requires eternal marriage, that will be something handled in the process as well. As Elder McConkie writes in the referenced article: But there's nothing here that suggests that God will somehow arrange
  14. My nephew isn't active in the church, and the only thing that I ever heard as to reasons was that he likes wine too much. But I'm pretty convinced the wine thing is a result of his inactivity, and not a cause. Also his father's dropping out of activity didn't help, either. The thing about sin leading to falling away is largely a cop-out in my view. Oh, absolutely. But had he run into the questions FAIR answers before he saw the FAIR answers, would that not have led down the same path? I think many of us operate in a kind of cocoon, where we avoid hard questions out of discomfort
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