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CV75

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  1. What do you see as the substance of his piece? I see it being that social and political pressures tend to cause friction between members. This is as old as the New Testament (at least), though the issues du jour may change. I'm sure this is why Jesus made the point to address doctrinal questions and concerns with unity and love, not contention. How else could we access the gift and power of the Holy Ghost? This was addressed recently in General Conference, and I believe the last one or two as well (probably more). Deep conversion to Christ helps us navigate these differences. No matter what the Lord has revealed to us (personally or by the prophets), the more significant and more personally meaningful these revelations are to us, I believe the intent is that charitable behavior is commensurate with the significance of the revelation. Otherwise, to paraphrase, "Amen" to the power of God to that person and "Amen" to the correct interpretation and application of divine knowledge. Some may call it simply moral authority or credibility.
  2. There was not a standard name of the church until Jesus told the disciples to His name). I'm sure it took awhile to catch on. There are several types of baptism in the practices of ancient Israel which the Lehites presumably carried with them, so this wouldn't be unique. Early members of the Restored Church also would re-baptize themselves at various junctures of recommitment. organization, divine endowment, etc. As the Church gets more established, the protocols become more normalized. There is "establish" as in to institute, and then there is "establish" as in to promulgate.
  3. I see political ideology and socio-sexual activism (pro- or con-) as primarily driven by self-interest, where "redefined" concepts of charity, compassion and assertiveness become tools to an end. Political ideology and social (including socio-sexual) activism are simply not the Lord's way. 3 Nephi 11 and 12 teaches charity and unity in considering points of doctrine. I think everything in the Plan of Salvation applies to all of God's children equally, efforts to understand their nature by categorizing (alas, often separating them) by socio-sexual terms and ideologies notwithstanding. There is far more that we know about the children of God than we don't, simply because we have infinitely so much in common.
  4. Randomness and chaos are part of a fallen world, and people die in tsunamis or otherwise suffer "as God stood by and disregarded His children's prayers." The Lord atoned for this and so these unfortunates will learn the Gospel in the spirit world, have temple ordinances performed in their behalf, be resurrected, and receive a glory they are willing to receive. Whether randomness and chaos are laws of nature, or the absence thereof, doesn’t matter in the atonement of Christ. That is how all-powerful, benevolent and all-knowing He is. The amount of non-random wickedness and intentional destruction and chaos are a function of our choices, not God's, and so the range of wickedness and disorder is variable for the individual, community, society, and global levels. These things He "allowed" to occur -- and often He does intervene to rescue His children from harm, with or without prayers -- is swallowed up in the atonement wherein He Himself suffered these things. All in our best interest. Oddly perhaps, the answer to the problem of evil is faith. Perhaps the problem is with theodicy itself, the incorrect assumption God must be vindicated.
  5. Randomness and chaos are part of a fallen world, and Matthew was thus struck by lightning. The Lord atoned for this and so he will learn the Gospel in the spirit world, have temple ordinances performed in his behalf, be resurrected, and receive a glory he is willing to receive. Whether randomness and chaos are laws of nature, or the absence thereof, doesn’t matter in the atonement of Christ. That is how all-powerful, benevolent and all-knowing He is. The amount of non-random wickedness and intentional destruction and chaos are a function of our choices and so the range of wickedness and disorder is variable for the individual, community, society, and global levels. Oddly perhaps, the answer to the problem of evil is faith. Perhaps the problem is with theodicy, the incorrect assumption God must be vindicated.
  6. My take is that "natural man" is King Benjamin's term, and something we create, and is not the same as the Pearl of Great Price reference to God creating / organizing things spiritually before they were naturally upon the earth in Eden, and before the Fall (see Moses 3: 5, 9). After the Fall, “natural” took on a more telestial glow with the attendant problems outlined in Mosiah 3:19 [EDIT]: rather, Mosiah 16:3-13 (and Alma 42:10, 26, 30 -- but read the whole chapter! -- also). I believe agency and love are the greatest gifts we can have. Together, they are “joy.” I say “gifts” because while we may have some innate agency and charity as intelligences/spirits from as far back as anyone can conceptualize, God introduced the ways and means for expanding agency and love, respectively, by providing greater opportunities than those we could find in our then-present estate and His Son and all He does. Thus, we can choose to become saints through the atonement of Christ. (See Abraham Chapter 3, notably verses 2, 12 and 17 onward). This seems pretty straightforward (and brilliant!) to me.
  7. Maybe it would be good for the teacher (or class member) to mention that these sorts of things can be taken figuratively, literally or both, but the important thing is to charitably apply one's beliefs to keeping the covenants. We "liken all scriptures unto us."
  8. I find that bias can run counter to revelation (both personal or prophetic), but of course it is best to act on the revelation when it comes. Absent light and revelation, I think there is no "right" or "wrong" bias, which is why I hesitate to conclude that any pre-revelation parties were correct/incorrect on any particular matter, especially to support my current bias. They were doing their best with the light they had, and revelation helps us all look forward with progress
  9. Absolutely, we haven’t all the data, so we usually interpret what we do have in a way that supports the biases that drive and color our observations in the first place. I can justify @JLHPROF's line of thinking with scripture, which would be subject to further analysis and discussion if I were to share it, just as my own view. I too feel that God would not be the one to lose patience and seal shut the door on any of his children (do you know anyone that teaches this?). His modus operandi and granting glories and kingdoms is not described that way in the D&C; rather, they are the most appreciated gifts that can be given.
  10. Yes, please start that thread as I would like to participate. My take is that "natural man" is King Benjamin's term, and something we create, not the Pearl of Great Price term which uses "natural" to mean "post-spiritual." God created things spiritually before they were naturally upon the earth in Eden, and before the Fall. The rest is touched upon in @Kenngo1969's post.
  11. I like the epithet -- Call me Ishmael, and make it "Ahab it"
  12. I see the 'adaptation to communal failures" is as a subset of mental (emotional and social self-reliance). I've seen people putting more of their priority / wherewithal into prayer, study, ministering, etc. To me, "to strengthen our personal spiritual foundations" is simply to strengthen our testimony. This can be done by applying Mosiah 3:19: 19 For the anatural bman is an cenemy to God, and has been from the dfall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he eyields to the enticings of the fHoly Spirit, and gputteth off the hnatural man and becometh a isaint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a jchild, ksubmissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.
  13. Please see Calm’s helpful references. Its sealing role would prevent the continuation of one glory and its attendant works into a greater kingdom of glory (D&C 76 shows that the reverse occurs for ministering purposes). D&C 88 shows that the continuation of resurrected glory is a static condition, since once they are quickened by their attendant glory, “they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.” They continue to return to their own place. These courses are fixed, and the light of the countenance of their Lord shines upon each in its hour, time and season, according to the ministering assignments described in D&C 76.
  14. I don’t think it really matters what terms we use as long s the discussion eventually yields a mutually clarifying description. There are ways to communicate more efficiently but we are not philosophers @mfbukowski, a plug! For example, “eternal progression” and “eternal increase” are not scriptural terms, but we understand them to mean advancement to godhood and never-ending continuation of the seeds, respectively, as described in D&C 132 (i.e., “the exaltation and continuation of the lives and “continuation of the seeds forever and ever"). When it comes to gods, “they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue” and “by this law is the continuation of the works of [the] Father [both in the world and out of the world should they continue].” When it comes to seeds, “they continue as innumerable as the stars.” I suppose this can be viewed in two ways: the works of the Father (the eternal round) are accomplished (1) when children are born and stay in the covenant and remain sealed to us; and (2) when spirit children are brought forth. This is why I prefer to use “continuation” over “progression.” But neither of these touch upon post-resurrection progression from the telestial kingdom to exaltation. In my mind, what keeps this idea from jibing well with D&C 132 is that out of the world, they (people, couples or families) either continue as gods or not based upon the sealing power as validated by the Holy Spirit of Promise. The way this Section is written, the route to continuation is made at the juncture between this world ("in") and the resurrection ("out"), and there is no indication that this dichotomy is not literal and only for heightened effect (as “eternal” is iteral in the terms “eternal progression” and “eternal increase”).
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