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bluebell

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Everything posted by bluebell

  1. Do we have some way to measure if your statement that last week's conference was the most Christian conference yet is true? It didn't seem any more Christian than other GC's that occurred on Easter to me.
  2. The "these women agree with me so your concerns are invalid" approach to mourning with those that mourn.
  3. I'm not Rain but I'm going to respond by saying that I don't think the church should always act to assuage concerns (though sometimes they should). I just think the church should care about the concerns. And for the most part I really believe our leaders do. With some members, that's a different story. What about them? Will listening to and empathizing the concerns of women who feel differently harm them in some way? Yes I do. The men on the board who try to do that seem to fare better. Is there some reason we should believe that wouldn't be the case with everyone?
  4. Ok. I’ve elaborated on why I don’t agree.
  5. I also don't get someone who is very much represented saying, "I don't get the big deal about representation." To me that's like someone who's not colorblind telling someone who is "I don't get the big deal about not being able to see the color red".
  6. I do get what you are saying. I think there's a difference though between omitting a word we could have sworn we said, and being so used to saying a phrase a specific way that we don't immediately notice it's not applicable in the situation we just used it in. I don't know that that kind of slip would have any hidden meanings or messages either, but it's a different kind of slip than the kind you seem to be talking about (unless I'm misunderstanding you, which could be the case).
  7. I'm not sure how noting that someone thanked all the brethren for speaking and didn't thank the one sister for speaking is "looking for ways to be offended". Is having negative feelings about something the same thing as being offended now? Perhaps you aren't aware, but actions can produce negative emotions, even when no one is at fault. Sincere mistakes can cause hurt, even when it was intentional. Accidents can still harm, even if no one is being held personally responsible for that harm. It's really hard to "mourn with those that mourn" if you are busy telling someone t
  8. I didn't post the other parts because I didn't want to copy and paste too much and there was nothing in the other parts that contradicted or changed what I said. It is a method comprised of not allowing biases for ideologies interfere with seeking truth, not being dishonest in the sharing of the information or knowledge you find, and not plagiarizing. Which one of those are you claiming Pres. Nelson isn't doing?
  9. If any prophet ever taught that we should believe them just because they said something and they are the prophet, then I agree, that would not be very useful. I'm very thankful that one of the main teachings of the church is to find out for ourselves and to not rely on what other people have told us.
  10. It is "honesty in the acquisition, analysis, and transmission of ideas. A person is being intellectually honest when he or she, knowing the truth, states that truth." "Intellectual Honesty combines good faith with a primary motivation toward seeking true beliefs." Intellectual dishonesty--"Intentionally committed fallacies and deception in debates and reasoning are called intellectual dishonesty."
  11. Yes, I think we have both thought that it was important to clarify how the other isn't seeing the issue correctly. Hence, all the back and forth on it. One of our main disagreements is that you believe you can have a definition of dishonesty that doesn't include deception, when I don't believe that's possible. It's a bit of an impasse between us.
  12. I'm sure you are aware of the small controversy surrounding the Sunday morning session, when Pres. Oaks thanked all the brethren for their talks and forgot that Sister Aburto spoke as well. On one hand it was a small thing, and of course a simple mistake that most of the sisters in the church are not taking personally. I'm sure that Sis. Aburto didn't take it personally. On the other hand though, it stings a bit, that it is such the norm at general conference for there not to be any women speakers in a session, that it's easy to forget when one actually does talk. 50+% of the chu
  13. How does he believe he knows what is best for everyone? He believes that God has taught him that. Obviously, many people disagree with him being able to know such a thing, but that doesn't change that he does believe God is a capable of making such a thing known to His prophets.
  14. I think it's past time to just agree to disagree on this and move on. I think we are at the point where we are just repeated what we've already said multiple times. Thanks for a good discussion.
  15. He believes he does know it for everyone. It would be intellectually dishonest for him to say otherwise, given what he believes he knows to be true.
  16. I can respect that process. But none of that contradicted what I said. You intentionally chose to allow your bias to stop you from doing what you believed/had been taught in a secular field you needed to do to find truth. Considering your intent and your training and your feelings that you've shared about everything, it makes sense that you now believe you were being dishonest in that approach. You are in the best position to judge yourself on that. My only point is that you can't be accidentally intellectually dishonest. It's the intent behind the actions that determine the lab
  17. The bold is true. Both for members and for those who leave. But sometimes it’s all we have to work with: how we feel and the long term fruit in our lives. It would be easier in some ways if all of this was provably right it or provably wrong. But it’s neither.
  18. I think the difference is that Dew wasn’t a religious leader when she was in charge of the publishing company.
  19. Only if you purposeful allow yourself to be deceived. It has to be on purpose. Someone who is sincerely wrong, is not intellectually dishonest. Dishonesty requires intent.
  20. Intellectual honesty is not making an effort to avoid personal bias, but avoiding a personal bias causing someone to omit outcomes that don't support the bias. Intellectual honesty is making sure "one's personal beliefs do not interfere with the pursuit of truth;" and that "relevant facts and information are not purposefully omitted even when such things may contradict one's hypothesis; Facts are presented in an unbiased manner, and not twisted to give misleading impressions." Having a personal bias towards an outcome does not make someone intellectually dishonest. Someone has
  21. I agree that sometimes the church touts things as being incredibly significant while not treating them as that significant, but I don't think we can lay the charge of calling anything a "bold step" at their feet. It was probably a journalist who chose the phrase. *Edit to add: Smac beat me to that point.
  22. The articles basically says that BYUtv was strongly encouraged to make the change following concerns over "unwritten" rules for the show that seemed exclusionary. If it's true (and I have no reason to believe it's not), it doesn't really surprise me that BYUtv didn't make the decision all on it's own. The church doesn't seem to be involved, other than through their connection with the school obviously.
  23. I saw this last week. I think it's a great idea and a way to put our money where our mouth is. We teach that there is no sin in being homosexual. If we really believe that, then there should be nothing wrong with having characters on a BYUtv show that are homosexual. As long as the character is written in a way that stays within the teachings of the church, I'm all for it. I'm sure that for those that will never be happy with the church or BYU until they embrace SSM and a homosexual lifestyle, this will be met with an "it's not good enough, it's still wrong" mentality. I've already
  24. I'm not really suggesting anything other than that we don't really have enough information to even pretend we can guess at the answer.
  25. I apologize for my part in that. I think some of it may be from your misunderstanding of what constitutes "intellectual honesty".
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