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About ttribe

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    Worships at the feet of the car gods.

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  1. Yes. I've stated my opinion that the middle ground is nonviable. I did engage in some reasoning on the matter with pogi. I find your reasoning far too esoteric to even warrant an argument, as you say.
  2. Perhaps I should have been more direct for the colloquialism impaired - In my opinion, having looked at the evidence and the context of the relevant doctrinal statements of Church leadership, I do not believe a viable middle ground exists on this issue.
  3. This is the point I was also trying to make to @pogi. The truth claims to many, many foundational elements of the Church are thoroughly undermined by the "Inspired Fiction" theory on the BoM. On average, I'm hesitant to look at issues at their polar opposites with no middle ground, but I just can't get my head around a viable middle ground on this one.
  4. I appreciate that. I only brought it up as a disclosure of my position so the reader could evaluate for herself or himself what my bias may or may not be.
  5. Are you really asking me to outline the complete set of evidence upon which I based my conclusion I could no longer believe in the historicity and divine origins of the Book of Mormon (for they are intertwined)? C'mon, Spencer. I don't think that can of worms needs to be opened here; not to mention that there is so much deeply personal and painful involved in the loss of that belief. I just don't think we should do this. Suffice it to say, I have considered all available evidence (about which I know), both temporal and spiritual, and reached the conclusion there was not sufficient evidence to continue justifying my belief in the Book of Mormon. This is not a situation in which I am attempting to persuade anyone to adopt or validate my conclusion(s) on that issue.
  6. As to your first question, I have not done an empirical analysis, but I have substantial reason to suspect the answer is 'yes.' As to your second question, go ahead and apply it to every single claim to authority made by every president of the Church from Joseph Smith to Russel M. Nelson and I think you get a sense of the real problem, here.
  7. I understand what you are trying to argue, but I don't see evidence you've thought through what the hypothetical position you are allowing to exist actually means in terms of undermining the credibility of every single claim made by every alleged prophet to have led the Church. ETA: In the interest of full disclosure, I DO have a position on this and believe there is insufficient evidence to support Book of Mormon historicity.
  8. It would mean that EVERY SINGLE president of the Church from Joseph Smith to Russel M. Nelson was 100% dead wrong on the origins of the Book of Mormon. Let the ramifications of that one sink if for a bit.
  9. First, it is most certainly NOT the case that "all the other Maricopa County officials are good people." Geographically, Maricopa County covers 9,200 square miles. MC has a population of approx. 4.5M. It has all the same problems, if not more, than any other populace county in the States. Anecdotally, I discovered a corruption scheme involving a MC public official in the course of investigating elements of a marital divorce case...so, there's a at least ONE OTHER bad one, out there. Second, Arpaio's tenure was during a protracted period of local anger about alleged softness on crime and alleged uncontrolled immigration. It's an embarrassing chapter to many of us. This was also during a time when the voting population of Maricopa County was overwhelmingly conservative Republican. He played to his base and people looked past his glaring shortcomings. The complexion of Maricopa County has changed dramatically in the last 10 years.
  10. As a resident of said county, I can tell you that the two politicians were elected in very different environments and there was no publicly available information that Petersen was engaged in anything dodgy at the time of his election. Arpaio is a completely different situation and he was long overdue for removal from office when it finally happened. Moreover, he has tried to return to public "service" a few times since then and has been rejected soundly by voters. How about you not engage in disparaging innuendo when your education, experience and training are more than adequate to know better than to fall prey to illusory pattern detection?
  11. Yes, Bob, it is. Nice of you to finally acknowledge that in this case.
  12. I didn't see this anywhere else. My apologies if this is a re-post. https://mi.byu.edu/in-memoriam-m-gerald-bradford/
  13. I certainly never said anything like that. But, feel free to be as hostile as you wish...totally unnecessary, but whatever makes you happy.
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