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If I won the lottery would the Church accept tithing on that?


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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

What is the difference that makes the difference between playing the state/national lottery with ponying up money at a high school football game raffle for the chance of winning the drawing prize?

As I googled around comparing the two, my initial thought was it's rare to find a football game raffle offering a chance at instant wealth, whereas it was rare to find a state/national lottery that isn't showcasing such a picture.  So my initial gut-reflex answer was "lotteries promise a shot at transformative wealth, local raffles are about supporting the [local mascot name], and you might win $50, or maybe a trip to Cancun at the top end."

"Mega millions", "Lucky 4 Life", "Win up to $250,000", "Lucky Loot", "Play the new All About the Benjamins Scratch Game for your chance to win up to $50K 💰"   Those are some of the state lottery slogans, I was not surprised.

I was surprised to find high school raffle offerings with a grand prize of $5k, $25k, $35k.   More of this than I thought:

April-Knight-Raffle-Promo-Poster-copy-scaled.jpg?ssl=1 

Gotta sell over 800 raffle tickets just to cover expenses there.  For the school to actually fund some programs, I'd guess they're hoping to sell 1500-2000 tickets or more.  

 

 

So I guess the answer to your question, would be "maybe nothing, it depends on the raffle".  Whereas just about all the govt lotteries make emotionally-charged appeals that seem to have the biggest impact on the lowest-IQ and lowest-income folks, a much lower percentage of local raffles do that.   (I'm not saying anyone is low-IQ for buying a raffle ticket.  But the dumber folks are, the less they understand the odds, and I'm guessing the higher the possibility they might spend more than they can afford.)

 

(Full disclosure: I once won a $100 gift card by showing up to a meeting, but I was entered for just showing up, I didn't have to buy a ticket.)

 

 

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
Posted
6 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Aren't the odds of being involved in an automobile accident on the way to get your ticket better than the odds of winning the lottery?

Ha! Absolutely, and don't forget the 'lightening strike' risk too! I would imagine there are myriad 'more likely' risks I run by simply traveling to Evanston but then again, none of the risks if they were to happen would fetch me millions... ; ) 

Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

As I googled around comparing the two, my initial thought was it's rare to find a football game raffle offering a chance at instant wealth, whereas it was rare to find a state/national lottery that isn't showcasing such a picture.  So my initial gut-reflex answer was "lotteries promise a shot at transformative wealth, local raffles are about supporting the [local mascot name], and you might win $50, or maybe a trip to Cancun at the top end."

"Mega millions", "Lucky 4 Life", "Win up to $250,000", "Lucky Loot", "Play the new All About the Benjamins Scratch Game for your chance to win up to $50K 💰"   Those are some of the state lottery slogans, I was not surprised.

I was surprised to find high school raffle offerings with a grand prize of $5k, $25k, $35k.   More of this than I thought:

April-Knight-Raffle-Promo-Poster-copy-scaled.jpg?ssl=1 

Gotta sell over 800 raffle tickets just to cover expenses there.  For the school to actually fund some programs, I'd guess they're hoping to sell 1500-2000 tickets or more.  

 

 

So I guess the answer to your question, would be "maybe nothing, it depends on the raffle".  Whereas just about all the govt lotteries make emotionally-charged appeals that seem to have the biggest impact on the lowest-IQ and lowest-income folks, a much lower percentage of local raffles do that.   (I'm not saying anyone is low-IQ for buying a raffle ticket.  But the dumber folks are, the less they understand the odds, and I'm guessing the higher the possibility they might spend more than they can afford.)

 

(Full disclosure: I once won a $100 gift card by showing up to a meeting, but I was entered for just showing up, I didn't have to buy a ticket.)

 

 

That's some good research there. : ) I love the raffle ticket poster! I too had no idea they got so big! But are you suggesting the difference to make the difference in whether or not it is appropriate to play the lottery is whether they appeal to my base desire to become a millionaire? After all, don't the state lotteries route a percentage of the monies to schools?

Edited by Vanguard
Edited to add: I remember by grandmother would save a bunch of pennies to play the fabled 'penny slots' in Wendover. : )
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

That's some good research there. : ) I love the raffle ticket poster! I too had no idea they got so big! But are you suggesting the difference to make the difference in whether or not it is appropriate to play the lottery is whether they appeal to my base desire to become a millionaire? After all, don't the state lotteries route a percentage of the monies to schools?

If you read Elder Oaks’ speech on gambling it is a very poor payoff for the schools for the amount of money ‘donated’ as iirc 75% goes to expenses.

And my guess is that money is just used to fill the school budget and it is not in addition to what they already get from the government…if so, schools don’t benefit but some other government program that might not be so worthy might.

Edited by Calm
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you read Elder Oaks’ speech on gambling it is a very poor payoff for the schools for the amount of money ‘donated’ as iirc 75% goes to expenses.

And my guess is that money is just used to fill the school budget and it is not in addition to what they already get from the government…if so, schools don’t benefit but some other government program that might not be so worthy might.

No doubt this is a problem. Attached is the general landscape for California - https://www.kcra.com/article/california-lottery-jackpot-money-schools-get/44591582

Regardless, the difference to make the difference as to whether or not I should be playing the state/national lotteries cannot be based on how much of the monies actually go to the schools can it? Simply put, we do not endorse games of chance regardless of what happens with the money. Period. In my mind, that would include school raffles would it not?

Edited by Vanguard
Posted

In my area we have the Lotto 6/49 in which 6 numbers are chosen from 49. Thee odds of getting the 6 number match is about 1 in 13.9 million.  What is interesting ,being that any 6 number combination has the same odds, no one picks (123456) or any other straight.

Posted
1 hour ago, Vanguard said:

But are you suggesting the difference to make the difference in whether or not it is appropriate to play the lottery is whether they appeal to my base desire to become a millionaire?

Yep.  I suppose another difference between gambling and govt lotteries, would be that the govt stuff might not also be co-located with the other vices of sex work and booze and the drug trade and whatnot.  (I almost added "organized crime and corruption" to the list, then I thought twice about the purity of govt. :) )

 

Quote

After all, don't the state lotteries route a percentage of the monies to schools?

Govt lotteries are to fund govt stuff.  Casinos and gambling apps are to enrich whoever owns/developed the casino or app.  No matter who is doing it or what their motivations, the tactics of appealing to base desire (aka, a tax on people bad at math) seems omnipresent in lotteries and gambling, and maybe only occasionally present in local raffle things.

Posted

If I won the lottery would the Church accept tithing on that? 

1.  Don't tell them, if you feel you should pay it.

2. If you don't feel you should pay it, don't.         "It's not 'gambling money', it's a gift from God that I expected."    Same facts, different interpretation.

What's the difference between "gambling money" and a "miracle"?   Do you certify that ever dollar you DO pay as tithing is NOT from gambling money?

Use your agency, pray about it, and do what you think is right, and shut up about it either way.  ;)

 

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Use your agency, pray about it, and do what you think is right, and shut up about it either way.

Indeed.  At the end of the day, no matter how much against gambling I am, it's none of my dang business if you're gonna gamble, and it's none of my dang business if you pay tithing on your winnings or not.  And if I'm your finance clerk or bishop, the only way I'd ever know, is if you came up to me and told me.

It's just that... well... the more you gamble, the less $$ you'll have.  An average story here will have someone down hundreds or thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars across a lifetime of playing the lottery.  But boy howdy did it feel good to pay your $30 tithing the one time you hit that $300 jackpot!  You will spend your life thinking you've got a chance at being one of those people who hit the millions.  You will not be that person.  You will die never having been that person.

Source: People who also understand that "You'll never die by getting hit by lightning" is a safe thing to say openly to pretty much any random crowd of thousands of people.

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, bluebell said:

I saw a bumper sticker once that said “Lotteries: A tax on people who are bad at math”. 😂

When the lottery gets big enough for people at work to start mentioning it in conversations, I always offer to accept their $2 and tell them they are a loser. ;)

 

Edited by Amulek
Posted
1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

And if I'm your finance clerk or bishop, the only way I'd ever know, is if you came up to me and told me.

Well, if somebody turned in a tithing slip on Sunday with a check for (/looks up current cash payout) $14.5M, I suspect you would probably have a hunch.

Man, would I love to be in that clerks' office!

(Note: You can avoid having your local unit know how much you have donated by sending your tithing to Salt Lake directly.)

 

Posted
On 5/26/2024 at 4:01 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Hypothetical here; just curious.

I like the idea of buying land in countries the Church doesn't yet own land and donating it anonymously to the Church - if I couldn't pay tithing on winning the lottery. 

If the Church doesn't accept tithing money on lottery or gambling winnings, what creative ways would you use to still comply w/ the 10% commandment?

I've seen where Church leaders have advised against gambling, and that advice is sound. But where is the policy that says the Church doesn't accept tithing for gains made while gambling?

In the Gospel Topics article on gambling, tithing isn't mentioned. In the April 2005 General Conference President Gordon B. Hinckley devoted one of his addresses to the topic of gambling, but said nothing about the Church not accepting tithing earned through gambling.

As a general rule, I don't gamble -- though I have bought lottery tickets from time to time. If I won the lottery, you better believe I'd tithe it. 

 

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I've seen where Church leaders have advised against gambling, and that advice is sound. But where is the policy that says the Church doesn't accept tithing for gains made while gambling?

The current handbook does not say that the church won't accept tithing money on gambling or lottery winnings. 

The new handbook seems to be more principle based than laying out rules. 38.8.17 says that the church "opposes and counsels against gambling in any form ...[including}...government sponsored lotteries."

If a member of the church follows the principle being taught here and doesn't participate in such activities there will never be a question of whether or not to pay tithing on the winnings.  Hence no need to explicitly state that no tithing on lottery winnings is accepted.

Teach the principle and let them govern themselves as someone once said.

Edited by ksfisher
Posted
10 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

The current handbook does not say that the church won't accept tithing money on gambling or lottery winnings. 

The new handbook seems to be more principle based than laying out rules. 38.8.17 says that the church "opposes and counsels against gambling in any form ...[including}...government sponsored lotteries."

If a member of the church follows the principle being taught here and doesn't participate in such activities there will never be a question of whether or not to pay tithing on the winnings.  Hence no need to explicitly state that no tithing on lottery winnings is accepted.

Unless it's given to you or you inherit it. 

10 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Teach the principle and let them govern themselves as someone once said.

 

Posted
On 5/29/2024 at 10:56 AM, Rain said:

I'm no fan of his by any means, but in this context I wouldn't really count it as close enough. True he would have "gambled" with the cost of a stamp in 1993, but entering a drawing isn't really the same as buying a lottery ticket - unless as calm has mentioned the problem of gambling is getting something for nothing. Which is kind of ironic because then the drawings/sweepstakes would be worse than gambling since you actually do put money down with gambling.

I understand where you are coming from in terms of the doctrinal (and related moral) implications of the difference, but functionally they are very similar. PCH avoids having its sweepstakes being declared a lottery by making entry "free" and by using funds from its revenues to pay the prizes. Make no mistake, however, that they will put heavy pressure on entrants to buy their products and consume every bit of their advertising. Moreover, despite that fact that it's illegal, many people STILL believe that buying things increases your chances of winning. PCH specifically tells them otherwise, but also benefits from this belief. I am NOT saying that PCH is a lottery, but it is a bit more nuanced than simply either-or.

As to my "close enough" comment, I was more focused on the fact that both he and lottery winners received a large sum of money through no effort of their own and no industrious action. Some people consider that just as immoral as any casino. I don't happen to be one of them, by the way, but it's really not a cut-and-dry comparison.

Posted
On 5/26/2024 at 3:04 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Isn't investing in the stock market essentially gambling?

No. Not even close.

Posted

I have a 1968 General Handbook of Instructions, the section on tithing says nothing about the source of funds, other than "See D&C 119", and mention of the word "income".

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Unless it's given to you or you inherit it. 

Heh - In the '80's, my grandparents were aging and trying to allocate their assets out to their multiple kids to avoid fights.  Mom and aunts and uncles each got a small check, with the admonition "Don't pay tithing on this - we've already paid it."  From the gossip that filtered down to us grandkids, one or two kids paid tithing on the check, the rest did not.

Posted
2 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I have a 1968 General Handbook of Instructions, the section on tithing says nothing about the source of funds, other than "See D&C 119", and mention of the word "income".

Heh - In the '80's, my grandparents were aging and trying to allocate their assets out to their multiple kids to avoid fights.  Mom and aunts and uncles each got a small check, with the admonition "Don't pay tithing on this - we've already paid it."  From the gossip that filtered down to us grandkids, one or two kids paid tithing on the check, the rest did not.

My thought with inheritance was inheriting the lottery pieces before the lottery was called.

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