For LDS with kids, how is it different today?

[Five Solas]

It would be an excellent question for the oldest of my younger sisters, herself born into the LDS Church (early 1970’s), now mother of four children, the oldest of whom recently entered his teenage years.  She & her husband/my brother-in-law are devout LDS and theirs is a model family, their house adorned with LDS imagery, including temples and one red-cloaked, long-haired fellow who keeps his eyes fixed on their living room.  

(FYI, she would never be found on a site like this.  When she’s on the internet, it’s sites where she’s in control—Facebook, Pinterest—where she can readily block people & filter ideas that don’t conform to her worldview.) 

One of these day’s I’ll have an opportunity to ask her, and I’ll be doing so out of genuine curiosity.  Is the second decade of the 21^st century pretty much the same as it was for LDS kids in the 1980’s (pick your decade)?  Does time more/less stand still for faithful LDS?  And if not, how exactly is this decade different?

I’ll give perhaps a silly example of something I assume doesn’t happen anymore:  In my 9^th grade LDS Seminary class (Richfield Junior High in Sevier County, Utah—home of the “Roadrunners”), we were taught about the evils of certain pop music bands and singer/songwriters.  KISS, we were told, stood for “knights in Satan’s service.”  AC/DC meant “against Christ/destroy Christ” and David Bowie (honestly, the only one I truly admired on their hit list) shouldn’t be listened to because he was a “bi-sexual.”  I’m guessing contemporary LDS seminary classes wouldn’t devote time for pop music critiques—but maybe I’m wrong. 

What do folks think?  How is growing up LDS different for kids today? 

--Erik

PS. For those fond of the long-haired, vaguely Nordic-looking representations of Jesus - consider...

[JLHPROF]

14 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

What do folks think?  How is growing up LDS different for kids today? 

Well, I remember my mother, seeing a neighbor giving me a cup of her Coca Cola, come running and snatch it out of my hand.

Pretty sure those days are long gone.

[Storm Rider]

Utah is a culture unto itself - it is exaggerated compared to LDS culture outside of those areas where LDS people are in the majority.  

It is curious to contemplate this issue of being "open- minded" or remaining open to all influences.  Is a Religious losing something by being in a monastery or convent?  Should a person of faith guard against negative influences?  Are there negative influences or are all influences healthy for the liberal individual?  What does it mean to be closed-minded?

For me I see a difference between creating fearful stories based on hearsay or lies versus promoting a teaching that each should be careful of the influences we expose ourselves.  I don't watch television and have not for several years.  There are times when I would like to see a show or a sporting event, but not so much that I would have cable television in my home again. 

From your stories you cited above it is evident that some Mormon communities were/are very provincial.  I suspect that this will continue the world over for all groups depending upon a given location. 

[Traela]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Well, I remember my mother, seeing a neighbor giving me a cup of her Coca Cola, come running and snatch it out of my hand.

Pretty sure those days are long gone.

 

And in contrast, my ward's Ladies in the Kitchen always had a bottle of Tab on hand. 

 

[webbles]

I'm not sure how to answer this question since everybody grew up differently.  For me, I have no recollection of anything like your example in 9th grade.  I grew up in a small town in Arizona and then later in St. George.  So, I had experience in both a town that had very few members and a town that was pretty much all members.  In Arizona, I remember home teaching families that never came to church.  They drank, smoke, etc.  Then in St. George, we home taught fully active members, former bishops/relief society presidents, etc.

My children have so far been raised in Utah valley.  They are currently in the age range I was in Arizona.  So if I compared them with my experiences in Arizona, I would say they (and I) have it much easier.  They don't have to deal with smoking and drinking being the norm, not being able to play because I'm Mormon, etc.  But if I compare them with my St. George experiences, I would say it is pretty much the same.

[Jeanne]

48 minutes ago, Traela said:

 

And in contrast, my ward's Ladies in the Kitchen always had a bottle of Tab on hand. 

 

Tab!!  My sister and I loved this and were allowed to drink it.  Funny thing..scared to death to have a cherry coke.  My parents were hooked on Dr. Pepper..but hey, nothing wrong with that.

[Rivers]

I'm very nervous about raising kids in this age.  The world is getting very weird.

[Garden Girl]

I suppose I notice the changes more than most, having grown up in the '50's... today's world of teens is far different and not just because I was LDS.  In fact, it was far easier to live LDS standards because these were pretty much the norm to begin with...

Examples... almost in every aspect of society...

Fashions... one piece bathing suits were the norm, a two piece raised eyebrows ... the skimpy bikini was so rare they wrote a song about it --  "she wore an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny yellow polka dot bikini..."  and, we would have never dreamed of dressing so grungy or casually for school... we wore dresses/skirts/sweaters, never pants as they weren't allowed.  The fellows wore levis (no holes), or white peggers, etc.  Girls' skirts/dresses were at the knee at their highest...

Tattoos were only for the "rowdies" and pierced ears were what the "cheap" girls wore (I was 40 years old before I got my ears pierced).

In other words, modest dress was the norm, although there were sun dresses with straps, and strapless dresses/formals (LDS girls wore some type of matching short jacket or stole)

Hair for girls was pony tails if long, or just nicely curled if shorter... boys wore "crew cuts"... usually nothing below the ears, etc.

Music/Dance... While I grew up with Rock n Roll, it was happy type of music (See Ya Later Allegator, After While Crocodile), or my favorite, Fats Domino's Blueberry Hill... and of course we still loved to jitterbug to the Big Bands like Glenn Miller or the Dorseys, etc.  Romantic songs that we slow danced to but didn't bump and grind in suggestive  movements like the kids dance today.

Movies:  No swearing... no nudity... even married couples were portrayed as sleeping in twin beds.  Just good stories that are classics today...

Social... We girls wouldn't be caught dead calling a boy on the phone... a girl's reputation could be ruined if she was at all "easy" etc... and that included girls that smoked or would take a drink.  Somehow we still managed to have fun during spring break at the beach...

I could go on but you get the difference from when I was a teen and the teens today... and I was very active in school  -- student council, cheerleader. etc etc.  I loved those years growing up...

GG

 

[Tacenda]

14 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Tab!!  My sister and I loved this and were allowed to drink it.  Funny thing..scared to death to have a cherry coke.  My parents were hooked on Dr. Pepper..but hey, nothing wrong with that.

Yep!  Every Saturday morning before cleaning the house, mom and I would have our glass of Tab!  Then Pepsi Light, Coke, New Coke, Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, Diet Coke and currently Diet Dr. Pepper.  Probably couldn't function without the stuff!!  

[thesometimesaint]

Teach them correct principles, and let them govern themselves.

[Meadowchik]

Growing up in Texas,  we ran the neighbourhood on our own, I was exploring the forest alone at 5.  My parents read to us, expected us to do our chores and make school our jobs. Church was required, although they became mellowed with the youngest kids as they learned to separate their identities from our achievements and behaviours.

We had some kooky Sunday school teachers but seminary helped against that. Our seminary teachers were solid. The chaperones at stake dances have my older brothers a hard time, and then later my younger sister.

Today, we're in a small ward and the youth teachers are not kooky. But the youth are few and related to half the ward. We're probably the most worldly family in the ward: lots of computers, YouTube, pop culture both American and French. My husband and I drink Pepsi and watch R rates movies, but he never was really atune to movie ratings.

I suppose I err on the side of exposure and openness and freethought. Except when I don't. I think we spend more time talking and also empasizing kindness than my family did growing up. Each of our kids struggle with this, some on the short end of opportunities making friends, others with advantages. 

But I think they're all well aware of others and are friends with each other despite DAILY (grrr) arguing. I'm proud of that. 

[readstoomuch]

They have much more secular influence in their lives.  Sex is constantly bombarding their music, commercials, shows, etc.  It is not assumed that most people go to Church regardless of their religion.  They always have a phone in their hand and would much rather text than have a conversation.  There are more activities starting at a younger age for them to get involved (and over involved) in.  More kids use pot and legalization in many states sends a confusing message to them.  I think they are actually more careful about having intercourse, but that has also meant more behaviors short of sex such as petting.

I don`t like to get into the tirades about talking about how evil the world is, but I do think that message to young people is that many things are not evil.  Abortion for example.  It had only been legal for three years when I entered high school.  Getting an abortion was a big deal in 1977.  Now, I think abortion is just something you have to do if you have an unplanned pregnancy-at least that is a mindset for many.  

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Yep!  Every Saturday morning before cleaning the house, mom and I would have our glass of Tab!  Then Pepsi Light, Coke, New Coke, Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, Diet Coke and currently Diet Dr. Pepper.  Probably couldn't function without the stuff!!  

Tab finally came back on the market (sans saccharine, I assume), so I brought home a can for my Back-to-the-Future loving son.  He was not impressed.  Now I just need to find some Pepsi Free.

Edited June 5, 2016 by cinepro

[Jeanne]

13 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

I suppose I notice the changes more than most, having grown up in the '50's... today's world of teens is far different and not just because I was LDS.  In fact, it was far easier to live LDS standards because these were pretty much the norm to begin with...

Examples... almost in every aspect of society...

Fashions... one piece bathing suits were the norm, a two piece raised eyebrows ... the skimpy bikini was so rare they wrote a song about it --  "she wore an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny yellow polka dot bikini..."  and, we would have never dreamed of dressing so grungy or casually for school... we wore dresses/skirts/sweaters, never pants as they weren't allowed.  The fellows wore levis (no holes), or white peggers, etc.  Girls' skirts/dresses were at the knee at their highest...

Tattoos were only for the "rowdies" and pierced ears were what the "cheap" girls wore (I was 40 years old before I got my ears pierced).

In other words, modest dress was the norm, although there were sun dresses with straps, and strapless dresses/formals (LDS girls wore some type of matching short jacket or stole)

Hair for girls was pony tails if long, or just nicely curled if shorter... boys wore "crew cuts"... usually nothing below the ears, etc.

Music/Dance... While I grew up with Rock n Roll, it was happy type of music (See Ya Later Allegator, After While Crocodile), or my favorite, Fats Domino's Blueberry Hill... and of course we still loved to jitterbug to the Big Bands like Glenn Miller or the Dorseys, etc.  Romantic songs that we slow danced to but didn't bump and grind in suggestive  movements like the kids dance today.

Movies:  No swearing... no nudity... even married couples were portrayed as sleeping in twin beds.  Just good stories that are classics today...

Social... We girls wouldn't be caught dead calling a boy on the phone... a girl's reputation could be ruined if she was at all "easy" etc... and that included girls that smoked or would take a drink.  Somehow we still managed to have fun during spring break at the beach...

I could go on but you get the difference from when I was a teen and the teens today... and I was very active in school  -- student council, cheerleader. etc etc.  I loved those years growing up...

GG

 

I so recognize all this..I remember a hand me down poodle skirt and I was so proud!  Although I was a real youngster in the 50's I remember even the "cool" vehicles!  My teens were net stockings..pants were worn to school only on "pants day"!  Believe it or not..wearing nylons with keds was okay. I grew up on country western music and we had a family band.  Patsy Cline, Marty Robbins, Buck Owens..Roy Clark and all those guys.  I couldn't handle Tammy Wynette for some reason...but loved Dolly!  Elvis and Beatles came next.  It was a good time..we ate dirt and sucked on rocks..didn't worry about dumb stuff. So simple.  Making our own fun..built I don't know how many little houses out of sage brush and old logs.

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, Five Solas said:

It would be an excellent question for the oldest of my younger sisters, herself born into the LDS Church (early 1970’s), now mother of four children, the oldest of whom recently entered his teenage years.  She & her husband/my brother-in-law are devout LDS and theirs is a model family, their house adorned with LDS imagery, including temples and one red-cloaked, long-haired fellow who keeps his eyes fixed on their living room.  

(FYI, she would never be found on a site like this.  When she’s on the internet, it’s sites where she’s in control—Facebook, Pinterest—where she can readily block people & filter ideas that don’t conform to her worldview.) 

Does she know you have such a patronizing attitude about her life?

[Five Solas]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Does she know you have such a patronizing attitude about her life?

There's a tension here to be sure & a bit of humor as well.  But I wouldn't choose that word to describe it, even though your inference is understandable. 

[Five Solas]

16 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

I suppose I notice the changes more than most, having grown up in the '50's... today's world of teens is far different and not just because I was LDS.  In fact, it was far easier to live LDS standards because these were pretty much the norm to begin with...

Examples... almost in every aspect of society...

Fashions... one piece bathing suits were the norm, a two piece raised eyebrows ... the skimpy bikini was so rare they wrote a song about it --  "she wore an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny yellow polka dot bikini..."  and, we would have never dreamed of dressing so grungy or casually for school... we wore dresses/skirts/sweaters, never pants as they weren't allowed.  The fellows wore levis (no holes), or white peggers, etc.  Girls' skirts/dresses were at the knee at their highest...

Tattoos were only for the "rowdies" and pierced ears were what the "cheap" girls wore (I was 40 years old before I got my ears pierced).

In other words, modest dress was the norm, although there were sun dresses with straps, and strapless dresses/formals (LDS girls wore some type of matching short jacket or stole)

Hair for girls was pony tails if long, or just nicely curled if shorter... boys wore "crew cuts"... usually nothing below the ears, etc.

Music/Dance... While I grew up with Rock n Roll, it was happy type of music (See Ya Later Allegator, After While Crocodile), or my favorite, Fats Domino's Blueberry Hill... and of course we still loved to jitterbug to the Big Bands like Glenn Miller or the Dorseys, etc.  Romantic songs that we slow danced to but didn't bump and grind in suggestive  movements like the kids dance today.

Movies:  No swearing... no nudity... even married couples were portrayed as sleeping in twin beds.  Just good stories that are classics today...

Social... We girls wouldn't be caught dead calling a boy on the phone... a girl's reputation could be ruined if she was at all "easy" etc... and that included girls that smoked or would take a drink.  Somehow we still managed to have fun during spring break at the beach...

I could go on but you get the difference from when I was a teen and the teens today... and I was very active in school  -- student council, cheerleader. etc etc.  I loved those years growing up...

GG

 

Appreciate the perspective, CG.

I suppose if we wanted--we could take it back even earlier (assuming we'd lived a very long time):  We could wring our hands & lament Coco Chanel's introduction of the "Little Black Dress" in the 1910's--and how much easier it was to live by LDS standards prior to her upending women's fashion in the 20th century.

;0)

But on a more serious & topical note--how exactly do evolving tastes and mores in the larger American culture change the experience for kids being raised in the LDS tradition today?  You give us some examples of the former, drawing on your personal recollections--but you said nothing of the latter (your merely leave your readers to infer things must be getting harder/getting worse).  Do you have any first-hand observations/examples of changes, specific to the contemporary LDS childhood experience?  Could be from grand-kids, extended family, friends with grand-kids being raised LDS.  No worries if your answer is no.  

--Erik

 

[Meadowchik]

Erik imo a major factor is distracting technology.

There really is something to being bored and forced to occupy yourself, and that excitement you have when there is something interesting. With tech today, people still get bored but have much more to do while bored!

I think this can impact all areas of life, including church and spiritual experiences. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Meadowchik

[Five Solas]

11 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Erik imo a major factor is distracting technology.

There really is something to bring votes and forced to occupy yourself, and that excitement you have when there is something interesting. With tech today, people still get bored but have much more to do while bored!

I think this can impact all areas of life, including church and spiritual experiences. 

Heh, and I'm afraid this discussion board rather proves the point.  My 3 year-old son is upstairs having a nap, my 5 and 7 year-old daughters are playing in the wading pool I filled for them and they're effectively watering most of the back yard (it's 85 degrees in Seattle's U-District right now).  And I'm sitting on my deck under a tree (Japanese maple, I think it is)- with my computer (and an IPA freshly poured into a glass I kept in the freezer).  Technology...

:0)

 

[Five Solas]

21 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

...

It is curious to contemplate this issue of being "open- minded" or remaining open to all influences.  Is a Religious losing something by being in a monastery or convent?  Should a person of faith guard against negative influences?  Are there negative influences or are all influences healthy for the liberal individual?  What does it mean to be closed-minded?

...

Agree, there's some interesting questions here.  Nehor called me out for being condescending towards my sister in the way I characterized her internet usage.  But I didn't mean it quite the way he (and perhaps others) took it.  I think it's born of some necessity: She's made her choice and she's not letting herself get distracted by people and ideas she's already decided not to listen to (she's raising four kids so it's not like she's got a lot of time for debate and introspection).  And it's not hard to imagine scenarios where this behavior would be a good thing.

Thanks for the observation, Storm Rider

--Erik 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Five Solas

[Tacenda]

I had dinner with some friends last night and we talked about how different the young adults are compared to how we were at their age. For one thing it didn't seem like too many return missionaries in our day became inactive immediately following their missions, so that's one thing.  And I believe it's been discussed here, the epidemic of that.  And I don't even know if it's because of controversial things in church history.  I just think they don't feel as tied to following all the rules that we did at their age.  I believe it's that we were very conditioned back then.  And maybe through the years more and more are thinking for themselves and not afraid of being what or how they want to be.  Not thinking they have to do the marriage thing right away, or have that many kids, if any at all.  

Maybe it's technology like has been mentioned.  They have a huge ability to see what the rest of the world is doing.  Or maybe they don't live in a vacuum.  I can't put my thumb on it.  But it does seem like there is more freedom.  

[Storm Rider]

11 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

Agree, there's some interesting questions here.  Nehor called me out for being condescending towards my sister in the way I characterized her internet usage.  But I didn't mean it quite the way he (and perhaps others) took it.  I think it's born of some necessity: She's made her choice and she's not letting herself get distracted by people and ideas she's already decided not to listen to (she's raising four kids so it's not like she's got a lot of time for debate and introspection).  And it's not hard to imagine scenarios where this behavior would be a good thing.

Thanks for the observation, Storm Rider

--Erik 

Erik, you bring up some really great questions.  I see many individuals who seem conditioned or feel compelled to be open to all influences in fear of being closed-minded or, that wonderful buzz word of today, intolerant. There is a real fear of making a decision and being committed to it - focused on it.  

Who says that something is right because that means there is something wrong elsewhere and that is unacceptable.  Everyone has to be right and no one can be wrong.  In this kind of environment old moral standards are discarded as being inept, unenlightened, and inappropriate.  Today, if someone feels like it then it is acceptable.  We go so far as to accept that because someone says they are (insert whatever you want - race, gender, etc.) then they are and no one may question them.  

I think education from elementary through university is responsible to a significant degree for this transformation of society.  However, the media has played their part to emphasize the stupidity of the old moral order and the complete bliss of the new tolerance, equality, and inclusiveness. 

[BlueDreams]

There's a 21.5 year age gap between me and my youngest sibling. With several aged somewhere in their teens/tweens. I was a child in the 90's and a teen in the early 00's. So my age is when the Internet first came common. My brothers are the age that have grown up on it. My youngest and my friends youngest can usually navigate a phone or computer before they can read. 

I honestly feel that much of what you mentioned seems more provential than something that happens everywhere. And many of the differences between me and my bros also has to do with wealth, geography, laxity, and opportunities. I wouldn't describe either of our childhoods as sheltered from the world. All of us have fairly diverse groups of friends growing up (mine maybe a little more) of different religious/ethnic backgrounds and such. I found out about other religious controversial things through the Internet back in the day, though a couple things were touched on. My one bro recently discussed polygamy/polyandry in their Sunday school class with the essays. Etc. most things were general suggestions as opposed to specific condemnations. The closest was rap but a couple of people (never in an official setting). But it was pretty obvious that had to do with exposure. Now my bro likes "JamestheMormon" (see YouTube). 

From my mother's hen to mine there's a big gap. But that has just as much (if not more) to do with external factors such as geography, demographics, SES, etc. as opposed to religion. 

For my sibs today the biggie is tech. I have 3 bros who've sturggled getting q balance with it. 2 with porn and 1 with excessive gaming. Sometimes having access to the world is t always a good thing. 

 

With luv, 

BD

[Five Solas]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

...

Now my bro likes "JamestheMormon" (see YouTube). 

...

Wow!  I took the first link & I saw people with tattoos, just like Garden Girl wrote about.  In what appears to be Provo.  This must be like, end times or something (probably was for local 911 dispatch while they were shooting this)...

;0)

Appreciate the post, Blue (Can I call you Blue?  I'm comfortable with a bit of ambiguity.)

--Erik

[BlueDreams]

14 hours ago, Five Solas said:

Wow!  I took the first link & I saw people with tattoos, just like Garden Girl wrote about.  In what appears to be Provo.  This must be like, end times or something (probably was for local 911 dispatch while they were shooting this)...

;0)

Appreciate the post, Blue (Can I call you Blue?  I'm comfortable with a bit of ambiguity.)

--Erik

You mean like this chica: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865580409/Tatooed-Mormon-Al-Fox-shares-her-conversion-story-in-new-video.html?pg=all

She was a temple worker on my shift for a little bit before she got married and was doing firesides around about not judging and what not. Speaking of firesides, I did a presentation for a joint ward activity on sex for married couples...in Spanish Fork.

Things change. Mormons are not that isolated from the world....particularly considering many are converts or 1st/2nd gen Mormons. If there's anything, that has to be one of the biggest generational shifts (as well as a U.S. one). Members are global and spread across it too. You can't use even the US to give a quintessential "Mormon experience" per se. And one certainly  can't use a single ward, or even a few wards, to determine LDS generational trends. We're just not that monolithic.

 

With luv,

BD (what my moniker is usually shortened to....but blue works)

Edited June 6, 2016 by BlueDreams