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Everything posted by Nofear

  1. Or, John 15:18-19 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." But, I don't think we'll hear either scripture? No. The Apostles experience it and are fully aware of it the Savior's warning but I don't think they think anything is to be gained by pointing out that the persecution of Elder Holland is a continuing fulfillment of prophecy.
  2. CV75 responded with the data suggesting greater weight on the pillars of care and fairness by liberals. Weighting those values of greater import doesn't mean the other values don't matter to them. No one is claiming that. It may inform how one responds if their is a perceived tension between the ideals. One will tend to bias the values one holds with more gravitas. Nothing groundbreaking with that comment.
  3. Honestly, I'm not sure what you are talking about. I don't know what you think I'm presuming. You can try to show me that I'm really saying this or that but I'm really mostly just confuzzled by your comments. Maybe your conflating my comments with another or something. Don't know, nor do I think it matters much. I'm not really trying to persuade anything. I was mostly just showing appreciation for CV75's approach.
  4. Like you chose not to affiliate as either Republican or Democrat. I'm not sure what you think I'm opposing though. I personally tend to put weight into other values as do conservatives, but it doesn't mean that I'm opposed to those that weigh their values differently.
  5. Nice analysis. It does seem to try to hit people's buttons. Some will care about one more than others. Liberals tend to prioritize care/harm above all else and conservatives are more equitably spread among the five pillars. But an appeal to the other pillars one doesn't value as much doesn't usually make invalid the argument so long as it makes sense to those moral pillars one does prioritize. And really, the release is more directed at the more conservative than the more liberal since the care/harm will trump all else and they usually don't need vaccine prodding.
  6. I very much appreciate Moral Foundations theory (and have brough Haidt's book up before on this board). Alas, so many of the comments to your OP seem to entirely miss the point, CV75. While Daryl Davis (https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/18/daryl-davis-black-musician-who-converts-ku-klux-klan-members) may not have exactly employed Moral Foundation theory explicitly in his thinking, there is some explanatory power in the theory for why his actions succeeded. Or Cassie Jaye's awakening (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY). Or this woman's journey from the Westboro Baptist church: https://www.ted.com/talks/megan_phelps_roper_i_grew_up_in_the_westboro_baptist_church_here_s_why_i_left?language=en)
  7. Not my experience. Heck, the Preach my Gospel manual specifically warns against it. The table shortly above that quote (https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-recognize-and-understand-the-spirit?lang=eng) also doesn't emphasize feelings. Whatever narrative you feel is justified as being correct because of your past experiences should be replaced with a more accurate one. No need to set up a straw man to beat the Church about with.
  8. There is wiggle room, yes. Another Joseph Smith quote: How are physical body responds to the stimuli the spirit body receives can be varied. While the Spirit should pretty much always enlighten the mind; emotion, physical fatigue, energy, etc. are other responses. We don't know exactly the mind/body/spirit physiological pathways all that well.
  9. I actually remember talking with my mtc branch president that I was worried I wasn't experiencing such emotions like so many of the missionaries around me. He assured me that his own spiritual experiences were frequently not heavily tied to emotion. Joseph Smith has his spin on it Whether or not his opinion about Israelite blood has any merit or not, the point is that to him it was clear that emotions were not always tied to the Spirit. Emotions are a secondary effect for some, some of the time. Some members have confused the two, however. But just because I get emotional listening to a good country song (a rarity) or cute video of animal or kitten kindness, I don't relate such emotions as being spiritual.
  10. Alma 40:23 "The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame." What proper and perfect frame means is pretty ambiguous. Are vestigial organs (like one's coccyx, but many more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality) proper and perfect (e.g. Can Pres. Monson still twitch his ears)? And let's not be some earth centric in our thinking. Our earth is one of countless inhabited worlds. Probably some are around stars of slightly different temperatures and hence different solar radiation and hence the planet's atmosphere could be different to protect. Melanin gives our skin our color but that coloration is pretty arbitrary. I could easily see a world where skin color variation is quite different, like blue or green. Or maybe not uniform like we see now. Put the pigmentation gene on the X chromosome and thinks look a lot different (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD6h-wDj7bw). Our fifth little toe is pretty pointless. Is that a must for everybody on all worlds? Long story short... I don't know, but I'm going to keep a pretty open mind about it.
  11. Just as a technical note, it's not the Celestial Kingdom that is prohibited, it's the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom where we would eventually be allowed the opportunity to be as our Father and Mother in Heaven and do the works they do. I am not privy to all that entails, but it apparently entails a companionship of a male and female. Though, that clarification just kicks the can down the road as it were and doesn't really answer your question.
  12. https://publicsquaremag.org/dialogue/beating-ploughshares-into-swords/
  13. One of the things that this incident illustrates very clearly is how being an upper middle-class, hightly educated, cisgender, married, white, male allows me to the right and privilege to not be offended when others say things I don't like.
  14. I personally hold that to be true which 1) has my own personal witness and 2) is consistent with the teachings of the prophets. And if the two don't agree (which happens), I hold my position in abeyance until further light and knowledge is gained.
  15. I am reasonably confident Elder Holland regrets that his speech was so easily construed to misrepresent his intentions. While I don't know him personally, the article below conveys what I believe to be true. https://publicsquaremag.org/dialogue/racial-healing/the-elder-holland-i-know/
  16. "Judgment must begin at the house of God first, and we are perfectly willing it should." -- Brigham Young I fully expect the Church is going to (continue to) face some challenging trials.
  17. I meant Elder Ballard (from what I recall of his book https://www.amazon.com/Three-Degrees-Glory-Melvin-Ballard-ebook/dp/B001UV3FIC).
  18. That was basically Elder Talmage's position. Celestial = greater "acceleration" and so while terrestrial beings could one day be where celestial beings are today, the gap between the two populations would be ever growing still.
  19. People, including physicists, like to think of wormholes as a solution. I don't see it. I made a toy calculation to exemplify the situation. Two frames are shown. One from the perspective of two space stations (alpha and beta) and a third from the perspective of a ship (not shown) moving to the left at 0.5c. From the the stations' perspectives, the countermeasure arrives before station beta is destroyed. From the ship moving to the left (not shown), they would never see the countermeasure being launched (since event E is in the spacelike region) but if they did the calculations, light from the explosion of station beta would reach station alpha even before ship gamma could have seen station alpha launch their attack. In general, for timelike or null events, the sequence of events is preserved no matter what frame of reference is used. But once one allows communication from spacelike regions to timelike regions the sequence of events can change (hence paradoxes). Wormholes don't change that (one can think of them as being like a missile with infinite speed). Heck, even the Alcubierre drive doesn't change that (maybe things will work out for its little bubble of modified spacetime but paradox can occur for observers external to the bubble). Is there a way around this? Maybe. If one hypothesizes a different class of matter that obeys Lorentz transformations with a different c (say c2), then one can shrink the spacelike regions and retain causality. The rub is that nothing that transforms with c2 while moving at speeds greater than c couldn't interact with anything that obeys transformations with c -- lest one create paradox.
  20. Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of it. I'm not entirely convinced by the argument but I haven't taken the time to go through it more rigorously. That said, I believe non-local interactions are the way to go (and that our theology essentially demands it). Problem is, once one introduces faster-than-light interactions* it is possible to create temporal paradoxes and that's a bad way to implement reality. * Quantum mechanics gets around it with it's no-go theorem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem) but that makes any kind of FTL that would be required by a theology as impossible.
  21. I'm an advocate of the concept of inter-kingdom progression. But, it's by no means an idea held by everybody, perhaps not even by most. Elder Ballard wrote a little tract where he outlines his thinking about it (and gives rational that avoids criticism above). https://www.amazon.com/Three-Degrees-Glory-Melvin-Ballard-ebook/dp/B001UV3FIC
  22. Kingdom hopping is an irreverent expression for the idea that there is the possibility one can advance, eventually, from one kingdom to another. For example, suppose an individual initially assigned the telestial kingdom progresses and advances her character such that she is more comfortable living a terrestrial law -- could she move to that sociality?
  23. While it's a bit off topic, quantum indeterminacy* does not return the concept of free agency. As far as agency is concerned it is just as incompatible as determinism is. * Never mind that quantum mechanics doesn't actually have to be indeterministic. Bell proved we have to give up either counter-factual definiteness (indeterminism) or locality. Our other branches of physics are very much local and hence many are willing to give up CFD. Locality and the theology of a divine being that actively governs a domain of countless light-years ... has issues.
  24. If the earth is obedient to a celestial law (and I believe the scriptures on that), I wonder what a planet (or star, etc.) that does *not* obey celestial law looks like? I personally don't subscribe to the literal anthropomorphism of the earth and as such one can ask is it even possible for non-free agency objects to not obey a celestial law. If so, it makes trite the decleration. If not, the question of celestial law non-compliant astronomical objects a curious (even if ultimately unimportant right now) question.
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