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california boy

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    I like to listen to others that share different beliefs than me. I try to respect those differences, but will also challenge those beliefs to sort out truth from dogma. I feel that people have often let religious dogma overshadow the basic message of Christ. I adhere to simple truths. Love God, love others, let God judge and worry about my own faults.

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  1. Gladd, which is the closest the LGBT community gets to some kind of organization does provide a style guide that everyone could follow if they wanted to. This is the preferred way to refer to a person attracted to the same sex. I didn't see anything in the article that shows support for using the term SSA or Same Sex Attraction as the preferred usage for someone who is gay. Could you please quote what you are referring to? From Freedom For All Americans From Wikipedia While not everyone may agree on not using SSA or Same Sex attraction, (the LGBT community is not a single entity like the Church is) it is clear that some do find the term offensive. Shouldn't the Church error on the side of not offending? Can you really argue that the term gay is not the most common way to refer to someone who is attracted to someone of the same sex? Would you be offended if people used the term Brighamite to refer to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Or would you prefer the more accepted term The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I won't have any problem with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints using the term SSA or same sex attraction as soon as the Church starts using the term OSA or Opposite Sex Attraction to refer to those that suffer from that condition as the preferred way of referring to straight people.
  2. I also avoid using the name Mormon. I don't let the behavior of the Church determine my behavior.
  3. This is a really pet peeve of mine as well. The Church can't use the word gay. Church leaders and many members feel compelled to use the term Same Sex Attraction, a term that many in the gay community find offensive. It is not some kind of disease that needs to be cured. And some of the posters that are the most adamant about not using the term Mormon are the worse at respecting how others wish to be referred to. It reeks of hypocrisy.
  4. When I was in DC about 7 years ago, the Library of Congress had a first addition Book of Mormon that you could look at. You had to first get a library card. Then they brought it out, gave us white gloves and we could leaf through it. They said it was the most popular book to be shown and they were thinking about putting it on permanent display. This would take it out of the publics hands and no long be available for personal viewing. Not sure if they have done that or if you can still leaf through the book personally. Has anyone else done this??
  5. Thanks for your thoughtful response. I always appreciate your comments. In many ways, I feel like the Church was the crucible that made me who I am today. I still appreciate all of the experiences and wisdom that I got attending all of those years. To a large extent, it is why I participate on this board. I am interested in how members deal with issues that come up. I also feel like I can offer a different point of view to many of the issues, especially LGBT issues. I hope that I am able to at least offer something to think about. I don't comment a lot on most of the threads because my point of view isn't really needed. But I do read many of them.
  6. It is a little scary thinking that the people living on the earth now were the best of God's children. Makes you wonder what earth would have been like if Lucifer had not led a third of the worst spirits away from earth.
  7. I am going to tell you the full answer since I think you and maybe some others reading this thread really want to know. It might have been enough for me to live in a non sexual relationship with someone I love. Lots of married people don't have sex. When I came out to my wife, I thought a real possibility would be for us to stay together, but just have separate bedrooms and live our lives a little more independent from each other. We talked about it, but she felt like we both needed to move on. I thought she was much braver than I was for coming to that realization. I think she made the right decision. I also had long talks with the stake president and my bishop. I actually asked them this very question. Could I live with another gay man as just roommates. They both told me that wouldn't be acceptable. They used the very example you brought up, but they said that it would be improper for a boyfriend and a girlfriend to live together. The same would be true with a boyfriend and me. I asked them how they felt about me living with a woman. They said that also would be inappropriate. I think a large part of this had to do with the fact that I have always had pretty high profile church assignments. At the time I was on the high counsel after having served in a bishopric. I was well known in my stake. Living with another person that I was not married to didn't work for them. I was released from my calling and disfellowshipped. In all fairness to them, I think this was such a new issue for both of them that they really were trying to figure this all out for themselves. Maybe things would have been different now. But eventually, I probably would have still made the same decision. It is the right decision for me. At that point, I really couldn't see the upside for staying in the Church. Even if I did as they asked and lived my whole life alone, where would this all go? They told me I would be fixed and be able to marry a woman in the next life. That had NO appeal to me whatsoever. So I made the decision to break ties with the Church. I started living my own life and let God decide what should be my judgement. And I am at complete peace with that decision, now, more than ever. Eventually I was excommunicated.
  8. I am not countering peoples experiences at all. Nor am I trying to refute other's experiences. Not sure where you even got this idea. But clearly you are reading things into my post that I certainly did not post. I am only saying that I too have similar promptings by the Spirit. It is a blessing one can have either inside or outside the Church. You don't have to be a member of the Church to get promptings of the Spirit. If Church members believe that, it is a myth. I was interested in hearing what others felt like the benefits are for someone to leave the person he loves the most, break up that family, be celibate for the rest of their lives with no intimate relationships at all. Surely you can see how being with the person you love is a MAJOR blessing in life. So finding out what others think is the benefit of giving up that blessing was of interest to me.
  9. Really? This is a serious post? You want me to go toe to toe with someone so we can determine exactly what?
  10. I have never heard Icky gay sex used as a common term in the gay community that I am involved in. But the LGBT community is diverse. So I can't speak for everyone. I just though you were being demeaning. Glad you cleared up your intention of using that phrase.
  11. Thanks for sharing you perspective. I think all of those reasons are good reasons for you to be a member of the Church. Ironically, I don't really think I am giving up any of those blessings. I do feel that God is pleased with the path that i am on. I know this might sound weird to you, but I still feel the Spirit in my life and feel promptings from him. Is it every moment of the day? No. But there is that constant feeling of having a relationship with God. And I also believe that the biggest blessing I have ever received is my partner that I am sharing my life with.
  12. I truly wish you the very best and hope you find real happiness in your marriage. I tried doing the very thing you are embarking on. I was married for over 20 years to someone who has always and still is a friend. For me, that relationship always seemed fake. It was a relationship based solely on the promises made by Church leaders that I would eventually become straight. Probably the wrong thing to build a marriage on. And I just felt like I was constantly lying to people who always assumed that I was straight. They would tell me how much they loved me. But in my heart, I always wondered if they knew I was gay, would they still love me. So I could never really trust anyone's love. For me, that falseness became too big of burden to carry. I hope you have better luck.
  13. Well that is the thing. I know why those that are straight strive for the Celestial Kingdom. The idea of being eternally married to the person you love the most and growing to become like God is pretty enticing. What I haven't figured out is why a person who is attracted to the same sex should strive for the Celestial Kingdom. Icky gay sex stuff as you put it is NOT what I am talking about. I know this might surprise you, but probably the least important thing about my relationship with my partner is sex. I would think the vast majority of people who have been with their partners for any significant amount of time would say the same thing. What do you think exaltation for someone who is only attracted to the same sex look like to you? I personally have no idea. What the Church teaches doesn't really look like something I would even want if I did die having given up all intimate relationships with my partner and a faithful member of the church. Just what is at the end of the tunnel for me?
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