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    My purpose in being here is to influence others to understand how the philosophy of Pragmatism relates to Mormonism. I found the church through my philosophical understanding of Pragmatism.

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  1. They already are, in a different language game that's Gotta get past dualism to see it. Suggest you read some philosophy of language.
  2. Thanks for proving by science that "faith healing" ACTUALLY happens. The "placebo effect" is direct evidence that it works; in attempting to prove one "truth", the evidence can also be seen as confirming what wasn't even considered. So according to this, the healing is "due to ... faith". Science proves that faith works for healing. OOPS And precisely how does THAT work? Get out the "Faith-O-Meter" I guess.... Spirit / energy is matter. - Joseph Smith, Oppenheimer, and Einstein. E=MC2
  3. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle! You are absolutely on the right track! The key to it all, IMO, is below in my Rorty quotes- we must understand that ALL we CAN know about "reality" HAS to be created from a human perspective, because what we are actually seeing/ hearing! Every word, every perception, every word spoken for ALL HISTORY including ALL PERCEIVED by "SCIENTISTS", written and described are CREATED by A HUMAN MIND. THINK about it!!! What non- human experience do we KNOW ABOUt? Even God is a super-human but a human nevertheless BEFORE he was deified. We CANNOT get outside our bodies - until we see "face to face", but now we are looking at the world through the MIRROR ("glass darkly") of what limits the living human brain. It's like having permanently tinted sunglasses on, and trying to discuss colors we have never seen as they are!! It's not that the LIGHT changes, but its PERCEPTION depends on how it is perceived and tested. So yes! And describing such vague sensations as the Still Small Voice, that varies in so many ways? And then having a person trying to "describe" what he THINKS he heard from someone like a prophet- does that even have a CHANCE of being described correctly by someone who has never had the experience?? It's like a blind man trying to comprehend the "urgency" of a red sign, or the bright attention-getting burst of light of the color of yellow. How do you describe it to anyone who has not experienced it? Not possible. Good for you!! Think about this and repeat it mentally until it becomes part of you! Rorty:
  4. I recall an incident where some scout leaders brought some chemicals to a scout camp to duplicate that "miracle" from the OT- I can't remember the reference and am too lazy to look it up. They put together some wood and poured "water" (chemical 1) on the wood, and then put more "water" from a different container (chemical 2) and suddenly the two chemicals reacted and caused the wood to catch on fire. The results: more little boy literalists, who are probably now critics of the church for its literalism. I thought the whole thing was absolutely abominable. To me it was an act of "spiritual" child abuse They may now want to know "why it doesn't happen for me?"
  5. 40 years? How long does it take to become Perfect as our Father is? Stop looking at pictures of the world and feel the EXPERIENCE of feeling. Contemporary art taught me a lot- now I see the world differently. See meaning. See symbolically. See the EXPERIENCE within you, rather than the picture. For me, art can be "scripture". https://www.moma.org/calendar/galleries/5115 Incidentally there is a reason that Postmodernism and "abstract art" have happened in the same era- because the correspondence theory of truth simply does not work. Squiggles on a page cannot "represent" emotion or even MEANING- to create emotions, one must be symbolic in words or painting or any visual art. I see scripture that way as well. It is never "literal" and I see that as a great mistake to see it that way. It presents a spiritual journey to God and holiness. Immerse yourself in the journey, not the destination- the journey IS the destination.
  6. This is a perfect example of what this thread is about. https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262048804/the-blind-spot/
  7. Of course we can. What gives people comfort may also irritate others. You are still not getting it. Religion is medicinal. One works for one but not for another. You still do not see it.
  8. Take it for what it is - FAITH. HOPE for things UNSEEN. It is a paradigm through which one relies on the mercy of the Lord toward his CHILDREN, and I would argue the best paradigm humanity - since God IS a super-Human- has ever come up with. I take it with a grain of salt- sometimes a few pounds of salt- to see the words for what they are- squiggles on a page to be interpreted by what the Light of Christ/ Spirit, tells us personally. What difference the belief makes IN THIS WORLD is what I care about, and that is learning how to deal with at least ONE member of the "rest of humanity" and especially those I love.
  9. What perhaps is missing in your paradigm is that" EVERY knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ." Everyone, on the other side if not before will see the SUN of God (no typo!) and it will be so obvious to EVERYONE that Jesus IS Christ, the anointed one. It will be like looking directly at the sun and denying its brilliance and power, its warmth and the fact that it is the source of LIGHT and LIFE in our universe. Our universe will suddenly be clearly an imitation of the REAL REALTY that surrounds us, but that we do not see due to the weaknesses of our presently human bodies. WE will no longer be "Seeing things through a MIRROR DARKLY (a mirror because what we see is made by our own brain/mind) BUT THEN FACE TO FACE. It will be obvious to EVERYONE except the sons of perdition who deny the obvious reality that the SUN OF GOD IS God! "The sun with healing in HIS WINGS" And that includes a wife, a buddy, all relatives OR ELSE THE WORLD WOULD BE A WASTE at the Lord's second coming! But this, for me, is the way I see it and is one of the prime reasons I joined the church. I now have two children who have become inactive, one of which went on a mission. They are good, honest and gentle people but church is "not for them" My paradigm tells me that we will ALL be together finally in the end, where they will see the truth, undeniably. Doesn't bother me a bit. I once went through a phase in which I bought into the communist view that "religion is the opiate of the masses" But I got better, and so will they.
  10. @Teancum I cannot imagine that a Being filling the definitions of what a "God" should be will punish anyone who does their very very best to follow their faith as they see it. And for LDS folks who believe in a harsh God, they can always think of how bad the Telestial Kingdom will be,while those who imagine God as merciful and loving Being will see it as I believe He is, Our Father who art in heaven.
  11. So what? Why should you believe what others do? Find one that fits what you believe, make up your own, or just shrug your shoulders and do something else. I've been through a few myself. Catholicism, Zoroastrianism, Stoicism, Buddhism, B'hai - and others which I found seriously important for the ideal paradigm for me. All worked somewhat,but I found LDS- AS I INTERPRET IT presenting the best paradigm that I have found so far. I know that God or"The Universe" speaks to me through this paradigm. As an allegory, I find it works perfectly for me. I cannot find a better allegory than to emulate Christ to become as perfect a human as I can, and teach my family what I find most importation. Per Alma 32, it is the best paradigm invented by humans, since also God is a human, also part of the allegory. I don't care what others were taught or believe at all. That's THEIR problem, but I at least try to pass on what works for me, because that IS actually part of my interpretation of what is "sweet" to me.
  12. This is a perfect example of what this thread is about. https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262048804/the-blind-spot/
  13. Of course they can be. Do cultural values all agree with each other world wide? Can they all be wrong or right for everyone? The answer is that it seems to ME that that is what you are not understanding. I see the "subjective" as more important than the "objective". That's where we all "live" after all. You apparently see ONE way to "TRUTH" while I see many. Whatever turns you on, dude!
  14. Of course you must follow their commandments of the methodology to classify "correct" data from "incorrect", insufficient or tainted data. I have never heard of a sane LDS person saying you will burn in hell for believing in evolution, but if they did, the belief must give themselves some SUBJECTIVE motivation for believing that, perhaps because psychologically it makes them feel better about their superiority with God, just as for many the BELIEF in science makes THEM feel superior to the stupid religionists. This puts YOUR definition of evidence ahead of the psychological evidence that I am looking at, which indicates that YOUR position on YOUR understanding of YOUR definition of science all of which, as is true for all of us, gives us "something" - some reason - to accept ANY and EVERY belief we decide to accept. Remember Alma32 That which is "SWEET" to you is TRUTH for YOU. I see that as a religious statement as well as a psychological statement. Belief in the Atonement for example gives us comfort that all we feel guilty about can be forgiven. Science gives us certainty because now we have what is defined as "evidence" - by science- and therefore it is TRUE! hallelujah brother! But which is "really true"? Read Alma 32 for the details, IMO. Philosophically AND psychologically one has to conclude that it is YOUR human subjective experience which defines what is true for you. Hence Postmodernism. Truth is relative to the person and his/her human EXPERIENCE which affects their beliefs. That is exactly what NO ONE can tell you - except your own personal feelings. THAT is the "subjective" which I see as THE answer to all human experience, but I cannot tell you what is most important to you- or as Oprah would say , "your truth".
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