GoCeltics

Humans are so smart. They would never build something like Skynet 🤫

Something that stood out to me in the church's Old Testament Study Guide was a clarification about Pharaoh’s heart in Exodus. Exodus 7:3, footnote a, includes an important clarification from the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. It explains that the Lord did not harden Pharaoh’s heart but that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. As the Prophet Joseph Smith was working on his inspired translation of the King James Version of the Bible, he corrected each indication that the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart because in each case, Pharaoh had hardened his own heart (see Joseph Smith Translation, Exodus 7:13 [in Exodus 7:13, footnote a]; 9:12 [in Exodus 9:12, footnote a]; 10:1 [in Exodus 10:1, footnote a], 20 [in Exodus 10:20, footnote a], 27 [in Exodus 10:27, footnote a]; 11:10 [in Exodus 11:10,footnote a]). This lines up with a shorter note in this week’s Come Follow Me lesson - “Note the clarification in the Joseph Smith Translation of Exodus 7:3, 13; 9:12.” I’d argue it’s less about clarification and more about replacing what the Bible teaches. Across the broader biblical text, the King James Version’s wording about who hardens Pharaoh’s heart is actually consistent with other major sources, including the English Standard Version (ESV), the New American Bible, Revised Edition (NABRE), and the Hebrew Masoretic Text. In passages where Pharaoh is the one hardening his own heart, all of these sources say so. And in passages where God is described as hardening Pharaoh’s heart, they consistently attribute it to God as well. Below, I’ll look at how the JST approaches the biblical passages. Where the JST reassigns the hardening from God to Pharaoh (the first being the king of Heshbon) Deuteronomy 2:30; Exodus 4:21; Exodus 7:3, 9:12, 10:1,20,27, 11:10, 14:4,8,17 In Joshua 11:20, the JST alters the meaning of the verse and re-orders the words. KJV: “For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses.” JST: “For it was of the LORD to destroy them utterly, because they hardened their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that they might have no favour, that they might destroy them in battle as the Lord commanded Moses.” Where Pharaoh is already said to harden his own heart The KJV attributes the hardening to Pharaoh in several places; the JST leaves them unchanged: Exodus 8:15,32, 9:34–35 The notion that God hardens people’s hearts shows up in several other parts of the Bible. The JST leaves them unchanged. Isaiah 63:17 KJV: “O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake.” JST: “O LORD, why hast thou suffered us to err from thy ways, and to harden our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants’ sake.” John 12:40 KJV: “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart.” JST: “He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart.” Romans 9:18 KJV: “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” JST: “Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

I’m modifying the last part of my previous reply because I wanted to address the aspect of fully completing the job. The tools — God’s grace — are already sufficient before they are ever placed in your hands. Their sufficiency isn’t created by your use of them. If someone fails to use those tools and fully complete the job, that failure does not make the tools themselves insufficient. The adequacy was always there. The issue is not a lack in the grace, but a refusal to rely on it. The sufficiency remains constant, regardless of the response. If you’ re saying that God did not provide you with the tools needed to fully complete the job, then that would imply His grace was insufficient for you. In that case, it would seem improper for Him to have given you the task without properly equipping you for it. I read the article “His Grace Is Sufficient” in the Ensign, and nothing in it indicates that God’s grace becomes sufficient only after certain criteria are met. Can you provide an example where God gave you the grace to complete a task, yet the failure to complete it was due solely to the insufficiency of His grace and not anything on the your part?

Our shortcomings or failing of the grace of God doesn’t make His grace insufficient. If you’re thirsty and someone hands you a glass of water, that water is already sufficient to quench your thirst. It doesn’t become sufficient only after you drink it. Its sufficiency isn’t dependent on whether you accept it or when you choose to drink it. I’m not talking about the availability of the water or the moment it’s applied. I’m focusing on when it is sufficient — and it is sufficient in itself, regardless of what you do with it. God’s grace is sufficient even for the atheist before he is saved. Its sufficiency does not begin at the moment of faith — it already exists in full. However, it is not fully realized in that person until faith responds to it. Is God’s grace sufficient to save him? Yes. Is it sufficient if he begins the journey but later falls away? Yes. The sufficiency of grace was never the issue. The question is not whether grace was enough, but whether it was received and relied upon. If someone ultimately fails, it is not because God’s grace was insufficient, but because he refused to make use of what was fully sufficient all along. God’s grace was already sufficient before it was ever applied to Paul’s situation — commonly understood to relate to his eyes. The sufficiency wasn’t created in the moment it was given. It already existed. When God said, “My grace is sufficient for you” (2 Corinthians 12:9), He wasn’t making it sufficient at that point. He was declaring a sufficiency that was already fully present. Application does not create sufficiency — it reveals it. Moroni 10:32 refers to the IF / THEN condition. “Be perfected” equates to “become perfect.” “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him”, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.” His grace does not become sufficient in order to make you perfect in Christ. It is already sufficient. Its sufficiency is what enables that perfection, but it does not depend on you. The power and completeness are in the grace itself — not in your performance, not in your effort. It’s not about you achieving something that makes grace effective. It’s all about Christ and what He has already accomplished. Exactly. The tools — God’s grace — are already sufficient before they are ever placed in your hands. Their sufficiency isn’t created by your use of them. If someone fails to use those tools, that failure does not make the tools themselves insufficient. The adequacy was always there. The issue is not a lack in the grace, but a refusal to rely on it. The sufficiency remains constant, regardless of the response.

Hebrews 12:14-15 does not teach Christ’s grace is insufficient if a person fails of the grace of God. There are several aspects to grace. First: Is God’s grace sufficient? Yes. Is it sufficient before following all the conditions laid out in Moroni 10:32? Yes. Second: When does God’s grace become sufficient? According to the Bible, God’s grace is described as sufficient in the midst of human weakness, not after a person reaches a certain level of worthiness or perfection. The clearest statement comes from 2 Corinthians 12:9, where the Apostle Paul recounts the Lord telling him: “My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.” In that context, Paul had asked for a hardship to be removed, but instead God declared that His grace was already enough. The sufficiency of grace was not dependent on Paul overcoming the weakness first. Rather, grace operates precisely in weakness. Other related passages reinforce this idea: Romans 5:20 — “Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.” Hebrews 4:16 — “Believers are invited to come boldly to receive mercy and find grace “in time of need.” From these passages, the biblical pattern suggests: Grace is sufficient when we are weak. Grace is available in time of need. Grace is not portrayed as becoming sufficient only after human perfection. Third: Is it possible to fail to take advantage of something that is already sufficient? Yes. Fourth: Does that somehow cancel out or invalidate the sufficiency of that grace? No. Several church articles define grace (see examples one and two). There’s nothing in those passages suggesting that God’s grace is somehow insufficient and only becomes sufficient after someone fulfills every condition laid out in Moroni 10:32. If God gives you a hammer for a job, that hammer is sufficient for the task. If He gives you a wrench, the wrench is sufficient for its purpose. Can you fail to benefit from what you’ve been given? Of course — simply by refusing to use it. But your refusal doesn’t make the tool inadequate. It just means you chose not to use something that was already sufficient.

It’s not the host’s fault if someone decides not to show up. The feast is already sufficient on its own. Its sufficiency doesn’t depend on whether an invited guest performs every condition laid out in in Moroni 10:32.

Not necessarily. It simply indicates that His grace was sufficient at all times but people did not persevere until the end. If God’s grace is only sufficient for those who are exalted, then it was not sufficient for all the others who did not achieve that level. Addressed above. It’s apparent you think His grace is insufficient prior to the commencement of the process. It’s similar to a homeowner who has contracted painters to paint his house. He didn’t purchase enough paint to finish the entire job, so he didn't provide each painter with an adequate amount until they were nearly out. He then returns to the store and buys more paint. Then he refills their containers so they could keep working on the project.

Yes. We can fail of His grace. But the sufficiency of God's grace does not depend on what we do. His grace is already sufficient before sanctification and perfecting holiness. There's a matter of when grace is available, applied, and when it is sufficient. His grace is always available, always sufficient, before anything we must do. How and when it is applied is a process. Yes. But the sufficiency of Christ's grace is not diminished or enhanced by our level of faith.

Yes. But before that, you must determine if Christ’s grace is sufficient before anything you do. As I mentioned to teddyaware, grace is relational. As believers grow in knowing Christ, they experience grace more deeply. The command to grow in grace is really a call to grow in intimacy with Christ, trust in His sufficiency, and conformity to His character. Christ’s grace is always sufficient — but not always used. Yes, His grace is truly sufficient. We don’t have to follow all the conditions laid out in Moroni 10:32. Regarding salvation by faith, it is taught to us as the way we are saved. “For by grace you have been saved through faith ... not a result of works” and “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” to name a few. Ultimately, His plans serve a higher purpose beyond our understanding. But we don’t have to fulfill a long list of requirements before Christ’s grace becomes sufficient for us. However, Moroni 10:32 lists multiple conditions that must be fulfilled before Christ’s grace is considered sufficient for us. It’s a process. The good news is that Christ’s grace is already sufficient for us, even before we attain perfection or holiness. We don’t need to meet every condition listed in Moroni 10:32 for Christ’s grace to be sufficient.

Ephesians 2:8–9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith… not a result of works.” This teaches: Salvation is a gift. It cannot be earned. It is received through faith. Also, grace is relational. As believers grow in knowing Christ, they experience grace more deeply. The command to grow in grace is really a call to grow in: intimacy with Christ, trust in His sufficiency, and conformity to His character. Christ’s grace is always sufficient — but not always used. One clear statement is in 2 Corinthians 12:9, where the Lord says to Paul: “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness.” Christ’s grace is sufficient. Nothing needs to be added. No extra merit, no spiritual performance, no human effort. Grace is not partial. It fully accomplishes reconciliation with God. When is Christ’s grace sufficient? Biblically speaking, Christ’s grace is sufficient in conversion, in temptation, in suffering, in weakness, in failure, in growth, and in death. It is sufficient at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end. The real question Scripture presses is not “When is His grace sufficient?” but “When will I rely on it?” We don't have to follow all the conditions in Moroni 10:32 before His grace becomes sufficient. We’re not addressing the fullness of God’s grace. The focus is on whether Christ’s grace is sufficient from the outset, or if it depends on meeting the conditions described in Moroni 10:32.

I understand your point, and it makes sense. However, it still doesn’t address my question. Is Christ’s grace sufficient on its own before someone begins pursuing perfection and holiness? Or does it only become sufficient after a person first meets all the conditions you’ve described (similar to the framework in Moroni 10:32)? In my view, God’s grace is already sufficient prior to justification and sanctification. There is never a point at which God’s grace is insufficient. It does not suddenly become sufficient only after someone satisfies all the conditions outlined in Moroni 10:32. What is your view? Has there ever been a time in your life when God’s grace was insufficient?

Is Christ’s grace sufficient for you as you are, before sanctification, or does it only become sufficient after you meet all the conditions outlined in Moroni 10:32? No. One must endure to the end.

This applies to those who come forth in the first resurrection.

The New Testament frequently speaks of grace in an “already but not yet” sense. We genuinely receive grace now in justification and new life, yet its fullness is future—resurrection, inheritance, and final salvation. Hope, then, is trusting that God will finish what His grace has started, and the warnings are there because perseverance in faith matters. The conditions described in Moroni 10:32 don’t make Christ’s grace sufficient; rather, His grace is already sufficient, independent of our meeting those conditions.

Thank you. Found it further elaborated in the New Testament Student Study Guide. The promises found in Romans 8 are impressive and inspiring. Before reading these words of Paul, consider the following statement from the Prophet Joseph Smith: “[You] shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 347). I couldn’t find the concept of “joint heirs” mentioned elsewhere in LDS canon.

“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:13). “Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled.” (Hebrews 12:15). That grace is not a partial grace. It is a sufficient grace. Then we turn to Paul. Christ’s grace is sufficient for him before his sanctification or perfection. “And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” A similar teaching is found in a 2022 General Conference talk (“Then Will I Make Weak Things Become Strong”). This is not about being perfected (exalted). “I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. He then says that His grace is sufficient and that if we will humble ourselves and have faith in Him, then He will “make weak things [plural] become strong unto [us].” In other words, as we first change our fallen natures, our weakness, then we will be able to change our behaviors, our weaknesses. Humility, coupled with faith in Jesus Christ, will allow us to access the enabling power of His grace and the fulness of blessings available because of His Atonement. Third, through His grace He can make weak things become strong. If we humble ourselves and have faith in Jesus Christ, then His grace will enable us to change. In other words, He will empower us to change. This is possible because, as He says, “my grace is sufficient for all men.” His strengthening, enabling grace gives us power to overcome all obstacles, all challenges, and all weaknesses as we seek to change. I witness and testify that Jesus Christ is in reality our Savior and Redeemer. His grace is indeed sufficient.” Here’s another from 2004 General Conference (“In the Strength of the Lord”). “… It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts” (p. 697). Plus another from 2012 Ensign (“The Atonement and the Journey of Mortality”). “It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts. In all these cases, Christ’s grace is sufficient before humans attempt to expend their best efforts. It is not a partial grace that develops into a fulness or sufficient grace. Grace is the divine assistance or heavenly help each of us desperately needs to qualify for the celestial kingdom. Thus, the enabling power of the Atonement strengthens us to do and be good and to serve beyond our own individual desire and natural capacity.” In all these cases, His grace is sufficient. He does not add “his grace” (insufficient now) to “our grace” so the “combined grace” becomes sufficient.

It sounds like you are making a differentiation between a current, enabling grace for you (insufficient now because you are still progressing) and a future, enabled grace (sufficient only after you are exalted/perfected). Is that what is meant by Doctrine and Covenants 93:12-13, which speaks about how Christ did not receive a fullness at first but continued from grace to grace until He received a fullness – that the progression and growth of the Savior to godhood serves as a model for your own spiritual journey?

When is grace sufficient according to Moroni 10:32?

From your previous reply here. You are correct. Not all references to salvation mean exaltation. Then Elder Dallin H. Oaks, in Have You Been Saved?, explained exaltation is the fulness of salvation. “Finally, in another usage familiar and unique to Latter-day Saints, the words saved and salvation are also used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the "fulness of salvation" (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred covenants, including eternal marriage, in the temples of God, and faithfulness to those covenants by enduring to the end. If we use the word salvation to mean “exaltation,” it is premature for any of us to say that we have been “saved” in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead.”

According to teachings in “Perfection Pending” (October 1995 General Conference), perfection encompasses both resurrection and exaltation. Jesus and Heavenly Father achieved perfection following their resurrection, but ultimately perfection is understood as exaltation. That Jesus attained eternal perfection following His resurrection is confirmed in the Book of Mormon. It records the visit of the resurrected Lord to the people of ancient America. There He repeated the important injunction previously cited but with one very significant addition. He said, “I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.” This time He listed Himself along with His Father as a perfected personage. Previously He had not. Eternal perfection is reserved for those who overcome all things and inherit the fulness of the Father in His heavenly mansions. Perfection consists in gaining eternal life—the kind of life that God lives. Another is found in “Scripture Helps: New Testament.” “The perfection that the Savior envisions for us is much more than errorless performance. It is the eternal expectation … that we might be made perfect and be able to dwell with [God and Jesus Christ] in the eternities ahead. Joseph Smith learned that those who inherit the celestial kingdom are those who are “just [individuals] made perfect through Jesus.” The closest references I could find in LDS scripture are Doctrine and Covenants 76:50 69 and 128:15, 18. Why wouldn’t Christ’s grace be sufficient for someone before they are perfected?

Is God’s grace sufficient for a thief before salvation or perfection, or must the person first meet the conditions described in Moroni 10:32?

“And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” Does “life eternal” refer specifically to eternal life, or does it simply mean immortality?

What is salvation in Alma 11:40-41?

Yes, grace is necessary from the start. However, Moroni 10:32 also speaks to certain conditions that must be met before grace becomes sufficient.

There, fixed it for you, you picked the wrong word to change. @bluebell “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” Jesus’ audience is focused on “works,” and Jesus redirects their attention to what true “work” really means. An article from Ensign qualifies grace and salvation. “But, if we wish to overcome spiritual death and enter back into God's presence, we must be obedient to laws and principles. This is exaltation by works. Thus, according to this explanation, we are saved by grace and exalted by works.”