Letter to a Seminary Teacher & Response from a Seminary Teacher

[rockpond]

Last week Jana Riess published this guess post by Mette Harrison on her Flunking Sainthood blog.  It's a letter from a mom to her daughter's seminary teacher.

In the letter she discusses six topics and how they are addressed in seminary:

1. LGBT issues
2. Faith and Intellect
3. Identity
4. MIssion
5. Marriage and Family
6. Exposure to other religions

Yesterday Riess published a response from a seminary teacher (not the actual seminary teacher the letter was written to).  Here's the great response by this teacher.  You kinda have to read the first letter for the response to make sense.  But, I think it's worth it... his responses are insightful.

 

[TheSkepticChristian]

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

In the letter she discusses six topics and how they are addressed in seminary:

Quote

I also try to give students rational reasons to choose faith over doubt and hope over skepticism. 

 

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place.  US safest cities largely have extremely low property crime rates. So I wonder, is it religion or good income that helps the community? or both? Religion or Good income? Why hope over skepticism? 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/15/24-7-wall-st-safest-cities/18933099/

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian

[ksfisher]

1 minute ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place. 

 

The gospel of Jesus Christ makes the world a better place.

[Mystery Meat]

21 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place.  US safest cities largely have extremely low property crime rates. So I wonder, is it religion or good income that helps the community? or both? Religion or Good income? Why hope over skepticism? 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/15/24-7-wall-st-safest-cities/18933099/

 

How in THE hell is this even relevant? Now that you are back on limited have you decided to revert to your practice of bringing up irrelevant topics in the threads of others? A practice you strongly criticized in a thread of your own as recently as yesterday. Let's not be hypocritical.

[TheSkepticChristian]

2 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

How in THE hell is this even relevant? Now that you are back on limited have you decided to revert to your practice of bringing up irrelevant topics in the threads of others? A practice you strongly criticized in a thread of your own as recently as yesterday. Let's not be hypocritical.

I will let rockpond decide if it is relevant or not. 

[ksfisher]

9 minutes ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Do you have evidence that Christianity (not Economics) makes the cities a better place? 

 

Your question assumes that the gospel is being lived in such a way and by enough people to have a measurable impact on the world.

[TheSkepticChristian]

4 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Your question assumes that the gospel is being lived in such a way and by enough people to have a measurable impact on the world.

Christianity is very significant in the USA. Is Christianity being successful in making our cities a better place? 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Mystery Meat said:

How in THE hell is this even relevant? Now that you are back on limited have you decided to revert to your practice of bringing up irrelevant topics in the threads of others? A practice you strongly criticized in a thread of your own as recently as yesterday. Let's not be hypocritical.

Wow! so TSC is back on limited again, huh?

And thus we see how long his "i've stopped doing that. Learn to forgive" lasts. It's just as I predicted.

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Christianity is very significant in the USA. Is Christianity being successful in making our cities a better place? 

How would you measure this?  We would need to replicate the conditions of the world, minus Christianity, to be able to see the difference. 

Do you believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ makes better people?  Has it made you a better person?

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place.  US safest cities largely have extremely low property crime rates. So I wonder, is it religion or good income that helps the community? or both? Religion or Good income? Why hope over skepticism? 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/15/24-7-wall-st-safest-cities/18933099/

 

I hear that the US's cleanest cities also have extremely low littering rates.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I hope it is making the world a better place. Do you have evidence that Christianity (not Economics) makes the cities a better place? 

Why do cities with a high poverty rate also have high violent crime rates?

Is this a clumsy attempt to lead in to you discoursing on white supremacy and immigration?

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The gospel of Jesus Christ makes the world a better place.

Yep.  And other religions?

I suppose each other one or at least most other ones have something good about them and they do whatever good they can with whatever good they've got.

As the Church with the "fulness" of the gospel,  which is the power of good unto salvation and perfection, we do have the best to offer everybody, though, even if some people don't want it or don't think it's the best.

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Yep.  And other religions?

I suppose each other one or at least most other ones have something good about them and they do whatever good they can with whatever good they've got.

As the Church with the "fulness" of the gospel,  which is the power of good unto salvation and perfection, we do have the best to offer everybody, though, even if some people don't want it or don't think it's the best.

I think most other religions do enormous good in countless unnamed ways. That's why it is foolish even to suggest removing the tax-exempt status of churches. 

[Ahab]

4 hours ago, rockpond said:

Last week Jana Riess published this guess post by Mette Harrison on her Flunking Sainthood blog.  It's a letter from a mom to her daughter's seminary teacher.

In the letter she discusses six topics and how they are addressed in seminary:

1. LGBT issues
2. Faith and Intellect
3. Identity
4. MIssion
5. Marriage and Family
6. Exposure to other religions

Yesterday Riess published a response from a seminary teacher (not the actual seminary teacher the letter was written to).  Here's the great response by this teacher.  You kinda have to read the first letter for the response to make sense.  But, I think it's worth it... his responses are insightful.

 

I like how the teacher was basically trying to help the parent know that she shouldn't expect perfect behavior and attitudes from institute teachers 100% of the time and that she ane her daughter need to learn to cope with imperfections in other people while doing what they can, themselves, to make the Church and the world in general... better.

Each of us needs to try to do the best we can, individually, regardless of how other people treat us or speak to us, whether or not others agree with us.

The very best people will come out on top in the end, and opposition to becoming good should serve to help make us better people. 

 

[Ahab]

8 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think most other religions do enormous good in countless unnamed ways. That's why it is foolish even to suggest removing the tax-exempt status of churches. 

Be careful not to put the cart before the horse.

Any suggestion that the tax-exempt status ot churches should be taken away provides a perfect opportunity to try to teach people who don't know what good it does to give churches a tax-exempt status.

You say it's foolish to suggest it only because you know what good it does to give churches a tax-exempt status, but not everybody knows that. And not everybody knows what good churches do, either.

[cdowis]

2 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I hope it is making the world a better place. Do you have evidence that Christianity (not Economics) makes the cities a better place? 

 

The city of Zion.

The cities of the Book of the Book of Mormon in 4 Nephi.

Edited March 16, 2016 by cdowis

[rockpond]

17 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I like how the teacher was basically trying to help the parent know that she shouldn't expect perfect behavior and attitudes from institute teachers 100% of the time and that she ane her daughter need to learn to cope with imperfections in other people while doing what they can, themselves, to make the Church and the world in general... better.

Each of us needs to try to do the best we can, individually, regardless of how other people treat us or speak to us, whether or not others agree with us.

The very best people will come out on top in the end, and opposition to becoming good should serve to help make us better people. 

 

I agree.  The seminary teacher's response has such a balanced and thoughtful perspective that, as I read it, it makes me want to do my part to bring that same attitude to everything I do in the church.

[carbon dioxide]

13 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place.  US safest cities largely have extremely low property crime rates. So I wonder, is it religion or good income that helps the community? or both? Religion or Good income? Why hope over skepticism? 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/15/24-7-wall-st-safest-cities/18933099/

 

Poverty and wealth have much to do with whether a place is safe or not.  Wealthy people don't want a bunch of crime happening in their area as sends real estate prices down and they want to enjoy their wealth.  Also police tend to protect wealthy areas a little bit more than poor areas.  Religion can play an important role in the lives of the individual but in every community, their are people of different faiths and even those of the same faith do not follow their religious beliefs the same or to the same level of intensity.  It is also important to remember that wealth comes and goes.  Even though safe cities will rot out if there is another great depression.  So money does solve many problems but not all of them.

[TheSkepticChristian]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I hear that the US's cleanest cities also have extremely low littering rates.

I meant to say 

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place.  US safest cities largely have extremely low poverty rates. So I wonder, is it religion or good income that helps the community? or both? Religion or Good income? Why hope over skepticism?  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/15/24-7-wall-st-safest-cities/18933099/

56 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Poverty and wealth have much to do with whether a place is safe or not.  Wealthy people don't want a bunch of crime happening in their area as sends real estate prices down and they want to enjoy their wealth.  Also police tend to protect wealthy areas a little bit more than poor areas.  

and what about entire countries. Countries in South America and the middle east are much more dangerous than Sweden, Denmark, norway. 

So yes, wealth makes an area safer, that is what the evidence shows. 

[sunstoned]

13 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The gospel of Jesus Christ makes the world a better place.

CRF

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

CRF

I am sorry to hear about your chronic renal failure and will pray for you.

[sjdawg]

20 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

Christianity is very significant in the USA. Is Christianity being successful in making our cities a better place? 

How do we define "a better place"?  safer?  wealthier?  Happier?   more educated?

[sjdawg]

7 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I meant to say 

I sometimes wonder if religion truly makes our world a better place.  US safest cities largely have extremely low poverty rates. So I wonder, is it religion or good income that helps the community? or both? Religion or Good income? Why hope over skepticism?  

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/15/24-7-wall-st-safest-cities/18933099/

and what about entire countries. Countries in South America and the middle east are much more dangerous than Sweden, Denmark, norway. 

So yes, wealth makes an area safer, that is what the evidence shows. 

I'm living in the Middle east and have never felt safer.   Primarily in this specific country peace is achieved as a result of wealth.   People have too much to lose to get involved in any nonsense.

People always ask me if I am scared to live in the middle east.  the reality is I might be scared to return to North America with my family.  We don't have school shootings here, there is no violent crime, there is little to no theft.  My biggest danger here is traffic.

[cdowis]

7 hours ago, sunstoned said:

CRF

4 Nephi, Book of Mormon

[ksfisher]

8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

CRF

My statement was a statement of faith in Jesus Christ and his gospel.  While it didn't begin with "I believe" it should be easily recognized as such.  If your CFR is asking me to prove that there is  Jesus Christ or that he does have a gospel, I don't think we have any basis for discussion.

As for the gospel making the world a better place, please accept the following quote from Elder Bednar given at the April 2015 Seventies Training:

"The basic purpose for all we teach and all we do in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to make available the priesthood authority and gospel ordinances and covenants that enable a man and a woman and their children to be sealed together and be happy at home."

If you do not accept Elder Bednar as an apostle or accept his authority to speak on such matters, then again, I don't think we have any basis for discussion.

Lastly, I have had personal experiences with living the gospel and seeing other live it which leads me to believe that my life and the lives of others are better when we live the gospel.  While these experiences may not be reflected in the lives of others, I believe that they could be as they exercise faith in the Savior and obey his commandments.