For LDS with kids, how is it different today?

[Garden Girl]

5 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Appreciate the perspective, CG.

But on a more serious & topical note--how exactly do evolving tastes and mores in the larger American culture change the experience for kids being raised in the LDS tradition today?  You give us some examples of the former, drawing on your personal recollections--but you said nothing of the latter (your merely leave your readers to infer things must be getting harder/getting worse).  Do you have any first-hand observations/examples of changes, specific to the contemporary LDS childhood experience?  Could be from grand-kids, extended family, friends with grand-kids being raised LDS.  No worries if your answer is no.  

--Erik

Hello Erik...

Not sure exactly what you're asking... the differences are readily apparent to someone my age... in every aspect of American life... music, entertainment, fashion, etc... I suppose the contrast doesn't seem as great to parents in their 30's today (I don't think you have to go back past the 50's to see what I was talking about).   I've never had children, but have observed my ward sisters lamenting over school shopping and trying to find "modest" clothing, i.e. remember hip hugger pants... short skirts... grunge... prom dresses (one sister shopped for matching fabric and actually sewed sleeves onto the strapless dress)... etc etc.  Ever watch the antics of teens, especially girls in the recent "Girls Gone Wild" type videos of kids on Spring Break?  When I was in high school, growing up in So Cal, spring break and the beach was a big thing... We'd rent a house to share with a bunch of girls, and always had a couple of the moms as chaperones... we did crazy, funny things, but nothing... nothing... like the kids of today... attitudes and culture are so permissive now.  LDS parents have to try and raise their kids "against the flow" so to speak.  It's not easy...

GG

 

[Rain]

On Sunday, June 05, 2016 at 2:55 AM, Five Solas said:

It would be an excellent question for the oldest of my younger sisters, herself born into the LDS Church (early 1970’s), now mother of four children, the oldest of whom recently entered his teenage years.  She & her husband/my brother-in-law are devout LDS and theirs is a model family, their house adorned with LDS imagery, including temples and one red-cloaked, long-haired fellow who keeps his eyes fixed on their living room.  

(FYI, she would never be found on a site like this.  When she’s on the internet, it’s sites where she’s in control—Facebook, Pinterest—where she can readily block people & filter ideas that don’t conform to her worldview.) 

 

One of these day’s I’ll have an opportunity to ask her, and I’ll be doing so out of genuine curiosity.  Is the second decade of the 21^st century pretty much the same as it was for LDS kids in the 1980’s (pick your decade)?  Does time more/less stand still for faithful LDS?  And if not, how exactly is this decade different?

 

I’ll give perhaps a silly example of something I assume doesn’t happen anymore:  In my 9^th grade LDS Seminary class (Richfield Junior High in Sevier County, Utah—home of the “Roadrunners”), we were taught about the evils of certain pop music bands and singer/songwriters.  KISS, we were told, stood for “knights in Satan’s service.”  AC/DC meant “against Christ/destroy Christ” and David Bowie (honestly, the only one I truly admired on their hit list) shouldn’t be listened to because he was a “bi-sexual.”  I’m guessing contemporary LDS seminary classes wouldn’t devote time for pop music critiques—but maybe I’m wrong. 

 

What do folks think?  How is growing up LDS different for kids today? 

 

--Erik

 

PS. For those fond of the long-haired, vaguely Nordic-looking representations of Jesus - consider...

My husband grew up in Redmond and graduated from North Sevier in the late 80s. I grew up in Logan. 

Speaking specifically about bands we did hear this kind of thing,  but I don't remember it ever coming from adults in a classroom.  It was more of a thing I heard from other kids.  It still goes on today,  BUT the difference is rather than specific bands mentioned it is care for the things sung.  For example, a year ago I found a quote from some LDS resource about paying attention to how you feel when you listen to music.  I put it on the fridge,  because I found one child is more argumentative when he listens to certain types of music.  It doesn't seem to get through to him though. The other children understood. 

My parents taught rules more,  but that may be a family control thing that goes back generations.  I taught more about listening to Heavenly Father. 

[Meadowchik]

I do appreciate the effort to preserve sweetness and innocence of children, but at the same time I want to prepare mine to be able to deal with life. 

But we are a cross-cultural family, French-Americans. My kids identify mostly as American and internet helps them feel connected but also lessens the French influence. Ironically,  it would seem tech helps us connect to other cultures but also isolate ourselves in our own, if that's what we chose.

[Five Solas]

On 6/5/2016 at 8:12 PM, Garden Girl said:

Hello Erik...

Not sure exactly what you're asking... the differences are readily apparent to someone my age... in every aspect of American life... music, entertainment, fashion, etc... I suppose the contrast doesn't seem as great to parents in their 30's today (I don't think you have to go back past the 50's to see what I was talking about).   I've never had children, but have observed my ward sisters lamenting over school shopping and trying to find "modest" clothing, i.e. remember hip hugger pants... short skirts... grunge... prom dresses (one sister shopped for matching fabric and actually sewed sleeves onto the strapless dress)... etc etc.  Ever watch the antics of teens, especially girls in the recent "Girls Gone Wild" type videos of kids on Spring Break?  When I was in high school, growing up in So Cal, spring break and the beach was a big thing... We'd rent a house to share with a bunch of girls, and always had a couple of the moms as chaperones... we did crazy, funny things, but nothing... nothing... like the kids of today... attitudes and culture are so permissive now.  LDS parents have to try and raise their kids "against the flow" so to speak.  It's not easy...

GG

 

Perhaps a better way to have asked my question is how are LDS programs for children/youth different than they were say, in the 1980's.  Do they still give guidance on how young LDS should engage culture?  

I gave what was surely a ham-fisted (yet memorable!) example from my coming-of-age decade.  But what do seminary, LDS-sponsored scouting, young women's programs, Sunday school etc., do today that would result in a different experience for LDS kids then we would have experienced?  Yes, you're right--our American culture has evolved and continues to do so.  Lots of things are different for kids today, generally speaking.  So how are LDS church programs for kids changing in response?  How is children's experience in these LDS programs different now vs. then? 

Does that help to clarify? 

--Erik

 

[Garden Girl]

3 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Perhaps a better way to have asked my question is how are LDS programs for children/youth different than they were say, in the 1980's.  Do they still give guidance on how young LDS should engage culture?  

I gave what was surely a ham-fisted (yet memorable!) example from my coming-of-age decade.  But what do seminary, LDS-sponsored scouting, young women's programs, Sunday school etc., do today that would result in a different experience for LDS kids then we would have experienced?  Yes, you're right--our American culture has evolved and continues to do so.  Lots of things are different for kids today, generally speaking.  So how are LDS church programs for kids changing in response?  How is children's experience in these LDS programs different now vs. then? 

Does that help to clarify? 

--Erik

 

Here's the thing, Erik... Since I don't have children, I'm sort of out of it as far as the specific youth programs of today,  and since I reactivated all my callings been with only adult sisters in Rel Soc, etc.  So I'm indirectly aware of the Church's response in regard to today's youth...   (You may know from my previous posts that I became inactive at age 20 and did not reactivate again until over 30 years later when I was 55).  However, just from what I hear in conferences or read in the Ensign since 1995 etc., there is and has been deeper or wider emphasis in some areas that were barely touched on when I was young... for instance, the homosexual--same sex--gender issues today... i.e., while Chastity is still a topic as it was when I was young, I would think the emphasis of the Church has had to change from the simple boy-girl issues I remember to encompass the more open and cultural changes our youth face today.  I remember chastity talks being more general "no-no" types... after I reactivated I heard a Fireside for youth by Elder Holland where he talked more frankly than I ever heard, and explained the deeper WHY chastity is so important.  Here I was an adult and for the first time I really understood the deeper reasons for being chaste... it is a talk I think is still available online and one I think would help parents with their youth... I think the title is something like "Of Signs, Symbols, and Sacraments"... ??  

GG

edit to add... Elder Holland's talk from Jan 1999 can be found on lds.org > Gospel Topics>Chastity>Prophetic Teachings>"Personal Purity" by Elder Holland... "One who uses the God-given body of another without divine sanction abuses the very soul of that individual, abuses the central purpose and processes of life."

Edited June 7, 2016 by Garden Girl

[boblloyd91]

On 6/4/2016 at 5:55 PM, Five Solas said:

It would be an excellent question for the oldest of my younger sisters, herself born into the LDS Church (early 1970’s), now mother of four children, the oldest of whom recently entered his teenage years.  She & her husband/my brother-in-law are devout LDS and theirs is a model family, their house adorned with LDS imagery, including temples and one red-cloaked, long-haired fellow who keeps his eyes fixed on their living room.  

(FYI, she would never be found on a site like this.  When she’s on the internet, it’s sites where she’s in control—Facebook, Pinterest—where she can readily block people & filter ideas that don’t conform to her worldview.) 

 

One of these day’s I’ll have an opportunity to ask her, and I’ll be doing so out of genuine curiosity.  Is the second decade of the 21^st century pretty much the same as it was for LDS kids in the 1980’s (pick your decade)?  Does time more/less stand still for faithful LDS?  And if not, how exactly is this decade different?

 

I’ll give perhaps a silly example of something I assume doesn’t happen anymore:  In my 9^th grade LDS Seminary class (Richfield Junior High in Sevier County, Utah—home of the “Roadrunners”), we were taught about the evils of certain pop music bands and singer/songwriters.  KISS, we were told, stood for “knights in Satan’s service.”  AC/DC meant “against Christ/destroy Christ” and David Bowie (honestly, the only one I truly admired on their hit list) shouldn’t be listened to because he was a “bi-sexual.”  I’m guessing contemporary LDS seminary classes wouldn’t devote time for pop music critiques—but maybe I’m wrong. 

 

What do folks think?  How is growing up LDS different for kids today? 

 

--Erik

 

PS. For those fond of the long-haired, vaguely Nordic-looking representations of Jesus - consider...

First off, I didn't know you were from Richfield...I live in Delta myself. Good old Central Utah! I guess to answer your question, I graduated in 2003, and was going to seminary, and mutual from about 1997 until 2003. I grew up in the Draper/Sandy area. To answer your question, in my experience there wasn't too much focus on specifics such as which bands were good or bad, but there were a few things I remember which I doubt we will hear again. The worst thing I remember hearing was when a seminary teacher (who in many ways was a nice guy) talked about counseling a woman who had been raped. In telling us this story he talked about how she was at fault in many ways for how she dressed and being out too late and inwardly he didn't feel very sorry for her. In this day and age that would be absolutely horrifying to hear (and rightly so). I think people like Elizabeth Smart have been instrumental in fighting this.

I also would say a difference I see coming (and already mentioned here) is the use of technology, particularly the church's use of social media more. Also, along those lines (and something I'm already seeing to a certain degree with the current group of missionaries going out) is the influence of the church essays. I am wondering if the next generation will be more fluent and aware of church history then mine will be. I will give you more thoughts as I think about this more. 

 

[Five Solas]

On 6/7/2016 at 0:00 PM, boblloyd91 said:

First off, I didn't know you were from Richfield...I live in Delta myself. Good old Central Utah! I guess to answer your question, I graduated in 2003, and was going to seminary, and mutual from about 1997 until 2003. I grew up in the Draper/Sandy area. To answer your question, in my experience there wasn't too much focus on specifics such as which bands were good or bad, but there were a few things I remember which I doubt we will hear again. The worst thing I remember hearing was when a seminary teacher (who in many ways was a nice guy) talked about counseling a woman who had been raped. In telling us this story he talked about how she was at fault in many ways for how she dressed and being out too late and inwardly he didn't feel very sorry for her. In this day and age that would be absolutely horrifying to hear (and rightly so). I think people like Elizabeth Smart have been instrumental in fighting this.

I also would say a difference I see coming (and already mentioned here) is the use of technology, particularly the church's use of social media more. Also, along those lines (and something I'm already seeing to a certain degree with the current group of missionaries going out) is the influence of the church essays. I am wondering if the next generation will be more fluent and aware of church history then mine will be. I will give you more thoughts as I think about this more. 

 

Appreciate you sharing boblloyd91. 

I was living in Glenwood, actually.  They bused us into Richfield for school.  Glenwood was a little town of ~ 600 people five miles to the East, an exact total of 3 non-LDS families circa 1980.  And a former United Order community for those into LDS history, with its own stone grist mill, mercantile and a little water-powered electricity generating station, a small building containing a turbine connected to a generator fed from a large & very rusty pipe that came down the hill)--the last two of which were fun-to-explore ruins by the time I arrived (the power station was completely gone when I visited a few years back--I guess all that copper sitting out there proved too much temptation for someone). 

But I would never say I was "from" there, I was born in Renton, WA, where Boeing builds 737 jets.  My parents (both originally from the Provo area) moved us to Glenwood when I was 10.  Basically, they wanted to get back to "Zion"--for reasons that sound more than a little funny in 2016 (but the late 1970's held a different set of expectations for many LDS).

After I graduated from Richfield Junior High, my parents moved to unincorporated Salt Lake County (in search of better employment) in what would otherwise have been Sandy, perhaps not far from you.  I went to High School (Hillcrest) and one year at U of U before I climbed on an Amtrack train ($149 one-way) at age 19 and headed for Seattle (where I've been ever since). 

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure.  But thanks for indulging me.

:0)

--Erik

 

[bcuzbcuz]

On 5 June 2016 at 11:54 PM, Storm Rider said:

Everyone has to be right and no one can be wrong. 

No, it's actually:

"Nobody's right if everybody's wrong"

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

 

Buffalo Springfield "For What It's Worth"     

[ERMD]

It seems to me that the examples cited in the original post are more a reflection of a local phenomenon, rather than a global, church-wide attitude, both then and now.  I was in high school in the late 70s-early 80s.  I grew up in Texas, and there were never any "warnings" against specific bands or types of music, at least where we lived.  I was a rock and prog-rock fan then and now.  I remember reading an Ensign article way back when in which Lex de Azevedo excoriated the overall message of Pink Floyd's "The Wall."  I still think he had it wrong.

Even today, I'm sure people in my ward would be shocked to know what I am listening to on my iPod as I work out.  I need something hard and driving to keep me motivated!

I think the leadership, both general and local, of the Church today has the focus right--principles, testimony, solid foundation; not necessarily trying to give a specific answer to every situation or choice.  Acceptable answers are out there, it simply makes more sense to be well-grounded as answers are found and understood.  As was said here earlier, teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.  Certainly boundaries need to be set, taking into consideration ages and maturity levels.

Several years ago, we had a 3rd hour meeting for the adults and aged 14 and up youth of our ward.  The overall theme and primary source was Elder Bednar's address "Things As They Really Are."  I asked a ward member who is an FBI firearms instructor and member of the FBI swat team to first discuss the rigorous training an agent has to go through prior to being issued a firearm.  I then compared that to how much training a child receives prior to being given a smart phone.  The point being, while they can both serve good purposes, one instrument can be physically deadly when misused, and the other can be just a spiritually deadly.  As an emergency physician, I dealt regularly with one, and as a then-bishop, I also dealt regularly with the other.

Kids of every generation are going to have challenges, different from those their parents experienced.  And since the parents didn't have the exact same challenges, they will be hard-pressed to anticipate every situation their children will face; much like gospel and church history related questions.  Every variable and permutation cannot be anticipated.  Like Alma taught his son, it's the small and simple things that will make the biggest difference.  When applied consistently, simple principles like scripture study, daily prayer, meaningful church and temple attendance, and genuine service are going to be the things that will provide an anchor and be the mechanism for real happiness.  Trying to teach which rock band is evil is looking beyond the mark.

One of my hobbies is precision rifle shooting.  It involves not only hitting targets at great distances, but hitting them in the right place, sometimes while they are moving.  Success depends on the fundamentals of marksmanship.  The bullet doesn't know how expensive the rifle is, or what kind of optic is mounted on the rifle.  If the fundamentals are not properly applied, consistently, every time, the bullet is going to go somewhere else.  The same applies to the fundamentals of a gospel-centered life, except fortunately, when we "miss", we can repent and try again.

In my view, opinions and mores of society are expanding away from the bounds the Lord has set at an ever increasing velocity; nevertheless, those bounds will not change.  It would be good if we all understood that.

 

[boblloyd91]

17 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Appreciate you sharing boblloyd91. 

I was living in Glenwood, actually.  They bused us into Richfield for school.  Glenwood was a little town of ~ 600 people five miles to the East, an exact total of 3 non-LDS families circa 1980.  And a former United Order community for those into LDS history, with its own stone grist mill, mercantile and a little water-powered electricity generating station, a small building containing a turbine connected to a generator fed from a large & very rusty pipe that came down the hill)--the last two of which were fun-to-explore ruins by the time I arrived (the power station was completely gone when I visited a few years back--I guess all that copper sitting out there proved too much temptation for someone). 

But I would never say I was "from" there, I was born in Renton, WA, where Boeing builds 737 jets.  My parents (both originally from the Provo area) moved us to Glenwood when I was 10.  Basically, they wanted to get back to "Zion"--for reasons that sound more than a little funny in 2016 (but the late 1970's held a different set of expectations for many LDS).

After I graduated from Richfield Junior High, my parents moved to unincorporated Salt Lake County (in search of better employment) in what would otherwise have been Sandy, perhaps not far from you.  I went to High School (Hillcrest) and one year at U of U before I climbed on an Amtrack train ($149 one-way) at age 19 and headed for Seattle (where I've been ever since). 

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure.  But thanks for indulging me.

:0)

--Erik

 

No that's good to know. It's neat you went to Hillcrest. I would have gone there but when we moved I ended up going to Alta High instead

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, boblloyd91 said:

No that's good to know. It's neat you went to Hillcrest. I would have gone there but when we moved I ended up going to Alta High instead

My husband went to Alta High, graduated in 1979.

[Five Solas]

On 6/9/2016 at 10:15 AM, ERMD said:

It seems to me that the examples cited in the original post are more a reflection of a local phenomenon, rather than a global, church-wide attitude, both then and now.  I was in high school in the late 70s-early 80s.  I grew up in Texas, and there were never any "warnings" against specific bands or types of music, at least where we lived.  I was a rock and prog-rock fan then and now.  I remember reading an Ensign article way back when in which Lex de Azevedo excoriated the overall message of Pink Floyd's "The Wall."  I still think he had it wrong.

Even today, I'm sure people in my ward would be shocked to know what I am listening to on my iPod as I work out.  I need something hard and driving to keep me motivated!

I think the leadership, both general and local, of the Church today has the focus right--principles, testimony, solid foundation; not necessarily trying to give a specific answer to every situation or choice.  Acceptable answers are out there, it simply makes more sense to be well-grounded as answers are found and understood.  As was said here earlier, teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.  Certainly boundaries need to be set, taking into consideration ages and maturity levels.

...

Appreciate the response, ERMD.  I'm regretting my example in the OP as it seemingly failed to help anyone understand my question. 

What I was trying to get at is how is the experience of LDS children different now vs. in previous decades within the context of LDS programs (e.g., seminary, church-sponsored scouting, young women's programs, etc.).  And what I got was a lot of examples of how things are different for LDS kids within the broader American culture/experience (and we can all agree that the present decade looks very different from my 1980's or Garden Girl's 1950's--for many, many reasons).  

Do you think LDS programs for LDS kids have changed (e.g., new content, new emphasis, new teaching methods) in response changes in the broader society?  For example, does an LDS 14 year-old sitting in a 9th grade seminary class have a different experience in that seminary class then his/her counterpart did 30 years ago?  If so, how? 

--Erik 

PS.  Don't know what's on on your iPod, but I promise I won't judge--I've got a few Tool albums myself (all of them, in fact)

;0)

[Tacenda]

17 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

Appreciate the response, ERMD.  I'm regretting my example in the OP as it seemingly failed to help anyone understand my question. 

What I was trying to get at is how is the experience of LDS children different now vs. in previous decades within the context of LDS programs (e.g., seminary, church-sponsored scouting, young women's programs, etc.).  And what I got was a lot of examples of how things are different for LDS kids within the broader American culture/experience (and we can all agree that the present decade looks very different from my 1980's or Garden Girl's 1950's--for many, many reasons).  

Do you think LDS programs for LDS kids have changed (e.g., new content, new emphasis, new teaching methods) in response changes in the broader society?  For example, does an LDS 14 year-old sitting in a 9th grade seminary class have a different experience in that seminary class then his/her counterpart did 30 years ago?  If so, how? 

--Erik 

PS.  Don't know what's on on your iPod, but I promise I won't judge--I've got a few Tool albums myself (all of them, in fact)

;0)

I wish I could help, I've only had one calling in Young Women's, teaching the Laurels years ago.  And the last time my youngest was in Young Men's was over a year ago.  I don't think much has changed, personally, since they still have YM's and YW's each week.  One week is combined, the others separate.  Years ago we had a SP that had family week the first week of every month so maybe there wasn't even YM's or YW"s that week, but can't remember. But the programs have basically stayed similar to years past.  Youth conferences may have become a little less unorganized.  Things seem to be more streamlined, more spiritual. I don't remember a missionary prep class years ago, but that doesn't mean they didn't have them.  I wonder if they have temple prep for the youth where they didn't before.  I'm quite in the dark, so embarrassing I even comment.  

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by Tacenda

[ERMD]

4 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Appreciate the response, ERMD.  I'm regretting my example in the OP as it seemingly failed to help anyone understand my question. 

What I was trying to get at is how is the experience of LDS children different now vs. in previous decades within the context of LDS programs (e.g., seminary, church-sponsored scouting, young women's programs, etc.).  And what I got was a lot of examples of how things are different for LDS kids within the broader American culture/experience (and we can all agree that the present decade looks very different from my 1980's or Garden Girl's 1950's--for many, many reasons).  

Do you think LDS programs for LDS kids have changed (e.g., new content, new emphasis, new teaching methods) in response changes in the broader society?  For example, does an LDS 14 year-old sitting in a 9th grade seminary class have a different experience in that seminary class then his/her counterpart did 30 years ago?  If so, how? 

--Erik 

PS.  Don't know what's on on your iPod, but I promise I won't judge--I've got a few Tool albums myself (all of them, in fact)

;0)

More responsibility is being placed on the kids to be active learners and not just passively accept (or not) information.  Teachers are becoming more facilitators than lecturers.   The emphasis is "teaching the way the Savior taught"--asking more questions and looking for real thought, not just parroting back information.

Slipknot, Disturbed, Five Finger Death Punch, Metallica to name a few...

[Five Solas]

2 hours ago, ERMD said:

..."teaching the way the Savior taught"...

That would be a tall order for LDS seminary teachers (or anyone else for that matter), given Jesus taught with miracles and wonders.  And if the New Testament is to be believed, he asked a lot of rhetorical questions and he said things people didn't understand, things that were "hard" (John 6:60) and even scandalously offensive (John 8:44).  And he spoke quite a lot about Hell (more than anyone else in the Bible). 

LDS youth instructors have begun teaching like Jesus?  Forgive me, ERMD, but whatever it is they may be doing these days--ain't likely much of that. 

Perhaps you meant to say they were now teaching like the Apostle Paul...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  Solid playlist

[ERMD]

23 hours ago, Five Solas said:

That would be a tall order for LDS seminary teachers (or anyone else for that matter), given Jesus taught with miracles and wonders.  And if the New Testament is to be believed, he asked a lot of rhetorical questions and he said things people didn't understand, things that were "hard" (John 6:60) and even scandalously offensive (John 8:44).  And he spoke quite a lot about Hell (more than anyone else in the Bible). 

LDS youth instructors have begun teaching like Jesus?  Forgive me, ERMD, but whatever it is they may be doing these days--ain't likely much of that. 

Perhaps you meant to say they were now teaching like the Apostle Paul...

;0)

--Erik

PS.  Solid playlist

You asked how the programs changed with respect to content, message, and emphasis. That is what we are trying to do.  Of course we will fall short, but we do the best we can.  

Criticize if you will.