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california boy

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Everything posted by california boy

  1. Where does my partner who I can't imagine being separated from in the eternities fit in to your scenario? Are all gay relationships just thrown out as not being important? Am I expected to find some woman to share eternity with? Sounds like a completely messed up "heaven" constructed by straight men who want to spend eternity with their wives with no regard for other relationships. Maybe you or anyone else can explain how I might want to be a part of this "Plan of Happiness" that doesn't seem all that happy to me.
  2. Yet you can’t seem to see when you personalize the thread directed at me. Somehow that is different when you do it. My comment to you was this Maybe it is you that should have been born gay. Women’s breasts do nothing for me. She could have been naked and I would have no problem lecturing right in front of her. You took my comment as personalizing it when clearly I was trying to get you to see your interaction from a different point of view. It was you yourself making your post personal by giving a personal example of how you reacted to a students cleavage. I was suggesting that cleavage does not have to be sexual at all. If you were gay, women’s breasts are not sexual at all. From that you leap to being a victim and it is my fault that I am using your personal experience as being too personal. Should I have not pointed out that the posts you used were 5 to 10 years ago??? Starting a thread 5 years to 10 ago is not the same as you constantly posting about LGBT issues monthly. Any hypocrisy here? Or am I just to ignore your accusations that are distorting what I wrote I have said my piece so I will leave it at that.
  3. Wait. You dredge up posts of mine from over 5 years ago most of them even 10 years ago and when I call you on it all the sudden it becomes personal? You are the one who claimed you are not obsessed with LGBT issues yet you can’t name a person who has started more threads on this issue in the past 5 years?
  4. But you have no problem walking around in front of your children showing off your breasts?
  5. Can you tell me the last time I gav started a thread about any LGBT issue? Because I don’t think I have started a thread about LGBT issues in over 5 years. Can you point to anyone who has started more threads on LGBT issues than you in the last 5 years?
  6. I traveled to Bali in the 80’s. Traditionally women there never covered their breasts. It never seemed to bother anyone. Then the president of Indonesia passed a law requiring all women to cover their breasts. The young women who didn’t grow up with women’s breasts showing all wore blouses to cover up. The older women however thought the law was stupid. After centuries of having women not covering up they couldn’t understand why because some guy in Jakarta decided it was immodest they now had to be hot. So they would put on a blouse but not bother to button it. As they walked slowly down the street their sagging breasts would swing back and forth. No one else seemed to care. I doubt very much that God cared either. Why would He? Do you remember who told Adam and Eve to put something on because they were naked?
  7. Sorry but it does. If breasts are not viewed as sexual then seeing them is not any more indecent than a hand or a foot. What is the difference between looking at a breast and a hand when there is no sexually connected to either?
  8. Unfortunately I believe it was a pretty common promise given to gay men during that time period. I have heard a lot of stories from across the country from other gay men. They too resent those church leaders giving them that false promise I only know of one that is still in the church. And thankfully Gordon B Hinkley put an end to this practice when in a conference address declared that marriage is not therapy. We move forward.
  9. Maybe it is you that should have been born gay. Women’s breasts do nothing for me. She could have been naked and I would have no problem lecturing right in front of her. Actually if you were born gay, I think most of your views would change. But I get it. We each view life through the lense we have been given. And maybe your obsession with LGBT issues is because you know you will never have to deal with them. So you regularly start these threads and pontificate on how you would solve the problems. It is always easier to deal with other peoples problems rather than dealing with our own.
  10. Here is a study of Mixed orientation marriages among LDS couples In the USU study, which involved 1,612 LGBT Mormons, surveys revealed that mixed-orientation marriages (the marriage of a heterosexual person to a person with same-sex attraction) have an estimated 70 percent divorce rate — meaning that couples are 200 to 300 percent more likely to get a divorce. By contrast, the divorce rate for LDS couples in which both partners are heterosexual is around 25 percent. This study shows an 80% failure rate
  11. My moral compass told me it was wrong. It felt immoral to have sex with my wife. I just shouldn’t be doing it
  12. Of course it wasn’t fair to either one of us. Church leaders should have never promised that marriage would somehow change my orientation. It was a false promise taking advantage of someone who trusted in their claims to know the will of God. I learned to never trust anyone who claims to know what God thinks. It is up to each and every one of us to have our own relationship with God. He will guide us. This is an issue that many have had confirmed a different answer from the ones put out by church leaders
  13. We have seen these poster marriages before haven’t we. From the NBCNews David Matheson, a once prominent Mormon “conversion therapist” who claims to have helped some gay men remain in heterosexual marriages, is looking for a boyfriend. Matheson, who was married to a woman for 34 years and is now divorced, also confirmed in an interview with NBC News that he is now dating men. This guy wrote the Evergreen manual fir the Church Evergreen, for those that don’t know was the Churches attempt to change gay behavior. It is no longer used. Because he was so trusted and a “Success story” my family wanted me to meet with the guy I would fly down to LA twice a month to meet with David for 3 hours. The vast majority of his practice preyed on Mormons trying to become straight. He sat right across from me and looked me in the eye and said that he is no longer gay He was happy being married to a woman and had no gay feelings. And I could become straight just like him He was married for 24 years before acknowledging that he was still gay, got divorced and is now dating My point is, quoting gay guys in mixed marriages is not really a credible source to base your ideas on It only tells you what they are willing to say publicly at that moment Statistic say something else
  14. It is interesting how mixed my feelings were when I had sex with my wife. The Church was telling me it was moral to have sex with my wife. But my body was telling me it was wrong, even immoral. It felt like I was just using her while thinking about men. That still seems immoral to me. I think it is another reason why these mixed marriages fail so often.
  15. Why are you bothering posting this here. You should send it to the Church leaders. Convince them that indeed if gay men will just marry someone of the opposite sex, then in the name of God they will no longer be gay. Or if they are then it won’t matter because orientation is fluid. After all homosexuality is just a modern concept. That worked out so well the first time around.
  16. Thanks for sharing your beliefs. It gives me a feel for how members view this issue. I hope others will also respond.
  17. Thanks for your thoughts, i guess I am exploring what is possible and what is not possible to ease tension between the Church and those within the Church who feel that gay members are not being treated fairly. I bolded the paragraph that addresses what might be possible. I don't think anything can change in your or the Church's other concepts as long as the Church holds on to those beliefs.
  18. I have been thinking about this issue and I am wondering how members in particular feel about certain issues. Wondering which ones you would be ok with and which ones you don't think should be allowed. Love to hear your feedback. 1. Do you think married gay couples should be allowed to attend church services? 2. Do you think married gay couples should be excommunicated from the Church. Any exceptions? 3. Do you think married or unmarried gay members should be allowed to hold hands in a church building? 4. Do you think married or unmarried gay members should be allowed to kiss as long as it is in an appropriate place? 5. Do you thinks single gay members should be allowed to date someone of the same sex? 6. What restrictions, if any, do you think the Church should place on someone who is gay?
  19. Do you. believe that being straight is similar to ADHD as well?
  20. I am happy for anyone who feels like they can find a fruitful and fulfilling life in the Church. I am also happy for anyone who feels like they can find a fruitful and fulfilling life outside the Church. Your cautionary tale only is cautionary because you view one as good and one as destructive. The truth is, both can lead to happiness and can also lead to misery. We only have one life. There is no dress rehearsal. I hope everyone finds the happiness that they deserve no matter what there choice. Either choice does not mean that God is automatically excluded from either life. Personally, my relationship with God has only strengthened and improved since moving away from the Church. What I don't like is the feeling of judgement from you about what path is best for either friend and implying that if one leaves the Church then they will leave their family, become bitter and bring about their own destruction. Despite what you think, there is no right or wrong way to have a relationship with God.
  21. That was a really terrific article.I would strongly encourage anyone who wants to understand this issue better to read what David has to say I especially hope @iPod will read it as well. I found this part interesting and much like the experience I had as well.
  22. D&C 131: 1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; 2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; 3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. 4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase. How is it possible for a gay person ever enter into celestial glory? Did God decide in the pre existence that spirit will not be allowed into the Celestial Kingdom, so He made them gay? Is that the narrative?
  23. With all due respect, you have no idea how difficult and the personal repercussions that happen when a member of the Church comes out. My family didn't talk to me or invite me to any family functions for 13 years. Ward members who I had been close to for 15 years never talked to me again. You think stuff like that isn't a big deal? You may think things have changed and now it is no big deal. Perhaps that is true for some, but certainly not all. I know gay members of the Church right now that are struggling to figure out the consequences of what will happen to them if they tell their families and church members. His coming out might not have been a big deal for you. But for thousands of others, it meant something. And evidently it meant something to Elder Holland who 2 years after the event, decided to point the finger at that moment as an illustration of what must stop at BYU. If it was no longer an issue, why did Elder Holland bring it up? You also have no idea the impact an individual has on gay members of the church when someone comes out in a setting like that. You should read his speech, if you haven't already. It was not centered around coming out. And yes, I totally agree Easton will probably be out of the Church in 5 years. Probably not even that long. The Church is not a good place for a gay person to be. Giving up a life with someone you love is not a good place to be. Just ask how many on this board are willing to give up their spouses for the Church and think that will lead to happiness.
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