Can We Mormons Get Our Groove On?

[mormonnewb]

I think they should be made "more inviting" to those used to Gregorian Chant.  The hymnal is too Protestant for me.

 

Everything is relative.

 

Finally, a hard-liner!  I was beginning to think that I was on the wrong board.  Welcome to the party!

[Coreyb]

My friend and I always sing the hymns in sacrament loud and with a little bit of gospel flavor. I do it because it gets me more into the emotion and message of the hymn. She just does it cuz she thinks its funny. We get some weird looks but nobody says anything. Sometimes others join in.

[The Nehor]

I am going to be the fuddy duddy and say I see why music is so restricted. Much of the more "gospel" music promotes (in most people) a pleasant emotional reaction. This is easy to confuse with the Spirit. There is a place for it but it is not the kind of worship we want to emphasize in our block meetings. There we want to open a conduit to revelation. We want something external to hit the congregation.

Edited December 30, 2013 by The Nehor

[mormonnewb]

I am going to be the fuddy duddy and say I see why music is so restricted. Much of the more "gospel" music promotes (in most people) a pleasant emotional reaction. This is easy to confuse with the Spirit. There is a place for it but it is not the kind of worship we want to emphasize in our block meetings. There we want to open a conduit to revelation. We want something external to hit the congregation.

 

Why take any chances at all with an emotional reaction and just do away with the music altogether?  After all, the hymns can't be so bad that they fail to create emotion in anyone.  By eliminating all music whatsoever, we'll know that if "something hits," it will be external.

[Kenngo1969]

I used to have a cassette tape of the Mo-Tab from like 1960 singing "bringing in the sheaves" which is a barn storming religious song if I do say so myself, wish we could sing that every once in a while

There's always room for improvement/expansion, and I'm glad you like that particular selection, but one needn't go clear back to 1960 to find examples of things of this sort done by MoTab.  Listen to/watch Music and the Spoken Word every once in a while.  I think the Choir and those responsible for its musical selections have done a pretty good job avoiding falling into a Come, Come, Ye Saints rut.  (I love Come, Come, Ye Saints; just sayin' ... !)

[mercyngrace]

I am going to be the fuddy duddy and say I see why music is so restricted. Much of the more "gospel" music promotes (in most people) a pleasant emotional reaction. This is easy to confuse with the Spirit. There is a place for it but it is not the kind of worship we want to emphasize in our block meetings. There we want to open a conduit to revelation. We want something external to hit the congregation.

An emotional reaction?

 

Like that room silencing stillness after a faith promoting rumor is told?  Or the automatic eye moistening that follows yet another story about God's magpie-like interest in lost car keys? IMO, we confuse emotion with the Spirit already. No music required. 

 

Also in my experience, the Spirit moves us to emote. Christ felt compassion. Ammon praised to the point of sounding boastful. Moses spoke with power and Nephi was literally shocking. Yet we seem to have this cultural notion that tears and a quivering voice equal the Spirit and that reverence means silence rather than awe. I'd love to see joy replace some of the morose-looking worship I've endured in the church.

Edited December 30, 2013 by mercyngrace

[thatjimguy]

I remeber my baptism. I wanted to play a song from some LDS musical show I had found about the plan of salvation. It's a beautiful song. One of the bretheren afterward got up and talked about how the hymns should be the only thing picked because they are good enough.

 

So, is this whole thing doctrinal? Can other music be played?

[Traela]

I will probably never be called as the ward sacrament meeting hymn-picker-outer, because I have PLANS. Seasonally appropriate songs, especially for Easter (including a discussion with the organist that "That Easter Morn" must be played at the proper tempo). Coordinating with the third block leaders to learn unfamiliar hymns so as to be ready for Sacrament meeting singing. Closing each Sacrament meeting with one of the upbeat, joyful hymns.

[CV75]

I'm excited about the 2014 later start time for our three-hour block. It will allow me to sneak back to black church before sacrament to get my groove on. Specifically, I'm looking forward to clapping my hands and stomping my feet to some good old gospel music.

Now, don't get me wrong. Over the last few years, I've gotten used to my ward family mumbling through the hymns. I even mumble along myself sometimes.

Seriously, I understand how the hymns can be beautiful, but my question is whether anyone thinks there is room for other beautiful music as well? Would it be possible for us to move beyond just hymns or would that bring about the second great apostasy?

Cultural norms come and go--of course there is room for various forms of worshipful singing. But cultures have to be cultured over time and with much patience and charity so as to keep everyone united in the faith and not distracted by something as relatively superficial as tradition relative to testimony. I think this is one reason all the saints have the Gift of the Holy Ghost--in developing the Zion culture, we have to move ahead by the Spirit in order to do so in unison.

 

I think this goes for finding beauty in other ways we outwardly worship together through art, dress, speech, cuisine, group activities and events, etc.

[bluebell]

I would be happy with some new arrangements of hymns.

I know it's practically blasphemous to say but I can't stand I Believe In Christ and I Stand All Amazed as they are written in the hymn book. They are not pretty to listen to or inspiring to sing.

And they are not the only ones that need some refurbishing.

[Senator]

I would be happy with some new arrangements of hymns.

I know it's practically blasphemous to say but I can't stand I Believe In Christ and I Stand All Amazed as they are written in the hymn book. They are not pretty to listen to or inspiring to sing.

And they are not the only ones that need some refurbishing.

Oh, I have to agree with you!  The lyrics are beautiful, but scream for a more robust composition.  Something akin to "O, holy night" (which is the only christmas song that moves me)

[maklelan]

In my experience, most of the people I've observed singing hymns (note: those I've observed actually singing) sing just loud enough to not be heard above people singing around them. In my current ward it produces a dreary and unimaginably irritating drone that isn't worship in any sense of the word. There's been a lot of research published on the effects of worship music on congregations and communities, and not a word among it is dedicated to the emotionless suffering through hymns that are barely sung and even less internalized. If hymns are worship, they should at the very least animate our spirits, if not our bodies. I haven't experienced that in a long, long time. 

[boblloyd91]

I think it would be funny to start a traveling band that goes around wards, with the only instruments being a tuba, kazoo, and cymbals, after this band played their music, everyone would be more happy with the hymns.

[BlueDreams]

I am going to be the fuddy duddy and say I see why music is so restricted. Much of the more "gospel" music promotes (in most people) a pleasant emotional reaction. This is easy to confuse with the Spirit. There is a place for it but it is not the kind of worship we want to emphasize in our block meetings. There we want to open a conduit to revelation. We want something external to hit the congregation.

 

I think there's things that go a little overboard. I'm not big at thinking of church as a rock concert per se. But music is meant to move. It's a prayer unto God and the best prayers aren't rote, but deep profound expressions of our whole souls. That's one of the cool things about Gospel music, is this sense of deep expression. When the scriptures talk of making a joyful noise, a loud noise, I think it's ok to expect a joyful, loud noise from time to time. IMO, powerful music goes along with the verse that states "Let us glory, yea we will glory in the Lord; yea we will rejoice, for our joy is full; Yea we will praise our god forever. Behold who can glory too much in the Lord? Yea who can say too much of  his great power, and of his mercy, and of his long-suffering towards the children of men? Behold I say unto you, I cannot say the smallest part which I feel."

 

If the song isn't emotive in some way, something is really wrong with that song.

 

With luv,

BD

Edited December 30, 2013 by BlueDreams

[Buzzard]

Well, it could be worse. I'd rather put up with hymns that are a little on the somber side-in the case of the sacrament hymn, the whole point is to get us in a somber a reflective mood-than have to deal with a "Praise Band", complete with drums and electric guitar. 

Probably a matter of taste, since I was born and raised in the church, but I have been known to dial up a little MoTab on YouTube and just enjoy a few songs. I hope they do a few more of my favorites, though. The BYU choir recorded a decent "If You Could Hie to Kolob" a few years back, but there isn't a good rendition of  "O Ye Mountains High" to be found. 

[The Nehor]

Why take any chances at all with an emotional reaction and just do away with the music altogether? After all, the hymns can't be so bad that they fail to create emotion in anyone. By eliminating all music whatsoever, we'll know that if "something hits," it will be external.

I did not say the hymns were bad. I just think we should encourage the kind of worship we do to be genuine spiritual praise and not emotional pablum. We cannot of course guarantee it but I think it is a wise step.

An emotional reaction?

Like that room silencing stillness after a faith promoting rumor is told? Or the automatic eye moistening that follows yet another story about God's magpie-like interest in lost car keys? IMO, we confuse emotion with the Spirit already. No music required.

Also in my experience, the Spirit moves us to emote. Christ felt compassion. Alma praised to the point of sounding boastful. Moses spoke with power and Nephi was literally shocking. Yet we seem to have this cultural notion that tears and a quivering voice equal the Spirit and that reverence means silence rather than awe. I'd love to see joy replace some of the morose-looking worship I've endured in the church.

I agree we confuse emotion with the spirit already in other ways. I dislike it in those contexts too. I refuse to teach warm fuzzies and wish others would join me. If you cannot teach principles and doctrine it is usually wise not to teach.

I agree that there is a culture of confusing emotion and the spirit. I think the Brethren restrict music to avoid further errors in that direction. The spirit is heavily tied to emotions and they often accompany the Spirit but they are not the meat of the Spirit. I know the Brethren are concerned about emotional outpourings being confused with the Spirit. I understand their caution.

Oh, and it was Ammon who was called on almost boasting.

I agree with everyone saying most ward members are not "into singing hymns". I am probably one of them. I find hymns to be the dead wood of our service and if the meeting were structured around me (they aren't sadly) they would be cut entirely. I like music. Just not sitting in a pew listening to/singing music with nothing else happening.

Edited December 30, 2013 by The Nehor

[thesometimesaint]

I'm excited about the 2014 later start time for our three-hour block. It will allow me to sneak back to black church before sacrament to get my groove on. Specifically, I'm looking forward to clapping my hands and stomping my feet to some good old gospel music.

Now, don't get me wrong. Over the last few years, I've gotten used to my ward family mumbling through the hymns. I even mumble along myself sometimes.

Seriously, I understand how the hymns can be beautiful, but my question is whether anyone thinks there is room for other beautiful music as well? Would it be possible for us to move beyond just hymns or would that bring about the second great apostasy?

 

Sister Gladys Knight said it best. "Pick Up the Beat" There are few actual funeral dirges in our hymnals. We don't have to sing them ALL like they are.

[Tacenda]

Sister Gladys Knight said it best. "Pick Up the Beat" There are few actual funeral dirges in our hymnals. We don't have to sing them ALL like they are.

I agree and it's almost blasphemous when we don't sing like we're worshipping, and half asleep.  It's sad when you hear the choir director the loudest and you know he's urging the rest of us to sing out and strong.  I'm very guilty.  I don't want anyone to hear my voice, so I'd appreciate having the congregation 'belt it' so I and my off tune voice can too. 

Edited December 30, 2013 by Tacenda

[mercyngrace]

Oh, and it was Ammon who was called on almost boasting.

I agree with everyone saying most ward members are not "into singing hymns". I am probably one of them. I find hymns to be the dead wood of our service and if the meeting were structured around me (they aren't sadly) they would be cut entirely. I like music. Just not sitting in a pew listening to/singing music with nothing else happening.

 

At 6:23 am, it's a wonder, I even remembered the story... LOL. #notamorningperson #triedsleepinginwhenseminarywasoutandcouldn't

 

[Duncan]

I would be happy with some new arrangements of hymns.

I know it's practically blasphemous to say but I can't stand I Believe In Christ and I Stand All Amazed as they are written in the hymn book. They are not pretty to listen to or inspiring to sing.

And they are not the only ones that need some refurbishing.

 

 

I don't like Silent Night FWIW, it sounds like a song you sing when carrying a casket

[Duncan]

I did not say the hymns were bad. I just think we should encourage the kind of worship we do to be genuine spiritual praise and not emotional pablum. We cannot of course guarantee it but I think it is a wise step.

I agree we confuse emotion with the spirit already in other ways. I dislike it in those contexts too. I refuse to teach warm fuzzies and wish others would join me. If you cannot teach principles and doctrine it is usually wise not to teach.

I agree that there is a culture of confusing emotion and the spirit. I think the Brethren restrict music to avoid further errors in that direction. The spirit is heavily tied to emotions and they often accompany the Spirit but they are not the meat of the Spirit. I know the Brethren are concerned about emotional outpourings being confused with the Spirit. I understand their caution.

Oh, and it was Ammon who was called on almost boasting.

I agree with everyone saying most ward members are not "into singing hymns". I am probably one of them. I find hymns to be the dead wood of our service and if the meeting were structured around me (they aren't sadly) they would be cut entirely. I like music. Just not sitting in a pew listening to/singing music with nothing else happening.

 

 

I am in the same category, I would be fine with cutting out hymns altogether, shorten sacrament meeting to the sacrament and then two talks and then onto my fabtabulous gospel principles class

[Tacenda]

"I Know That My Redeemer Lives" is one of my favorites.  And, "I Stand All Amazed".  Now if "Amazing Grace" were available it would be on the list also.  And I'm with others on here, not too sure we need too much stimuli in order to feel the spirit.  Or it could be my conditioning doing the talking.  But will never forget when my Stake would have a Baptist Choir join all our ward choirs for a Christmas program and we all stood and sang "Go Tell It On the Mountain".  I felt the spirit incredibly strong that night.     

[mormonnewb]

I agree and it's almost blasphemous when we don't sing like we're worshipping, and half asleep.  It's sad when you hear the choir director the loudest and you know he's urging the rest of us to sing out and strong.  I'm very guilty.  I don't want anyone to hear my voice, so I'd appreciate having the congregation 'belt it' so I and my off tune voice can too.

That's what is really nice about hand clapping. It allows those of us who can't sing to "make a joyful noise" by clapping in time to the music.

[Tacenda]

That's what is really nice about hand clapping. It allows those of us who can't sing to "make a joyful noise" by clapping in time to the music.

That night, in honor of our guests, the Baptist choir, we were allowed to clap in the chapel.  I'll never forget it, it was so surreal to see my stake presidency up on the stand actually swaying and clapping, or like the OP says, getting their groove on.  Maybe that style of worshipping through music would eventually get old, but maybe not. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I'm excited about the 2014 later start time for our three-hour block. It will allow me to sneak back to black church before sacrament to get my groove on. Specifically, I'm looking forward to clapping my hands and stomping my feet to some good old gospel music.

Now, don't get me wrong. Over the last few years, I've gotten used to my ward family mumbling through the hymns. I even mumble along myself sometimes.

Seriously, I understand how the hymns can be beautiful, but my question is whether anyone thinks there is room for other beautiful music as well? Would it be possible for us to move beyond just hymns or would that bring about the second great apostasy?

No, when we join, our grove is removed.