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About 3DOP

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    Brings Forth Plants

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    St. Marys, KS
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    Peace, Baseball, Beer, Joy, War, Boxing, Tolstoy, Wine, Church, Tennis, Family, Monastics, Economics, Politics, Scotland, Oceans, Prayer, Heaven, Flowers, Space, Bobby Darin, Time, Dracula, Rivers, Fire, Angels, Aquinas, Real Estate, Maureen O'Hara, Fish, Wind, Honey, Motion, The First Lady of Song, Lava, Stomach Acid, Merging, Jumping, Water Softeners, Barbecue, Bone, Bananas, Skin, American Football, Olivia de Havilland, and Michaelangelo.

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  1. The poster was well-informed about papal infallibility. But the infallibility of the Church's teaching goes well beyond that. As I explained in another post, the grandkids are here and I am having a respite, but they are coming soon...and I still haven't got the budget done! Briefly, ecumenical council, consensus of the Fathers, along with the liturgical prayers of the Church, are other ways a Catholic should know infallible teachings, whether a pope has defined them or not. I am going to miss these little ones so much. My little Beatrice is just learning to talk and in her softly li
  2. I don't know that there could be a "usual attitude" toward "apostates". You probably know that it is a word that means fallen away. Several generations ago, it would have been different, and more like how you picture the Catholic Church. What I believe today is that many Catholics in authority are apostate. I used to be sure they retained their priestly authority. But it has recently come to my attention that there has been more serious monkeying around with the Sacraments than I had previously realized. At least Mormons say the right words for baptism. For the very same reason th
  3. Our daughter's family has been with us for the last two weeks, grandbabies sleeping or trying to sleep downstairs where the computer is located...Oliver just a pressed a key...a more comprehensive reply will need to be later...but thanks for yours! "And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, he began to grow sorrowful and to be sad. Then he saith to them: My soul is sorrowful even unto death: stay you here, and watch with me." Mental anguish in the Garden was not less intense than the physical suffering which followed.
  4. Good question...Let me say that I believe whatever the Catholic Church teaches. I had not thought of it quite that way. Our redemption is certainly bought through Christ's death. However, what I said implies that His horrible death, or even an ordinary death, was not absolutely necessary for "mere" redemption. Good catch. If I understand correctly, the Catholic Church teaches that Christ is doing even more than redeeming in His hours of severest suffering.
  5. The best atonement is necessarily the true atonement. I have said this before here in this forum. The Catholic Church celebrates the Feast of the Circumcision on Jan. 1. Catholics are taught that the drops of the precious blood of our Lord spilt as an eight day old were enough to redeem us. But to melt our stony hearts, it took more than mere redemption. The Cross is about more than mere justice. The Cross is about God showing how He will go beyond justice to reach us. It is not enough for us to be only justified because Christ paid for our sins. We must also love Him because He firs
  6. Bluebell, hi. You have permission to post whatever you think would be of interest. I finished editing it just now for what I thought was more clarity, less verbosity, and better grammar. I am sure I will change my mind tomorrow and be dissatisfied with it again! You may use the updated or the old post as you see to be appropriate. I know I would be keenly interested in how the Facebook discussion is going. I bet Miserere would as well and perhaps a few of your fellow LDS here, that is if you can say anything without violating internet etiquette. (I should have thought that once I went public,
  7. Hi. I appreciate your friendly interest bluebell. It would seem that this "doctrinal development" admits that the Catholic Church has been wrong for century after century in restricting the minor orders (acolyte, exorcist, lector, porter) to male seminarians preparing eventually for the priesthood. This is sad and I would say, proof, that the early church apostatized long ago, as LDS believe, if it were true. If this "doctrinal development" were true, the Church has been false in teaching that sacramental graces from the hands of a bishop are necessary for candidates to be gradually eleva
  8. Well said Mike, but don't you be throwing off on hillbillies. Hillbillies, like anybody else, might have some real good natural qualities. It is no disqualification for grace and holiness to have been born a hillbilly. I don't know that Jesus didn't choose Galilean "hillbillies" to be His Apostles and the foundation after Himself, of His kingdom! Cheers, 3DOP
  9. Interesting. You are clearly familiar with Bp. Barron than I am. He is an auxiliary bishop of Los Angeles I think. Closer to LDS positions on many points? More points than a Traditional Catholic like me? For the last 25 years, it has been evident to me that the Catholic Church and the CoJCoLDS have much in common. I would not be disappointed if, like me, Bp. Barron would be seen as close on many of your positions. I have seen you praise his explanantion of the Catholic Eucharist without hearing anything bad from my usual sources, which keep up with what is going on in the Novus Ordo wing,
  10. Hi Atlantic Mike It is a little unclear to me what you mean by the expression "take upon the name of Christ". If I am following you, I think are far off base if you think other Christians differ from LDS in that they see no need to do anything to advance further in holiness and sanctity. One of the arguments that comes up between Calvinists (Reformed/Presbyterian) and Catholics has to do with the works that both parties agree must be performed if a person is to be saved. The point is not about who is right about whether to categorize these works as justifying or sanctifying. The point is
  11. Mark, please no. You have this belief...that I was offended...I wasn't...I never have been...Angry? Sometimes. Frustrated? Yes. Offended? No. Nothing ever "offended" me more than the accusation, as I perceived it, that I was offended, and that mildly. You are supposed to defeat your intellectual antagonist. You did, in my opinion, successfully interrupt my discussions with other LDS who seemed to me of being susceptible to my explanations of what the Catholic Church means by expressions like essence and nature. You would insist that my ideas (not really mine at all), taken from Aristotle, whic
  12. Mark, hey. That seems kind of rough on a presumably L.A. Dodger fan tonight. I am re-reading The Boys of Summer which I think I read in high school. You must have some memory of the coming of the Dodgers to So Cal? I was not above two years old yet. I don't think Los Angeles will ever appreciate what Brooklyn lost when that happened. I had been a S.F. Giants fan as a boy. Golden West Radio Network carried them out of Portland. We were always second place to Koufax and Drysdale no matter how much more hitting we had with Mays, McCovey, Cepeda, and others. I dropped them finally with Barry
  13. cal...I have been admiring dancing lately too. A most enjoyable and thoughtful post. Thanks very much. I retract what it was that I thought all LDS would dislike about the Beatific Vision. I am sure you and I both think that heaven is better than the mere absence of pain from bodily ailments and the boredom that arises from the repetition of that which is imperfectly conceived or performed. I concede that liberty from pain and boredom surely goes a long, long way. God bless, wishing you a Happy 2021 and forever, 3DOP
  14. Hi cal. The Beatific Vision is not without appeal. It is the price that is unappealing to many minds, including my own at different times in my life. In my opinion, defined Catholic teaching concludes that the Beatific Vision is incompatible with attachment to legitimate earthly joys and temporal blessings. The Beatific Vision supplies for all former desires. Allow me to reproduce what I had decided to withhold if not prompted. The context is Teddyaware's quote of our proposed misinterpretation of Mt. 22 and his reasonings as found in this post: Here was my full reply, not given
  15. The face to face vision of God. Catholics call it the Beatific Vision. Jesus experienced this heaven from the beginning of His life on earth, so it does not imply inactivity. Rather, it implies a combination of contemplative and active life.
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