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  1. We are speaking of a passage that says the natural man...all humans....are an enemy to God. We are God's enemy. God made us, or created a situation, where we all would end up His enemy unless we put off the natural man. What is so hard about this?
  2. The comments are sincere. And yes I do know the doctrine. Quite well. Maybe you should consider some of the absurdity of that doctrine. Its all about the problem of evil and suffering and reconciling it with a loving God. I am surprised this is so triggering for you.
  3. I am not sure we are clear on the nature of what an intelligence is. Abraham seems to use the word in the framework of a spirit. I have more on this in a more fuller post I am working on. So I am not sure how that helps.
  4. What is the difference? If I am an enemy to someone they view me as their enemy. It says I am God's enemy not that he is mine.
  5. Meh? So to get the best for my kid I should become his enemy, threaten him with eternal, Give him cancer or starve him or not step in when he is child and someone kidnap him, sexually abuse him and/or murder him. And I should send one of my kids to live in abject poverty and misery and another to live in luxury. Just because I want the best for him. And words have meaning and are used in certain way to convey a message.
  6. Guilt is healthy when it is an emotion that causes enough remorse to motivate us to change a bad behavior. Shame is excessive guilt that requires us to be excessively penitent, causes feelings of worthlessness and causes us even after the bad behavior is changes to feel that we are really not as worthy as we may have been. What is really sin is another discussion. Creating guilt for something that really is not "sin" is shaming.
  7. You believe certain person's speak for God yet you want to dismiss what those persons said 40 years ago even though they said it from the GC pulpit. This seems a bit ironic.
  8. Yes it was ad hominem. My apologies. But I am wondering if we well really accomplish much more in this discussion. I did give you my definition of shame already.
  9. God sent us to a fallen world where by our nature we would sin and become God's enemy.
  10. You seem like a young and rather immature person. Talk to me in 20 or 30 years.
  11. All some interesting and thoughtful responses. I am very tied up today but have some thoughts to share. If do not respond right away its because I am busy and my response to the many comments above will take me a bit of time to put together. Thanks
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