Church Handbook, Tithing, Temple attendance?

[nuclearfuels]

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding.

1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.

 

[webbles]

59 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

I don't consider it "bad / apostate / presumptuous" for submitting a suggestion.  I know quite a few people who've submitted suggestions at the local level (I don't know of any that submitted it above the stake level).  They are all very active members.

[Rain]

57 minutes ago, webbles said:

I don't consider it "bad / apostate / presumptuous" for submitting a suggestion.  I know quite a few people who've submitted suggestions at the local level (I don't know of any that submitted it above the stake level).  They are all very active members.

My daughter, who is a fully active and believing member, submitted suggestion to my stake president (not hers, my husband suggested the our stake president might be the right president to go through because of his experiences) and he helped her suggest these to 2 of the local temples and her stake president.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding.

1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.

 

1. Bishoprics, Stake Presidencies, and their clerks. And some people higher up. Unless you pay through Salt Lake out of a trust or investments or whatever. Then only the higher ups know.

2. No idea, I know local leaders do not have access to this. Not sure if it is tracked.

3. This would be a legal and logistical nightmare and in essence you are just using the local members as unpaid labor to create/get and then move the food around. You wouldn’t get a ton of volunteers for this longterm. Who wants to give up their Sunday to be volunteer Doordashers for tourists? Also taking fast offering food to feed tourists who are presumably wealthy enough to feed themselves is very odd.

4. There is no avenue for unsolicited suggestions because using volunteer or paid church labor to evaluate them wouldn’t be worth it. Most of the suggestions would be worthless or petty or ignore potential problems the suggestion would cause. If people are calling you apostate for doing this I suspect there is a lot more going on.

5. The missionary is a legal adult at that point and even well intentioned parental comments are probably superfluous. What would a parent’s views offer that a missionary application does not?

[Rain]

6 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding.

1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 

This is basically switching normal workers working on Sunday for members working on Sunday.

6 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

I  answered this above

6 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.

 

When my son went on his mission his new, soon to be, MP asked us as his parents some things along these lines. 

[nuclearfuels]

On 8/18/2024 at 3:43 PM, The Nehor said:

even well intentioned parental comments are probably superfluous.

Yes - why would parents know anything about their children?

[Raingirl]

On 8/18/2024 at 6:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding.

1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.

 

For number three, talk to an Orthodox Jew. They are experts at observing the Sabbath when traveling. 

[Teancum]

On 8/18/2024 at 9:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding.

1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion? My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.

 

Submit a suggestion to whom?

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Yes - why would parents know anything about their children?

This is a dumb dodge.

It also works to suggest that an employer should talk to a new employee’s parents in order to evaluate their fitness for a job.

Cut the cord.

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion?

?

Are you like inviting us to a conversation that started earlier somewhere else?  Who is doing this considering?

[Danzo]

When my wife was 19, she wrote a letter to the first presidency asking if they could change the age for sisters to go on missions to 19 instead of 21.  The first presidency sent a nice letter telling her that the policy wasn't changing at that time.  No one got her in trouble.  In fact,  it appears after considering her request for a few more years, they decided she was right.

[nuclearfuels]

On 8/20/2024 at 1:12 PM, The Nehor said:

This is a dumb dodge.

It also works to suggest that an employer should talk to a new employee’s parents in order to evaluate their fitness for a job.

Cut the cord.

Speaking of dodges, it's always fascinating when people who don't yet have children have such strong opinions on what people with children should do. 

 

[The Nehor]

On 8/26/2024 at 9:03 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Speaking of dodges, it's always fascinating when people who don't yet have children have such strong opinions on what people with children should do. 

The idea of “Not helicopter parenting your adult children” is something I would give up if I had children? This is the wisdom you gain from becoming a parent? Maybe I should take a vow of celibacy or something.

[Dario_M]

Well..i can at least say that i don't pay tithing. I've no job so..

For the rest...i find your idea kinda....uhm.... complicated (no offense offcourse😌). The sunday is a holy day will always be a holy day no matter what. If people wanna buy food on sunday. Or they wanna eat out because they are on a vacation that's on them ....in my opinion at least. 

Edited August 28, 2024 by Dario_M

[Mfbnew]

On 8/27/2024 at 10:05 PM, Dario_M said:

Well..i can at least say that i don't pay tithing. I've no job so..

For the rest...i find your idea kinda....uhm.... complicated (no offense offcourse😌). The sunday is a holy day will always be a holy day no matter what. If people wanna buy food on sunday. Or they wanna eat out because they are on a vacation that's on them ....in my opinion at least. 

Talk to the Bishop about getting to   go to the temple.  There may be some little volunteer "jobs" you can perform- or people to help.  The food you eat comes from somewhere- maybe you can do small jobs for others to count as "tithing".  If you have a medical disability that is a different case, but ask your bishop anyway if there is a way to qualify for the temple.  You need not go into the details here.

Tithing is about what physical things you can do to thank God for your "increase"- anything you get that you didn't have yesterday!

Edited September 3, 2024 by Mfbnew

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, Mfbnew said:

Talk to the Bishop about getting to   go to the temple.  There may be some little volunteer "jobs" you can perform- or people to help.  The food you eat comes from somewhere- maybe you can do small jobs for others to count as "tithing".  If you have a medical disability that is a different case, but ask your bishop anyway if there is a way to qualify for the temple.  You need not go into the details here.

Yeah i will speak to my bishop about that. I have him on whatsapp so i always can reach out to him. 

2 hours ago, Mfbnew said:

Tithing is about what physical things you can do to thank God for your "increase"- anything you get that you didn't have yesterday!

I don't need to pay tithing because i have no job on the moment. Paying tithing to the church only counts for people who have an job and income. 

Edited September 3, 2024 by Dario_M

[GoCeltics]

On 8/18/2024 at 9:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members?

Why should temple attendance be recorded?

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, GoCeltics said:

Why should temple attendance be recorded?

Because we are accomplishment driven and we love to keep score and records. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, GoCeltics said:

Why should temple attendance be recorded?

From what I've heard, bishops are not allowed to keep track of temple attendance but the stake does, in a few ways. The stake knows the percentage of members who are attending the temple but it doesn't sound like they keep track of individual members.  I think the stake can also see if a member has taken a family name to the temple at least once in a specific year. 

We do love to keep records, but I don't think it's to keep score.  It seems to mostly be about finding ways to gauge how people are doing spiritually so that the stake can respond if it looks like their members are struggling. 

[smac97]

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks in advance for your responses, as I'm seeking understanding.

1. Who has viewing access to the amount of tithing members pay? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

I would assume so.  Also counselors and ward/stake financial clerks.

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

Dunno.  A lot has changed since I hung up my spurs (2018).

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

3. I have a suggestion for a potential policy for the Church handbook (basically local members would provide food (from the store / bishop's storehouse where possible / or homemade food so tourists could keep the Sabbath Day holy instead of eating out; it would include a signed disclosure (similar to the waivers used for youth outings, camp outs, etc.) from both the tourists and local members releasing the church from liability for any adverse health outcomes from eating the food or interacting (all interactions would be at the local chapels only - though not taking a taxi / uber / lyft to church seems to be related and helpful in Sabbath observance - the driver (local members) would be compensated at the rate Seminary teachers are compensated for driving to the chapel for each lesson ($0.07/mile I believe)). I don't find it difficult and actually enjoy the "challenge" of eating in the hotel room or buying food before hand, to eat on Sunday and some good friends of ours who are active eat out on Sundays while on vacation without reservation. Who may I share this suggested rough draft policy (after I write it up with handbook references and scripture references)? 

Send it to your bishop.

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

4. Why is it considered bad / apostate / presumptuous for me to submit such a suggestion?

It's not.  Submit it to your bishop and that's that.

Latter-day Saints err and go sideways when they take an adversarial, defiant, coercive, publicized, sensationalistic approach.  Think Kate Kelly, Sam Young, etc. 

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

My testimony isn't struggling. I would understand if there was a proecss for submitting such suggestions through local priesthood leadership, and as directed by the Spirit they woudl edit, update, reject, or submit up the chian of comamnd suhc a suggested policy update. Other rounds of review would lead to a much better final product if it wasn't simply not employed. I get that. What I dont get is why we're not supposed to submit suggestions, or doing so is seen as bad / unruly / etc.

I don't think submitting a proposal per se is "bad / unruly / etc."  If you have an idea, send it to the bishop (or, with his permission, to the stake president) and ask that it be given some consideration.

On 8/18/2024 at 7:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

5. Similar question for missionary applications - where do parents submit their suggestions, views, etc. with the acknowledgement that parents are not First Presidency members. Surely the parents' experience and opinion is "good info" which can / may/ does / might, etc. lead to good inspiration.

Same answer, I suppose.  The bishop.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Nofear]

On 8/18/2024 at 8:42 AM, nuclearfuels said:

2. Who has viewing access to Temple attendance of members? Bishops, branch presidencies, stake presidencies? 

There is a report for how many family history activities done by the membership of a unit (Family History Activity Report) but it's aggregate and not individualized. Also, no tracking on temple attendance (though it could be done now that temple recommends have digital codes).

Edited September 8, 2024 by Nofear

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, Nofear said:

There is a report for how many family history activities done by the membership of a unit (Family History Activity Report) but it's aggregate and not individualized. Also, no tracking on temple attendance (though it could be done now that temple recommends have digital codes).

This is true, although I wouldn't be surprised if one's temple attendance is available as a report at higher levels. 

Long long time ago for a few years ordinance slips had a bar-code, as did one's temple recommend, and one took the TR with one through an endowment session, and after passing through the veil before entering the celestial room, both were scanned at a data collection station -- so it was possible to identify which patron had served as proxy for a given deceased person. It may have been the case that it was a pilot program for a few different temples. I don't recall hearing anything being said about that at the time. But it was discontinued, so I think it must have been a pilot program that didn't get taken on for general use.

My temple district (London Temple) is currently piloting a program where one can transfer one's paper TR to a digital TR tied to one's smartphone. It's voluntary, and if one wants to, one can switch back and forth between paper and device. 

[nuclearfuels]

On 9/3/2024 at 12:54 PM, smac97 said:

-Smac

Thanks Smac. I think you nailed it