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Meadowchik

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Everything posted by Meadowchik

  1. No, it's more specific. Decriminalizing abortion will incentivize more positive action to help women. We need to focus on the evidence that matters. From other topics, I think we agree that some problems are best not criminalized and some must be criminalized. The evidence needs to specifically be about the relationship between abortion prevention and criminalization. Do you have evidence that abortion bans decrease overall abortion rates? It is my understanding that decreased abortion rates are more associated with less restrictions and more help for women including access to birth co
  2. I developed my point countering your claim of a false dichotomy here: But afaik you did not respond.
  3. I am so sorry for your loss. In the cases of other women who reacted differently, I think empathy goes further to getting to the solution. People can have all sorts of reactions during trauma. The point in this case is that the thing that happened happened to them, and what they did afterword was how they managed the trauma. IMO it's not a situation that merits penalties and legal threats, but instead assistance and education.
  4. I'm grateful for exmo spaces, and this one. Each one is like a hospital and though I don't want to live in a hospital, my life is enriched because of them all.
  5. I wasn't specifically but thanks for reminding me of it.
  6. Is that a reason to send someone to prison? How about getting help for the traumatized woman? How about fining (at most) the other or helping them find a more appropriate method of burial? DAs do not have to pursue cases and oftentimes the choices are politically-motivated. Suffice it to say (as I said originally when I said caution and circumspection is in order) that we should watch out for instances like these and be vigilant about how law enforcement is used.
  7. El Salvador bans abortion with no explicit exceptions. There are women in prison there who miscarried or delivered stillborn babies. In the examples in America, those cases were in states with abortion restrictions and where abortion is a controversial issue. In other words, those prosecutions could be examples of spontaneous abortion being criminalised indirectly. Why prosecute someone who buried a stillborn baby to manage their grief? Why prosecute someone who discards their miscarried fetus in a moment of trauma and panic?
  8. I was answering your direct question: "Do you also deeply believe that helping people and not criminalizing homicide is morally better and would save more lives than any other option? " You assumed I would be dismissive of its points when I've been an active participant on this thread and I have consistently engaged responsively and with substance to other posters and ideas. CFR of me exhibiting a pattern of dismissiveness. Consistent disagreement is not dismissiveness. By the way, to address the line of questioning in your post, I have presented arguments for why abortion is
  9. Abortion is not an exception. It is not comparable to killing a human being that has already been born. Look, you posted an article while also mentioning me and making assumptions about my reaction to it. You crossed that line into assuming and it's only reasonable for me to think you're projecting stuff in it onto me. That's indeed how you introduced it. So check yourself please.
  10. A simpler more common-sense explanation is that this is an enormously expensive global crisis and a vaccine is incredibly helpful and valuable.
  11. What about this article is compelling to you? I don't see in it anything that I haven't already deeply considered and processed already. And I feel very deeply that helping women and not criminalizing abortion is morally better and saves more babies than any other option. Try to remember how you sound to other people who live the real challenges of pregnancy. Try to consider that I've already walked and talked these things for many years and let them rest in my heart and mind and listened and counselled with people and held babes in my arms and given of my own life for them. I w
  12. A woman can separate herself from the impact of child rearing without killing her child. A woman cannot separate herself from the risks of childbirth and continued pregnancy in the same way. The attachment is literal, not merely legal or social. I absolutely address that by arguing in favor of what reduces abortions and what helps the unborn and babies in general. A law criminalizing abortion if it causes more suffering would be a pyrrhic victory indeed, right? It's pretty concrete and logical, and stating the obvious issues related to the road of criminalization. Again
  13. El Salvador has had some issues blurring the line. AFAIK there have been some cases attempted in the US. There is an example of a woman being penalised for burying a stillborn baby, and another for discarding a miscarried fetus in panic.
  14. I also think that spouses should have the right to leave their marriages without cause. That does not mean I want all married people to get divorced, though. And before you object to the comparison, how about we agree on what the situations have in common? Do you agree that the survival of the unborn is complex and dependent on many variables? Do you agree that as human beings we can impact the survival rates of the unborn? Hopefully you agree with both of the above. I think that the attitudes and approaches towards caring for the unborn and for marriage impacts their overall h
  15. I love this post. I am with you, I am so glad my husband and I pushed through the difficult times so far. It's still really difficult at the moment, living separately since he works in a different country from where our children need to be, but we are close and our relationship is good. Also it warms my heart to see someone else who doesn't do hashtags. LOL.
  16. You're objecting to lack of complete correspondence between donating blood and pregnancy when I have clearly stated multiple times and you have also stated that there is no human condition comparable to pregnancy. Pregnancy is a natural part of the human condition, and with it comes risk of death and other health problems. The impacts of pregnancy on the woman's health, both temporary and permanent, can have a substantial impact on her and her ability to live and to care for others. The impact of a temporary condition can have permanent consequences. My overall point still stands.
  17. I've enjoyed reading my friends talk about things they are grateful for. It is welcome optimism in a difficult time.
  18. I probably should have said that criminalizing induced abortions makes it more possible to criminalize spontaneous abortions. Once the ending of a pregnancy becomes the business of the state, woman who have miscarriages can become suspected for inducing abortions. Whereas if induced abortions are legal, miscarriages would not be considered a potentially illegal act.
  19. I do think my answer was adequate given the context. But, yes, I think that can be the case. I think there are women who do not feel like their bodies are capable of doing what it takes to donate blood on a constant basis. I lost thirty percent of my blood when my eldest was born, due to placental abruption. I had to have infusions of iron during the pregnancy with my twins. The toll all that blood donation takes on our bodies is real, and I can understand if some women feel like their bodies cannot afford it.
  20. You must be cautious and circumspect because criminalizing induced abortions makes it possible to criminalize spontaneous abortions. It usually is. The vast majority of abortions, nonsurgical abortions, consist of preventing the woman's body from maintaining a pregnancy. Any procedure that removes a nonviable unborn human being from a woman's womb is going to involve killing them directly or indirectly. Even inducing a full-term birth is considered abortion in some states, if the baby is expected to die after being born. I acknowledge that abortion kills another human being.
  21. I did not ask, I framed the issue: I do not think that the state should be allowed to do that, even if it already does it to some extent.
  22. That is because there is no other human experience that exactly corresponds to pregnancy. Hopefully that would give us all pause.
  23. I already said that I cannot speak for women who have had abortions, but I did say: Donating blood is one kind of medical procedure that cannot compare to what a woman's body provides for her unborn child. If there was some medical procedure that exactly corresponded to it, my answer would be yes. I certainly think that people take into consideration the biological toll events can have on their bodies.
  24. Sure, and spontaneous abortion is a natural human experience as well. And human beings have been choosing medical intervention in the natural processes of their bodies for as long as medicine has existed. If I women decides that she wants to intervene with her body's process of keeping a human being inside her, I believe it is her choice, not yours or mine.
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