Kevin Christensen

Try Truman Madsen, "The Olive Press". https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/truman-g-madsen/olive-press/ FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

Just watched His Girl Friday, with Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell from 1939. I have seen it many times before, but this time was renewed by being a new release in blu ray 3D. The fellow who produced the new blu ray doesn't expect to sell many copies, but is just a fan of 3D. It actually works very well, with the depth adding to the newsroom scenes, with all the desks and people and phones and typewriters. I find that the 3D draws my eyes to the backgrounds, and makes me much more aware of the setting. It felt new again. There are at least three other versions of the story, an earlier one with the original title, The Front Page, and one with Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau, and then another with Katherine Turner and Burt Reynolds which fell flat. The incandescent spark that sets His Girl Friday apart began when the director (Howard Hawks) had a script girl reading the part which Pat 0'Brian had played in the original, and realized that it was better that way. Rosalind Russell's Hildy Johnson blew everyone away, though she was not the first, second or third choice. And of course, His Girl Friday is stuffed with amazing character actors, everyone shining brightly and stealing scenes. No one is there just to take up space. Sparkling dialogue and brilliant deliveries. I still love Ray Bradbury. Every time October comes around, I think of the little passage at the start of his The October Country collection, about the sounds the Autumn people make when walking through the leaves. The seventh grade teachers may have had you read The Veldt, about children having a deadly playroom. Not his scariest story. When I was at the University 18th branch, an apartment full of female students told me that the scariest thing most of them had read was a chapter in Dandelion Wine, which they encountered all unawares that such a nostalgiac and lovely book would have such a tense chapter inside. When they all announced that they did not stoop to reading science fiction, I read them a Zelazny story, "Divine Madness" from the The Doors of His Face, The Lamps of his Mouth collection and dazzled them all.

I've read nearly everything Zelazny wrote. All but some poetry. All the novels and short stories. Someone recommended Nine Princes in Amber to me in 1975-6 ish time, after I got back from England. Read 300 SF novels that year. But I've read and re-read the 10 Amber novels several times. And Lord of Light, Jack of Shadows, Creatures of Light and Darkness, and have the six volume complete short stories. Met him at a signing in San Jose at one point I think early late 80s, or early 90s. For Lord of the Rings, I was in 7th grade, and my sister's English class decided to read Fellowship. But she started with The Hobbit, which passed from her to a brother to another brother and then to me. The business of having to wait for my turn for each successive book slowed down my reading, and I had a long walk to South Davis Junior high with Autumn darkening to Winter bleak and cold, and in my head, I always associated that with the trek to Mordor. I also got very fond of Ray Bradbury around that time. Later, Dune and Dune Messiah. But I fell out of the books halfway through Children of Dune. It seemed to me that the characters had lost an argument with the author about where the book was supposed to go. I also remain very fond of Fred Saberhagen's Empire of the East series, the related Swords series, and the Berserker stories, which I also discovered in 1975. (Saberhagen and Zelazny were close friends, as were Zelazny and Gaiman.) And also admire Jack Vance, whose Dying Earth stories were an influence on Zelazny's Jack of Shadows. Vance, like Bradbury and Zelazny was a distinctive stylist, the flavor of their prose being instantly recognizable and unique. Saberhagen's prose was not as distinctive, but his best stories just worked, especially The Black Mountains and Changling Earth, the Berserker stories. I also met Bradbury and Saberhagen at different times. And Scott Card a few times over the years. I originally read "Ender's Game" as a novelette in Analog, when it was first published. I remain very fond of Seventh Son, and Ender's Game, and many of his short stories. Especially "The Bully and the Beast". Nowadays, I don't read nearly as much fiction. But I read whatever Jasper Fforde (especially the Thursday Next series) and Jonathon Stroud (Bartimaeus and Lockwood and Co) produce. And I miss Terry Pratchett. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

Yes. We are also fond of Good Omens for both Gaiman and Pratchett. The first series more than the second. I haven't watched American Gods, based on a Gaiman books, nor Sandman. But I am looking forward to Anansi Boys, supposedly in production, which is my favorite of his novels. Like a blend of P. G. Wodehouse and Roger Zelazny. (Gaiman knew Zelazny.) The Audiobook is perfectly read by Lenny Henry. After I read both American Gods and Anansi Boys on flights, I spotted the Audiobook of Anansi Boys and got it for my wife and I to listen to on a long trip. Kevin C. Canonsburg, PA

Recently saw The Bank of Dave, which was on Netflix. The story is set in Burnley, Lancashire in the UK, and since I spent seven months of my 1973-1975 mission just up the road in Nelson, and two more months in Blackburn Lancashire, not far away, I did go there for district splits fairly often. It's a truish story of about a real guy who wanted to start a local bank to benefit community needs. It's good, (not as perfect as Local Hero, set in Scotland and has the most beautiful Mark Knopfler soundtrack, and which used similar tropes in story telling) and is a good watch. Quirky and feel good. It depicts just the kind of businessman to impress Hugh Nibley in light of "What is Zion? A Distant View". Took some liberties with reality, though not quite as many as the Fisherman's Friends, another Brit film inspired by a real shanty-singing group from the same charming Port Isaac Cornwall costal village where Doc Martin was filmed (Shauna and I spent a night there in 2015), but also fun to watch. And a bit trippy for RMs from England and Anglophiles in general. Kevin C. Canonsburg, PA

I still have my Coraline 3D blu ray and a Sony 70" tv that plays passive 3D. We've watched that with our children, nephews and neices, and granddaughters. V. cool. Another excellent film sourced from a Neil Gaiman story. Stardust is another based on his work, which is comparable in feel and quality and rewatchability to Princess Bride. Kevin C. Canonsburg, PA

I have not seen the Plates. But I have seen the effects they have had, and in my view, authentic plates and a real angel are the best explanation of what has happened then and since. Even Joseph's money digging associates were convinced enough to ransack the house and to hire another seer to come try to find the plates. The three and eight and additional informal witnesses were convinced not only by what they heard from Joseph, but also by what they saw and handled, and in several cases, the leaves they personally turned and the engravings they personally examined. And the point of all of that is not to prove anything to anyone against their will, to coerce belief, but rather to invite serious inquiry into the Book of Mormon and the Restoration. Personally, I have been making serious inquiries into the Book of Mormon for much of my adult life, and I am now seventy. I keep getting more impressed, not only on a number of topics for which I spend years of inquiry and referenced studies and scholarship that had not been available in Joseph Smith's day, but in keeping track of scholarship by other believers, I realize that people with other kinds of hard earned expertise have uncovered aspects of the text I would never have imagined if left to myself. And I like to keep abreast of serious critical arguments, and find that that they never bother to keep up with or seriously engage Latter-day Saint scholarship. And far from just talking or claiming this without substance, I have published over 40 essays on the topic in a range of journals and books, including one essay from Oxford University Press. Speaking of Joseph's alleged criminal intent, I have Sustaining the Law: Joseph Smith's Legal Encounters edited by Gordon Madsen, Jeffery N. Walker, and John W. Welch. This is a detailed study of Joseph Smith in relation to the law made possible by the Joseph Smith papers project. Among their notable conclusions, based on evidence, rather than winking insinuation, are that "Joseph [Smith] eventually paid his debts in full, even when they were enormous, as was the case in the collapse of the ill-starred Kirtland Safety society." (xviii). And "As a defendant, he was never convicted of any legal offense. Whenever he was given a fair hearing, he was found to be an upstanding an honest citizen." (xvii-xviii). and "Though he suffered legal wrongs, he usually did not choose to take them to court. For example, he was tarred and feathered in Ohio, and subject to libel and slander in Illinois, but did not seek judicial vindication. When he sued or petitioned for redress, he typically was concerned more with justice and protection for his people, rather than himself." (xvii). Yes that includes his trial as a glass looker. Madsen wrote the definitive exploration of that case in the legal context of the day. In these three areas, I notice that Joseph Smith is notably distinct in character and behavior compared one well-known orange-hued blowhard and actual convict who fancies himself as a wonderful story teller and as chosen by God. (I cannot imagine, "Big angel, strong angel, tears in his eyes, told me 'Sir, I want you to translate this book" rather than hawking a Patriotic Bible, printed in China at $3 cost, being sold for $59). Criminal intent, if it exists, is far easier to imply than demonstrate. But demonstrating that is something the law courts have gotten very good at, given time and information and actual interest. But as Iago proved with Othello and Desdemona, in the court of public and personal opinion, persuasion can work with much less than evidence and truth. So something caused the Book of Mormon. Was it criminal greed and story telling ability, or is it what Joseph Smith and the witnesses claimed it was? An inspired translation of an actual ancient record? The Book of Mormon contains a great many testable claims about the ancient world in times and places and cultures and behind the languages, that neither Joseph Smith, or any of his contemporaries could have imagined. And we know what they imagined, because we can compare View of the Hebrews, the Spaulding MS, and The Book of Pukei with what Joseph produced. (John Gee has a brilliant little essay called "The Wrong Kind of Book" exploring them.) And notice, for example, the volume on King Benjamin's Speech: That Ye May Learn Wisdom" that I have mentioned, let alone the Astons on Lehi's Journey, Gardner on The Book of Mormon as History, or literally hundreds more. To make the case, one must actually engage the full range of evidence and provide comparison and arguments that demonstrate via criteria that are not completely paradigm-dependent that one has a better account for that evidence, one that is accurate, detailed, comprehensive and coherent, fruitful, simple and clear, and promising, rather than dismissing it all as not worth a careful examination because after all, "Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?" FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

An Latter-day Saint reader, I've been particularly helped in understanding the Old Testament by these books: The Art of Biblical Narrative by Robert Alter, which pays close attention to type scenes and allusion. He shows how to read, to see and understand more of what is there. This book inspired Alan Goff to take a similar approach to the Book of Mormon. Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman. For a basic understanding of the Documentary Hypothesis. There are other approaches that see things this approach does not but this is helpful for orientation and insight. The Older Testament: : The Survival of from the Ancient Royal Cult in Sectarian Judaism and Early Christianity by Margaret Barker. She argues that a misreading has been forced upon modern readers by those who transmitted the books. Since the key period is 600 BCE, this book is of particular interest to Latter-day Saint readers. The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God by Margaret Barker. This looks closely at how the original theology has been changed in transmission, and looks at the importance for Christianity. This was the book that first attracted the attention of LDS scholars. Who Shall Ascend Into the Hill of the Lord? The Psalms in Israel's Temple Worship in the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon by LeGrand L. Baker and Stephen D. Ricks. They shows what happens if you put the Psalms in not just in the context of the temple, but in order in light of the temple. Old Testament and Related Studies by Hugh Nibley. The "Before Adam" talk was very important for me personally. Abraham in Egypt by Hugh Nibley. The essays on The Sacrifice of Isaac and The Sacrifice of Sarah changed my readings and understanding. In God's Image and Likeness: Ancient and Modern Perspectives on the Book of Moses by Jeffery Bradshaw Did God Have a Wife? by William Dever. For how archeology works and casts light on the text. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

So the issue is, which paradigm is better? An inspired translation of an ancient speech, or a "sponge theory" approach, where Joseph Smith draws on his background? Better requires comparison, and the most self-evident aspect of this graphic is that it does not mention or hint at the research that demonstrates the case that Benjamin's speech includes, just for starters, a comprehensive description of an ancient coronation ceremony. In the 1957 priesthood manual by Hugh Nibley, in a chapter called "Old World Ritual in the New World set out how the required steps, in order are, as summarized by Welch: The standard work on the speech is the huge 1998 FARMS volume, King Benjamin's Speech: That Ye May Learn Wisdom. It includes Tvedtnes's essay on the speech in the context of the Feast of the Tabernacles, and Welch's and Szinc's essential essay the speech in the context of Ancient Israelite Festivals, and much more more. Before that we also had Welch on the chiastic structure and since then, we have also had Mark Wright's observations on how the speech compares to the fairly recent discoveries at San Bartolo, which happen to depict a coronation on a tower contemporary with King Benjamin in Mesoamerica. And then we have to consider whether the speech has anything meaningful to say. The issues raised by King Benjamin's discourse are, at this stage of the debate, significant. My essay below survey the kinds of things that LDS scholars have uncovered and that any viable critique ought to directly address and explain. https://latterdaysaintmag.com/article-1-1644/ Nibley had observed renaissance scholars, in having to deal with the huge influx of manuscripts that drove the engine of the renaissance, had to learn how to tell authentic documents from spurious ones. (Hugh Nibley, “New Approaches to Book of Mormon Study” in CWHN 8, The Prophetic Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City and Provo, UT: Deseret Book and the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Study, 1989), 55–56.) And I have long been pointing out that the key questions for paradigm debate, according to Kuhn, are: Which paradigm is better? Which problems are most significant to have solved? These require not only comparison, but also recourse to criteria that are not themselves paradigm dependent. That is, puzzle definition and testability, accuracy of key predictions, comprehensiveness and coherence, fruitfulness, simplicity and aesthetics, and future promise. By those standards, the 19th century approach is superficial and falls into the very trap that Blass warns us of. And while compared to nothing, it may seem persuasive to some, compared to what LDS scholars have uncovered, is not more comprehensive and coherent, not at all fruitful, does not predict and account for the many details that emerge from the ancient text and context, and only seems simple to those who completely ignore the observations by able believing scholars, and falls far short of impressing me with a future promise comparable to what I find in my faith. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

Regarding the oft-quoted passage from Lucy Mack Smith, I took a closer look when I reviewed Ann Taves's book. She made a huge point about the difference between contemporary accounts and later accounts of the first vision, emphasizing that later accounts are not "not “real time access,” not a direct “window on the moment”. But that important criteria disappears when Taves offers the Lucy Smith quote as crucial. The Lucy Smith quote, aside from being a late account, rather than early and contemporary (not “real time access,” not a direct “window on the moment”), turns out to be notably odd and unique with respect to Joseph Smith, rather than well supported from a range of sources. Certainly much in Lucy’s biography is well supported, but let us recognize the anomaly here. Odd accounts do occur in history, yes, but the account raises questions that should be faced and mentioned before building one’s structure there. First of all, the Book of Mormon we have has no descriptions of people riding animals in over 500 pages that include several major migrations and 100 distinct wars. It provides no notably detailed descriptions of clothing (other than armor) and no detailed descriptions of the structure of later buildings. The most detail we get involves descriptions of fortifications with palisaded walls and ditches. Then there is the unasked question as to why — if Joseph Smith as a youth was capable of this kind of detailed, immersive, evening-filling recital on the everyday particulars of Book of Mormon peoples and culture — do we have no further record anywhere of his performing the same service as an adult? Perhaps the closest circumstance on this topic involves the Zelph story on Zion’s Camp, but in that case the notable differences in the details recorded by the different people who reported it, even those writing close to the event, should give pause to a person trying to build an interpretive foundation on an isolated, late, anomalous account related to far longer and complex narrative than the Zelph gossip.13 It bears mentioning that if Joseph Smith had been telling stories about the Book of Mormon peoples, animals, clothing, and culture, such stories should have had an obvious influence on Abner Cole’s 1830 parody version, the Book of Pukei, which “tells in mocking fashion about the sorts of things that Joseph’s neighbors expected to find in the Book of Mormon.”14 Yet the most notable thing about the Book of Pukei is how utterly different it is from the actual Book of Mormon.15 The book Joseph Smith produced was emphatically not what his neighbors expected. It is true the Book of Mormon does contain abundant details about “their religious worship” and their “modes of warfare,” but we have no other accounts of Joseph Smith’s filling anyone’s evening or afternoon with amusing or serious recitals on those topics either. Again, why not? This is not a frivolous question but one addressed to a foundation stone upon which Taves chooses to build. And it turns out that research into the sources for Lucy Mack Smith's history, reveals this: I also note the different way Joseph was viewed by skeptical neighbors and the family who shared his life. https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/playing-to-an-audience-a-review-of-revelatory-events/ Attempts to paint the Book of Mormon as no big deal, no great achievement for Joseph Smith, especially those that rely on the Lucy Smith quote are placing a great deal of weight on something that on close review does not support that weight. I mentioned the satirical Book of Pukei which does indicate the kind of thing the 1830 neighbors expected from Joseph Smith. Notice the mention of the Lost 10 Tribes, (which though a common speculation for the origins of indigenous Americans is not offered in the Book of Mormon) and the common stereotypical symbols of the tribes, blankets, moccasins, happy shores, bark canoes, and small pox, none of which appear in the Book of Mormon. https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/BOMP/id/237/rec/3 And it is worth considering Robert Rees's comparisons of Joseph Smith with his near contemporaries, Melville, Hawthorne, Whitman, Emerson, and Thoreau, all of whom had far more education, all of whom spent years writing "try works" beforehand to polish their themes and skills before producing the masterpieces that made their reputations. And Richard L. Anderson's detailed comparison of the Book of Mormon compared to a range of other modern gospels. I discuss Anderson in detail in the review of Taves. Despite his relevance, she did not mention his work. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

Good points. Translation must needs be And beyond this, we have the issue of pre-exilic Theology that Margaret Barker explores here: https://www.theway.org.uk/back/431Barker.pdf And in far more detail in The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God. The insight that she uses to begin her detailed exploration is this: Brant Gardner notably draws on Barker (and others such as Mark Smith) to account for the Book of Mormon picture. And as to what Joseph Smith saw during his first vision, the 1832 account begins with this: That is, two beings, Jesus being the Son in this context, which does not contradict Jesus being the Father of those humans who enter into covenantal relationships with him. Early in the Book of Mormon, an angel commends Nephi, saying "And blessed art thou, Nephi, because thou believest in the Son of the most high God (1 Nephi 11:6). So Jesus in the Book of Mormon is the son of El Elyon, God Most High, and is also Yahweh, the God of Israel, who is the Son of El Elyon, God Most High. In 3 Nephi: Matthew Brown had noticed the the 1832 account has this in the first paragraph: The mention of "testamony from on high" in 1832 alludes to the words of the Father in the 1838 account, And this <testamony from on high) in Joseph Smith's accounts is consistent with the behavior and words of the Father in 3 Nephi 11 "Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him." and in the New Testament at the Mount of Transfiguration, "While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him." Another aspect of the 1832 account that was pointed out by James Allen in the 1972 publication of the accounts in The Improvement Era is that in the 1832 history manuscript, the first appearance of the word "Lord" is an insert above the line. Just who inserted <Lord> there, is an issue, and what it actually implies, is an issue, as is the fact that the two being exactly resembled one another and that the title can be applied to more than one person if the title is appropriate. And it is a human record, with human imperfection involved in both the recording and in the interpretation. Just a few lines later we have: Which is also consistent with the notion that Jesus is both the God of the Old Testament and the Son of El Elyon, God Most High. While it is almost a cliche in critical circles to assert contradiction in Joseph's visionary accounts and the Book of Mormon, I think a very plausible and sensible response calls for careful reading of both in a broader context., rather than setting up stakes on a narrow focus and a desire to "make a man an offender for a word." FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

Yes, the document is designed to be used digitally. Indeed, I think it works best as a digital document, because you can drill down to references, and come back up to overviews, rather having to plough through all the references. I had spent decades working on it, unsuccessfully until I realized that I had the tools to do a digital version, which makes it work. At one point over a decade before, I submitted a version to the Ensign and had some communication back. But it was so unwieldy for publication then. FAIR has had an HTML version up, but in the last year or so, the first page broke, and for navigation purposes, that is important. They recently put the pdf back up. And that is good because phones have much more memory and screen size and resolution. I recently gave a copy to the missionaries in my ward and encouraged them to share it. One aspect that I ponder every time I see anyone discussing the question of true and false prophets, is that anyone could have done this, and no one had. And now with it having been out there now for many years, few pay attention at all. A few days ago, I ran across a Catholic Influencer video pod cast, claiming to test Joseph Smith as a a false prophet, based on the two Deuteronomy tests, which it happens, were also the weapons of choice during Jesus's ministry and trial, and which are, it happens the ones most qualified by examples in the Bible, and abused in practice in the Bible. It is easier to control the answer with just those. When I first published these at FAIR, an Evangelical apologist who used to come to this board, accused me of throwing the study in his face, as though it was an insult and in poor taste to consider these passages collectively, and promised to publish a response. Never happened. Not a whisper. And all of that is why the study also includes some discussions that try to set expectations about what these references can accomplish. They do not constitute proof texts that can coerce another's submission, but represent an invitation to study and ponder. To approach the question of true and false prophets with the capability of distinguishing figs from thistles and thorns from grapes, rather than just personal predilection and taste. FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

I occasionally report that I gathered Biblical references for 28 distinctive tests for true and false prophets in the Bible. I also studied 70 or so arguments given Biblical peoples to justify rejection of true prophets, and Bible passages that describe what a person should to do see truth. It happens that there is a correlation between the arguments given and the points of failure to follow the recommendations for seeing truth. I have realized that the reason that the tests are not well known and discussed is that it is easier to control the outcome if you apply subjective tests of your own devising. That is, rather than identifying prophets by their defining characteristics (figs versus thistles, grapes versus thorns), most people would rather do it terms of "It's not what I think, and not what I want." https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/prophettestsfv5.pdf FWIW Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

For much more revelation, than is generally commented upon, see these articles by Greg Smith. https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/passing-up-the-heavenly-gift-part-one-of-two/ and https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/passing-up-the-heavenly-gift-part-two-of-two/ Also, I recall a talk on this topic of ongoing revelation by Elder Packer, from 1974, which I recall from my mission. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1974/05/we-believe-all-that-god-has-revealed?lang=eng And of course, I was in Salt Lake City in July of 1978, when the revelation on the priesthood happened. And I have noticed just how very inspired President Nelson has been. Prepping the church for COVID was notably inspired. And besides there, I learned from the story of the death of Lazarus in John 11 that there are always people who can arbitrarily raise the bar and ask for more than the abundance they have. 37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA

For more on Women in the Book of Mormon, see this essay for which I noticed that: https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/msr/vol10/iss2/5/ Also this one on Instructional Wisdom in the Book of Mormon https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Fg1zuabUj5r156AhrlRlGAfUgBzdQpQL/view?pli=1 And this one by Daniel Peterson, Nephi and His Asherah. https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol9/iss2/4/ And this one by Val Larsen on Heavenly Mother: https://www.squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleLarsenHeavenlyMother.html FWIW, Kevin Christensen Canonsburg, PA