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CV75

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  1. This early Israelite religion without an afterlife was an apostate version. Correctly practiced, this religion correctly conceptualized the immediate temporal blessings (children and descendants, crops, herds, fields, protection from enemies, etc.) as having a spiritual parallel, and a parallel that extended beyond this life. To these ancients, time was not linear; neither was their experience, nor the described events, taking place within it. The Book of Mormon gets into this whenever we find descriptions of the "manner of the Jews" -- God's commands were both temporal and spiritual to the righteous (rather, all things are spiritual in the long run), temporal only to the apostate. So, pre-mortality, mortality and post-mortality would all be on the same non-linear continuum (eternal round).
  2. You asked, “How can you disprove an assertion with another assertion?” I explained that the discussion is really over a clarification of doctrine, not proving it. Yet you keep trying to use other semantics and methods to test a religious doctrine (pre-mortality) you evidently cannot accept.
  3. The soul's attributes. Since the Church doesn't have an explicit doctrine on detecting the soul's effect on its own attributes (other than the resurrected glory and final judgement), you can't seem to address the doctrinal question you raise at all.
  4. Can anybody help me with this one: Definition of the term Dork when referring to a person
  5. Please describe the Church doctrine of detecting the soul's effect on its own attributes. It would have something to do with agency and consequences thereof.
  6. Applying our doctrine, the brain is part of the soul’s tabernacle of element (D&C 93:33) or material (Abraham 3:24-26). As such, it is an expressor of intelligence (D&C 88:11, 28-32). It is an inhibitor (a filter) in both directions when affected by mortal factors (D&C 93:39, using “tradition” broadly to denote physical/genetic as well as cultural inheritance). It is a processor, but so are our feet, for movement. Certain treatment of the feet (e.g., massage, acupuncture) can influence and drive brain activity. Spirit and element are integrated, sometimes functionally and sometimes difunctionally.
  7. The OP is really observing that, doctrinally, a premortal spirit's intelligence cannot be genetically determined, and its moral choices cannot be determined by hormones, which is correct because genes and hormones are not introduced until the subsequent mortal estate. I'm not seeing anyone assert that, doctrinally, spirit intelligence and morality are genetically and hormonally determined. If they did, the "refutation" is merely in the form of a clarification of doctrine. There is no need to prove that the premortal estate exists, or even a spirit for that matter, beyond the citation of doctrine.
  8. The Lord uses the term "expedient" in these kinds of "revelations du jour" in the D&C. The basic doctrines and principles stay the same.
  9. I'll suggest it was spirit-to-spirit concert (and in coordination) in concert with your brain. You would not have had it if you (a person, which is fundamentally a spirit -- D&C 93:33) were not in mortality with a brain. You would not have had it if God was not inseparably connected spirit and element in concert with the Holy ghost.
  10. And as long as they are connected with element, they become something else, a soul, with attributes that differ from intelligence, spirit and element alone. Neither filters the other; they are one.
  11. But the expression of this kind of spiritual intelligence in the flesh can be impeded by genes, hormones, injury, illness and countless other elements faced in the mortal world. The benefit of societies is for individuals and groups to mutually benefit from that expressed intelligence that is not impeded, or at least less impeded.
  12. I consider these terms to refer to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If someone uses them to refer to an offshoot, or by any other criteria than membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that will have to come out in the conversation, and I can go along with that for the sake of discussion. But best to refer to members of churches by their church's name. Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the only authentic Latter-Day Saint/Mormon church? Yes, if you insist on calling members of the Church by that name. Is there any Priesthood authority in different Latter-Day Saint/Mormon branches? No (if by "branches" you mean offshoots or other versions / corporations and not the formal organizational unit named the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Only the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the restored keys of priesthood authority upon the earth (explanation: our doctrine).
  13. My take on "heal relationships and foster understanding" in connection with the Church's support of such legislation refers to the Church expressing our equal regard for all God's children (e.g., equal protection under the law as it stands today after it has been settled through due process), and also our higher regard for what we believe to be God and His covenants, including marriage as we practice it. We can support those things that protect people who are LGBTQ -- the same protections all God's children should have (commerce, housing, employment, public safety, etc. as demonstrated in part in the Utah Compromise) -- and that also protect our religion as much as any other fundamental (or "special" right (such as commerce, housing, employment, public safety, etc.). Special protection is not special right.
  14. My take on "heal relationships and foster understanding" refers to things the Church is doing that shows we have equal regard for all God's children (e.g., equal protection under the law as it stands today vs. back in 1994) but also higher regard for what we believe to be God and His covenants, including marriage as we practice it. We can support those things that protect people who are LGBTQ -- the same protections all God's children should have (commerce, housing, employment, public safety, etc. as demonstrated in part in the Utah Compromise) -- and have a religion to support which all God's children have a right to agree with (or not), but in any case, expect protection as much as any other fundamental right (such as commerce, housing, employment, public safety, etc.).
  15. When I use it, it refers to those who profess to be Christian, no matter what they mean by that.
  16. For. Purposes. Of. Federal. Law. As. It. Stands. Today.
  17. Plus, the likely horrific mistakes and unintended negative consequences along the way, whether by intent or in ignorance or a combination of both.
  18. I think that technologies, like intelligence, apply to the kingdom suited for them and which uses them accordingly. As with anything else, the Lord will sort it out in the end in the kingdoms to follow. Mortal intellect and wisdom will be supplanted. I don't think the Lord holds how children get into this world against them but does hold the parents accountable. As people of the covenant, we consider and keep it in handling all aspects of life, even when we differ in judgement and debate over such considerations. The Church Handbook already addresses reproductive biotechnologies, and this topic seems similar in principle (advise to follow the Adam and Eve pattern, and by exception through prayer and counsel with priesthood leaders). From my observation, the Church stays at least 30 years ahead in projecting technological advances, not so much for the ethical ramifications but for the ramifications on the saints being challenged to keep their covenants (even more than the moral ramifications).
  19. Is anyone else having this error? I can access some threads through my profile/account but cannot see the list of General Discussion Topics.
  20. I agree, I think the underlying rationale for the support, at this stage, concerns protection of government protected, marriage-related material benefits under the law.
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