Rivers

Good question. We really don’t know much about outer darkness. Were they condemned or did they willingly walk away? I like to believe that even they have hope for repentance.

Oops. Duplicate thread.

I recently listened to an episode on a Catholic podcast called Pints with Aquinas. The episode was about Hell. The podcast host had some truly frightening things to say. First he quoted Christ’s teaching that the way to eternal life is narrow and that most people will go to Hell. He then quoted several Catholic Saints over the centuries who gave horrifying descriptions of Hell which literally lasts forever. The very concept of anybody condemned to being tortured forever is unimaginable. Especially when it’s the majority of the human family. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy

I recently listened to an episode on a Catholic podcast called Pints with Aquinas. The episode was about Hell. The podcast host had some truly frightening things to say. First he quoted Christ’s teaching that the way to eternal life is narrow and that most people will go to Hell. He then quoted several Catholic Saints over the centuries who gave horrifying descriptions of Hell which literally lasts forever. The very concept of anybody condemned to being tortured forever is unimaginable. Especially when it’s the majority of the human family. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy

I’m late to the thread, but I’ll go with natural law having the ledger. Justice means that choices have consequences. That’s a universal law. Cause and effect. Action and reaction (I apologize if I sound like the Merovingian from Matrix Reloaded). We can’t truly have agency without consequence.

When we talk about apostasy in the church, we focus a lot on temples, priesthood keys, ordinances, prophets and apostles, etc. Terryl and Fiona focus a lot on our understanding of God as something that was lost. They throw Saint Augustine under the bus for this. They also put a lot of blame on the reformers. God went from a loving parent to the angry God of Jonathan Edwards.

I have been a huge fan of Terryl and Fiona since their first book The God Who Weeps. All Things New builds upon the the theological foundation laid out in the that book. I appreciate the Givens’ work because their theological ideas just make a lot of sense to me. They have been immensely helpful to me in my own little faith journey. They have been accused by some as putting lipstick on a pig as they put a positive spin on Mormonism. I, however, prefer to use the analogy of Johnny Lingo giving Mahana a makeover. Restoration theology has always been beautiful. Terryl and Fiona

Purification, sanctification, transformation, etc. is the whole purpose of the plan of salvation. The Atonement is God’s way of helping us along the journey. By descending below all things, he’s taking that journey with us. That’s the meaning of the name Immanuel: God with us.

In a recent FairMormon podcast, Blake Ostler said something to the effect that while Christ experienced this agony, he shared with us the darkness that we all experience.

Is there a name for that one?

I would say that being reborn as new creatures in Christ is the same as entering into a higher covenant relationship. Everything boils down to a relationship with God and with each other. The two great commandments. The Atonement is literally oneness.

I think they would say that Christ suffered for the sorrow that comes sin rather the sin itself. So somehow He is able to succor us in our sorrows which lessens the suffering we experience from our own bad choices.

If I understand Paul, he taught that the crucifixion satisfied the Law of Moses which brings us into a higher law or higher covenant. So the crucifixion becomes a symbol of the New and Everlasting Covenant. I just came up with that on the spot.

If I understand Terryl and Fiona correctly, they propose that Christ suffering for sins and suffering for sorrows is one and the same. That is because sin is woundedness in their point of view. If this is the case, Gethsemene really is more important than the cross.

Isn’t it the theory that the Atonement satisfies all the intelligences or something like that?