Senator

Perhaps. I have no way of knowing if her circle of friends and acquaintances are atypical. She did specifically mention the student wards she’s attended in making that determination.

Lovely

If that were the case BYU's student body count would be a fraction of what it is, according to my sophomore daughter currenty attending. I brought up what is being discussed in this very thread. She exclaimed, "Dad, everyone, evvverrryyyone is either drinking, smoking pot, having sEx or any combination the three." I of course said that that obviously isn't true, right??? She agreed, and then in all seriousness said that if she had to assign a number, she would put it at 80%. I still question the accuracy of the number. Nevertheless, her firsthand observations is pretty sobering.

Pleeease, no blitzes! I'm really triggered by new goal oriented missionary programs.

I don't know about this. I understand the reasoning, but I wonder if it is right. It brings to mind the anecdotal story ( and I don't know who to attribute it to) of a church leader who was known to say, I love the smell of cigarette smoke in the chapel! I take it mean, that instead of holding the attitude of inappropriateness or offence, he was delighted that such an individual was responding to the desire to be there, vices and all. Growing up there was such a man in our ward that attended sacrament service fairly often. As a kid I remember the strong smell of cigarette smoke on him and thinking to myself, "what is he doing here?" As far as I know, he never held any callings or made temple covenant. But he showed up. Is an all-or-nothing approach all there is? Is our message to this community, "Know we love you, we pray for you, we strive to treat every soul with fairness and dignity, but unfortunately, unless you make drastic changes to your behavior and lives, you simply cannot obtain the fulness of the Gospel through its sacraments and ordinances; therefore, we really have nothing to offer you within these walls." I don't know that that is right. Now as CB has mentioned, not many LGBQT couples even have a desire to attend LDS services and I fully understand that. But perhaps having some couples "showing up" is needed to help us mature our hearts; as that young Senator needed, in regards to the smoky man sitting next to him. And maybe showing up is all they can offer.

I get where you're coming from. I think we have to chalk this one (like many others) up to the dumb a$$ things polititans say. You know, like the previous POTUS did.

Yeah, something about his presentation that gave me the heebie jeebies.

I'm willing to put some money down that we will hear the phrase at least once, "for so persecuted they the prophets which where before"

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your participation in this thread. I greatly value the information you have contributed, which you have obviously spent a great deal of time parsing.

Incredible! You and nehor have absolutely no idea what my experiences and personal reaction have been. Yet, you claim some high moral authority to judge me and commence to shame me. Disgusting actually. You two have at it. I'm out.

Oh, stop it!

My lack of fret is the problem? Hard pass on that one.

In some/maybe many regards, yes. But I'm not interested in hashing it out here.

Sure! It's the "effect" in relation to the human reaction that is in question.

Seeing your vehemence on the topic, I seriously doubt we did!

I don't share that level of fret.

So, the little libertarian in me is raising its hand and saying, Folks we are awash in vaccine. Its readily available to anyone. So at this point, if you contract COVID and get seriously ill and possibly die.... its on you! By your own free will and choice. The rest of us are going to get on with life.