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Everything posted by Meadowchik

  1. Not exactly, no. Who has authority over an individual life? Whose claims are entitled to one's time and energy? Joseph Smith is not entitled to my attention, nor is the church. And, From a scientific perspective, the claims are not relevant, as they're not making scientific claims. From an intellectual perspective, the lines are deeply blurred, because they rely heavily on emotions. From a moral and spiritual perspective, I can reasonably say this: the church's claims encroach upon moral and spiritual boundaries of peoples' lives. So I would say that the claimants have the moral responsibility to go back to the drawing board, dig much more deeply to build a morally-tenable proposition for other human beings. (FTR this goes to anyone who claims to speak for God to humankind.) A few weeks ago a person was asking me about my mother's cancer diagnosis. She then proceeded to give me instructions for my mother's treatment. She is not a doctor or medically qualified at all. It's not uncommon for people to say things like this to each other, but it does reveal something about them. It reveals a casual regard for the gravity of their proposal and its potential impact on the person they are telling. It also reveals a disproportionate confidence in the information they are sharing. It reveals disrespect for other people and a disrespect for the subject material. In short, my response here is a deeper explanation of why the premise of this thread is all backwards. It is like Fether is demanding my mom to tell him why she should not fast for three days and take the nutritional supplements he suggested. To that I do say "Shoo." There is an inherent lack of respect in making unprovable claims about how people should fundamentally live their lives.
  2. I've suggested a cohesive narrative already, for how the BOM is not as claime: all supernatural influence is the same as claimed, except that it is from Satan, not God. After all, look at the racism it relies on and perpetuates. Bad fruit. Not to mention other division and suffering, and deceiving Native Americans about their ancestry. Anyways... You're not asking due diligence questions, where the burden of proof falls upon the claimants. People can lie and hide forever how they made something or how something occurred. Don't be naive.
  3. Well as someone who grew up in the church I clearly saw it in men who had no relation to me asserting their supposed authority over my spirituality as a child. Perhaps it is easier to see from that perspective, but the church claiming spiritual authority over others is ubiquitous in its nature. Wiggling semantics do not change that.
  4. It wouldn't be the first time nor the last that men sincerely fancied themselves as more important than others and collectively worked to maintain such a fantasy through collaboration. Those who claim that the Book of Mormon is exceptional don't tend to do so because of its own merit, per se, but rather because of its unexceptional content combined with assumptions made about its production. It's very much like a magician's sleight of hand and not about true value of the work. We can see an extension of this in more modern times, when President Hinckley and others talk about the Book of Mormon being divine serving as a testament of the Restoration, doing this without an actual appeal to book's contents. The claim of the Book of Mormon's divinity is rarely accompanied by an assessment its net value, where the harm it has caused is acknowledged and weighed against any contributions it has made. Perhaps that is because the evaluation of the book tends to begin with existing presumptions about it. For instance, I've never heard anyone who claimed the Book of Mormon was produced supernaturally to tackle the problem of its production being potentially aided by the Devil.
  5. Sure, people make their own stories. But only very few claim and attempt the exercise of spiritual authority over others.
  6. Right. It is backwards. For instance, what is the comprehensive, cohesive narrative explaining how the Book of Mormon is what it and Joseph Smith claimed it to be?
  7. No, not everyone "survives" that. Ftr though, you're bringing up survival. I was speaking about spiritual health. External interference is inherent in the church's relationship with our worthiness and tea and coffee consumption. Worthiness contingent on tea and coffee consumption. On the one hand, one may question why the faithful would not give up something so trivial. On the other hand, one may question why a church would make worthiness contingent upon something so trivial.
  8. The little things *can* make a difference indeed. They can spark joy and be a part of positive moves which enhance life. Which is why external interference in them can be troublesome.
  9. For you, the "abstaining from coffee and certain teas hold meaning" related to your beliefs. Would you still abstain if the abstinence weren't a requirement of worthiness? For example, you might choose to abstain from dairy products for spiritual reasons also, but that abstinence has no impact on church worthiness. There's a difference between making such decisions based on personally-developed decisions versus church requirements.
  10. I'm sure that the common use of sugar and condensed milk in drinks including coffee and tea has nothing to do with that health challenge. I can't stand sweetened drinks, though.
  11. For many people in the world, tea and coffee *are* just liquids. People may or may not consume them, purely based on their own preferences and experience with them. A personal expression of devotion is one thing, an outward expression of worthiness is another. I don't think that the attachment of worthiness to something so relatively trivial (and sometimes possibly helpful) is good.
  12. It is good to return to first principles sometimes, even regularly, with the opportunity to re-evaluate. That might be one way to use "new bottles."
  13. It does help, even the ritual of sitting with a mug of hot liquid and sipping, alone or with someone else socialising, can be comforting and then energising in itself.
  14. Five children in six years and two more four years later...sleep deprivation is inevitable. You remind me that some people have no idea of what that is like.
  15. When our youngest were about five, I was finally getting consistent nights of sleep I needed. Our oldest was sixteen. I noticed a strange change, like I was waking up after a long, long sleep. I had energy again. I could think much more clearly after years of mental fuzz.
  16. I was more than happy to abstain from coffee and tea as part of my covenants. But after I left and then tried them, it was a bit bitter accepting the real suffering I experienced being chronically sleep deprived as a young mother, when they might have helped. Even one additional hour of alertness on those days--about 4000 of them--could have vastly improved my life. Those were hard times.
  17. This is a great general principle, and good reminder for my own life. Thanks for talking about it.
  18. Here is a news report which includes clips from his video interviews, screenshots from the videos he himself took inside the Capitol--including from inside a ransacked office--and transcripts from him narrating his movements and the scenes to his mother while it happened: https://youtu.be/rkTFkVSNkII
  19. He certainly seems like a sincere and benign fellow. I doubt he'll receive any jail time at all.
  20. He gave more than one interview on the day, and the FBI found recordings where he was narrating his entry into the Capitol for his mother, recordings which the articles also quote. So on the contrary, we have plenty of information about his thoughts before and during his trespass of the Capitol.
  21. And they committed these crimes while often using scripture to create the narrative like, "We're righteous, the other side is wicked," and apparently with little to no self-reflection that violating the Constitution "to save it" is very wrong indeed.
  22. I think the individual who dressed as Captain Moroni was pretty clear in seeing himself as like Moroni, participating in the righteous rescue of American government. His interpretation seemed overly binary and inconsiderate of the righteousness that also exists on the other side of his binary and the evil that is also present on his side of the binary.
  23. I don't agree, just be careful about misidentifying: I'd say that the humility that makes us reflect and be self-aware helps to create empathy which in turn helps to stave off meritless theories, especially when they demonize whole swaths of people. But that does seem to be what this man at the Capitol did, he assigned these evil labels to one political party and good labels to another and that led to no good.
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