Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Meadowchik

  1. But what are the consequences of trying to distinguish between "convenience due to irresponsibility" and genuine good faith trying to do the right thing? There's no way to properly guage that, and there's so much moral hazard in such interference. I say societies take an approach they haven't fully done: equal rights for women, support for mothers and babies, to put it simply. Make the world a better place for bearing and raising children. Let's try that instead of wading into the murky waters of policing women's reproductive lives.
  2. Yes! Making abortion impossible does not magically make the life work out for the child, if the child is born. It is a fool's errand to dictate continuing gestation as a solution. There's so much better, effective and righteous ways to channel that energy.
  3. It doesn't matter what you think about bias. The unborn is in her. She is the steward, regardless of what people or laws say. Any form of control will be counterproductive. But support? Support can change the world. Let go of the premise that we can control women's bodies and embrace the concept of respecting women and supporting the awesome responsibilities conveyed to them.
  4. This position is extremely disrespectful of women. Disrespect of women is the greatest underlying social cause of abortion.
  5. One thing I'm saying is that if anyone is entitled to do such math, the woman is. Certainly not anyone else more than she is. So yes, you don't get as much say about how she manages the life inside her.
  6. It's true that LDS theology does cover the bases. No created spirit will lose the opportunity to have a body and choose. On another extreme barring any life after death, the unborn who dies before birth will likely have little to no awareness of even being alive at all. But those are just examples of speculative assumptions. We do know, though, that the unborn live in women, and that most are never born and yet our bodies continue on for decades renewing the process to potentially form new life. Nature, God, or accident has given us this faculty. Women have been treated as less-than for too long. My thought is that the woes of poverty and pregnancy loss are largely connected to devaluing women. And the removal of federal protections seems to me like a regression that won't help women and won't help babies.
  7. If there really is a sincere concern, it should be demonstrated in understanding the moral dilemma and sending aid, certainly not just in trying to criminalise, if at all.
  8. Not just the mother individually, but all she has to manage, including the health and safety of herself, her unborn, any other children or loved ones she cares for. For sure women have been faced with this dilemma: "one or more of us will likely die if we don't change this situation. But I cannot change the situation if I am pregnant." Iow hardships can mean more than obstacles that we will overcome. Sometimes we don't, or others in our care don't.
  9. An LDS woman writes on Medium: "I have always loved this painting for its contrast: God’s overflowing force of creation approaches Adam’s lifeless body. Adam’s delicate, downturned hand awaits quickening. But this time around, I saw more. Adam’s body lies in beautiful Renaissance repose, yes, but lifeless? No. His muscles are defined; his flesh is the same golden chiaroscuro tones as the Lord’s. Adam’s eyes do not stare blankly, he’s looking straight at God. Certainly his heart is beating. Yet just as certainly, something is still missing. Although Adam’s body is, literally, the picture of health, he has no soul. I look back at God and His crew. Tucked under His arm is a figure different from the angels. A mature woman. It’s Eve, and she’s paying close attention to God’s outstretched hand. It is as if He has told her “Watch how I do this, it’s going to be your job from now on.” Her eyes are fixed on the most famous detail of this fresco: the fingers that almost touch. Tonight I am drawn to the space between the fingers: the space between God and the fully incarnate human. I believe that space belongs to women. It is heartbreaking when the state lays claim to it." https://medium.com/@erikaepmunson/eves-choice-8a7c68290de5 This reminds me of what Calm was saying.
  10. Speaking of ethics, I hate hate hate the trolley problem! So binary. I always want to say no to both choices and create an option C. I think so many advances in humanity are results of people creating the C because a or b was unacceptable.
  11. By that token we can't be sure about the rightness of anything. But we may be as sure about it or more sure about it as we are about anything else we think we know. There can be clear moments like that in life. But less clear ones too. Yet it still crucial to respect that it's *their* moment in their life. We can offer grace and support which may improve the chances of clarity and courage in the face of their challenges.
  12. When the people and state fail to support women and any vulnerable people, as they have and continue to fail to do, what option does a a person have? Their stuck with what they can manage alone.
  13. How do you know they are? Even if they say "My body...?" Because ultimately their audience is other people who are trying to usurp government over their body. Their bodies certainly don't belong to other people or the state. Each one of us is the steward of our body. "My body, my choice" is a fair expression of ownership but also stewardship. Many of these women are defending a woman's right to obey God's will when it comes to their stewardship of their bodies.
  14. This sounds really ignorant. Hardship can cause total breakdown. Including total breakdown of health up to death death, abuse, and separation of parent/s from their children. You're doing the math for others, and making assumptions about cost, when you don't have the information. And you don't have to live with the consequences.
  15. I am talking about the obvious outliers, but also the less obvious situations which are similar but differently-calculated based on measurements only the mother can make.
  16. No, bearing the child might not be the best choice. You cannot know that--you do not know every woman's circumstances. I think you've skewed what responsibility can look like. Sometimes aborting might be right for the the unborn.
  17. Well that's the thing, I think in such a situation we may feel very clearly that it is right to end the pregnancy. I know women who have felt like this, being completely committed to the interests of their unborn child.
  18. That doesn't sound right. Sometimes abortion is a decision in favor of the interests of the aborted. Like someone who's body is incompatible with life.
  19. Because it's not about what is fair. It is about what a mother can and will do, given her circumstances, most of which she doesn't choose either. She can only do the best she can with the situation she is in.
  20. You're using it in direct reference to a legal conflict where government is usurping control over women's bodies.
  21. The mother bears the risk and the child within her, it's her province to manage.
  22. I loved my mother's service. The priesthood leaders were recognized, and the bishop conducted but only said about a paragraph of remarks. The only speakers were us their children, just as mom wanted. She wanted the proper burial clothing and gave me permission in advance to help dress her body. Even though I left the church, she trusted me and felt that since I had been endowed that was enough. It was a beautiful experience for me and I am glad I was able to care for her remains in the manner she wanted. It was special to me because it was special to her. My brother dedicated the grave, but only from a distance because of the rules at the military cemetery. Again, because that's what she wanted. I believe that if you have a good relationship with the deceased, one of the sweetest expressions of love is to respect their wishes in death.
  23. Like her own safety, for one. Direct threats to her own health, and indirect threats. Pregnancy can stop a woman from working and supporting herself and other children. It can cause relationship breakdown with her partner which heightens her personal risk. For instance(s).
  24. I don't disagree about value. It's just that the circumstances are different. The situation of living completely inside another person is fundamentally unique, posing various very specific challenges to the pregnant woman.
  25. There are women who abort who want the baby more than anything in the world but do so because the baby cannot survive, and other concerns, concerns which are often complicated by the laws restricting their decisions.
  • Create New...