Divorce

[strappinglad]

I wonder, now that divorce is easier( except for the financial part and the custody part ) , if getting married shouldn't be much harder to do . I'm to the point now where I no longer give a wedding gift until the couple have survived 5 years. Might I suggest much more pre- marriage counseling and self analysis. Ya, I know, pie in the sky stuff !!!

[Raingirl]

Still bitter about last time huh?

Wow. Totally uncalled for.

And just further shows how clueless you are about marriage and divorce.

[The Nehor]

Wow. Totally uncalled for.

And just further shows how clueless you are about marriage and divorce.

No, I meant bitter about his last interaction with me.

Please stop trying to hurt my widdle feelings. I am very sensitive and if you keep it up I might cry.

[jcake]

Wow, I can't remember the last interaction, I'm not on here that much.  Refresh my memory?  I thought you  meant that I was bitter about my divorce, there has only been one, and I did have some bitter moments.  But, I have no intention of living a life of bitterness, so I've moved on.

[mfbukowski]

Pres. Kimball's brother and son were totally inactive, he shouldn't have been the Prophet according to this scripture, he couldn't control his own house! I had a Bishop that beat his kids to an inch of their lives, his 40 plus year old son still has scars on his back as I have seen them, I just wonder how far do we take that verse?

That's up to you.

[Rain]

I wonder, now that divorce is easier( except for the financial part and the custody part ) , if getting married shouldn't be much harder to do . I'm to the point now where I no longer give a wedding gift until the couple have survived 5 years. Might I suggest much more pre- marriage counseling and self analysis. Ya, I know, pie in the sky stuff !!!

I don't think that is the answer. With so many people living together now making getting married harder will just encourage people not to worry about marriage.

No, I think we long went past that point. We should have made getting married harder decades ago when people still cared enough to get married before living together. Maybe if that had happened the divorce rates wouldn't encourage people to never marry now.

[california boy]

Hello Nehor...

I do agree that no one is perfect... and when it comes to marriage and then divorce, more often than not it does take two to create the divorce...

But you also said there could be exceptions, but you had not seen one... well... there is my mom and biological dad... My mom absolutely adored my dad.  He was the proverbial love of her life.  But mom was a homebody, who loved taking care of her home and husband, and their two little girls.  Dad on the other hand was a good time kind of guy, which was okay during high school... and mom married him right out of high school.  Harry found he liked to go to the local bar and drink and play pool, and yak with his cronies... everyone loved ole Harry, including numerous other women in the bar who found him oh so much fun... mom could not put up with it, but did try to work things out on several occasions (I remember twice that my sis and I were sent away for up to several weeks while they tried to "work it out")  The final straw was when they were again separated and I was 4 and my sis 7, and my dad came to take us for the afternoon... I told of this experience here on the Board not long ago... an experience that plays in my mind like a movie... and I can see every scene as if it was yesterday and that was 70 years ago... the title of that movie is "The Night I Rode with Angels."  A night when my drunken dad could very well have killed himself and my sis and me... except for what can only be considered divine intervention and guardian angels.  And that is my last memory I have of him... mom filed for divorce.  I never  saw him again, but as I got older and realized just what had happend and his total disregard for his two little girls, it took years to be able to forgive him...

And Nehor, there are many, many stories of similar happenings that lead to divorce... some because of one spouse and some because of the other.  My dad broke my mom's heart so deeply that it was an ache for many years, even up until I was almost grown.  It happens... more often than you think...

 

GG

 

In no way do I want to judge or comment on the marriage of your parents.  But I do want you to consider another side.  I know of a marriage that is very similar to the one you described.  The former wife is a saint.  Really.  She is a wonderful woman.  I have never ever heard her say anything unkind about anyone.  Her former husband loved to party.  Everyone  thought he was the life of the party.  He had several affairs while they were married, but the wife stayed with him.  He finally divorced his wife and went on to several relationships, never marrying again.  So is this a one sided divorce?

 

Actually probably not.  What the wife doesn't like to talk about is that her former husband was always a party guy from the moment they met.  Her friends warned her not to marry him.  She liked to party a bit, but mostly did it because she like this guy.  After they married, she settled down, got religion and though never saying anything, always made her husband feel like she was better than him because she was religious after all.  The truth is, they both wanted completely different things in life.  He liked to drink before they got married.  And he liked to drink after he got married.  He liked to go out with the boys before they were married and he liked to go out with the boys after he was married.  He liked to flirt with women before he got married and he liked to flirt with women after he was married.  Do you get where this is going?  They wanted to live different lives entirely.  Eventually he figured he was not the person his wife wanted him to be and he never would be because he didn't want to be that kind of person.  

 

Her friends said she was a saint and did everything she could to keep their marriage together.  His friends said they were amazed how long he put up with her never wanting to do anything with him and never being involved in his life.

 

So was only the husband to blame?  Or is the wife also at fault from the very beginning.  She chose someone who was living a much different life than the husband she wanted.  A wise man said, "When you pick up a stick, you pick up the other end as well."

 

Just something to think about.

[rodheadlee]

I feel this kind of view can be very hurtful to divorced members trying to figure out their place in the church.  I am currently 4 years re-married after a divorce 5 years ago.  I am just now getting my bearings straight as far as not feeling terribly about my place in the church.  I am serving as the YM president in my ward. 

 

Knowing that I can't be called to certain callings makes me feel hurt as I did not initiate nor desire my divorce.  My wife did indeed carry on a year long hidden affair, then left me and the kids for that other person.  Was my marriage perfect?  Of course not.  Did I do anything worthy of that kind of betrayal or divorce even?  No.  Yet somehow my ex-wife seems to think so and spread her version of the story to her family and friends that are LDS (even though she no longer is active).  It hurts and angers me to think there are members out there who would not be willing to see that there are "One sided" divorces.  Through the whole ordeal, I remained worthy of a recommend and never violated my temple covenants to my wife.

 

SO why should there be a stain on a brother or sister in my position.  It is definitely one of my "on the shelf" issues with the church.

 

MP

I have just one question, since you brought it up. Did you forgive her and give her a chance to stay? or did you drive her away?

 

This is a NOYB question. This thread is getting too personal.

[rodheadlee]

Whenever someone who's never been married tries to expound upon marriage, it's pretty much like those people who have all those theories about raising children, who've never actually had kids.  

 

We all think we know a lot more about things that we've never experienced than we actually do.  

Actually as someone who has been through it, Nehor hit the nail right on the head.

[Garden Girl]

In no way do I want to judge or comment on the marriage of your parents.   

 

So was only the husband to blame?  Or is the wife also at fault from the very beginning.  She chose someone who was living a much different life than the husband she wanted.  A wise man said, "When you pick up a stick, you pick up the other end as well."

 

Just something to think about.

 

Oh, I see CB... it  was my mom's fault for marrying him in the first place... she should have known better...  Ha! 

My mom and dad were very young, right out of high school (that was the way it was back then... even in my day (1950's), many of the girls married their "high school sweethearts."  And ten years later a good many of them were divorced because many did not mature in the same way or value the same things. 

 

Harry was not a "party guy" in the sense that we see today or in the "Animal House" mentality.  He and mom used to have good times together, going down to the beach early in the morning with friends, cooking breakfast over an open fire, etc etc.  Even after they were married, mom said they used to have such fun together, camping... hiking.  It wasn't until Harry had to really settle down and start the grind of working full time, and accepting responsibility that the problems began.  When my sister and I came along, that did it and I guess he felt trapped... He could have had a very successful business as a cabinet maker... so talented... but he threw that away too...

 

Finally, when I was in my mid-twenties, I decided to make peace and on the way back from a visit to family with my husband, we passed through the Arizona town where he lived.  I told my husband to stop and let me see if I could find him in the directory... of course he had no phone... so I went on my way.  It was a few years later when he died that I got an obituary and letter from his friend that I found out that he was a "desert rat" who loved mining, etc..  His nickname was Cactus Jack, and he had a business card that listed him as a "mining consultant" even though he had no formal training... He would disappear into the desert for days... his hobby was searching for this lost gold mine... That was what he preferred to the responsibility of husband and father...

Yeah, you're right CB... at 18 and in love my mom should have seen that coming...

 

GG

Edited January 2, 2015 by Garden Girl

[mfbukowski]

Oh, I see CB... it  was my mom's fault for marrying him in the first place... she should have known better...  Ha! 

My mom and dad were very young, right out of high school (that was the way it was back then... even in my day (1950's), many of the girls married their "high school sweethearts."  And ten years later a good many of them were divorced because many did not mature in the same way or value the same things. 

 

Harry was not a "party guy" in the sense that we see today or in the "Animal House" mentality.  He and mom used to have good times together, going down to the beach early in the morning with friends, cooking breakfast over an open fire, etc etc.  Even after they were married, mom said they used to have such fun together, camping... hiking.  It wasn't until Harry had to really settle down and start the grind of working full time, and accepting responsibility that the problems began.  When my sister and I came along, that did it and I guess he felt trapped... He could have had a very successful business as a cabinet maker... so talented... but he threw that away too...

 

Finally, when I was in my mid-twenties, I decided to make peace and on the way back from a visit to family with my husband, we passed through the Arizona town where he lived.  I told my husband to stop and let me see if I could find him in the directory... of course he had no phone... so I went on my way.  It was a few years later when he died that I got an obituary and letter from his friend that I found out that he was a "desert rat" who loved mining, etc..  His nickname was Cactus Jack, and he had a business card that listed him as a "mining consultant" even though he had no formal training... He would disappear into the desert for days... his hobby was searching for this lost gold mine... That was what he preferred to the responsibility of husband and father...

Yeah, you're right CB... at 18 and in love my mom should have seen that coming...

 

GG

That was definitely a low blow you did not deserve.

Edited for snark

Edited January 3, 2015 by mfbukowski

[Maestrophil]

I have just one question, since you brought it up. Did you forgive her and give her a chance to stay? or did you drive her away?

 

This is a NOYB question. This thread is getting too personal.

 

I don't mind answereing.  I begged her to stay and told her I could work on forgiving her completely and work on trying to improve whatever it was she felt made her stray.  She replied that she had found her "soul mate" and besides, I would 'expect' her to be Mormon.  I told her I would only 'expect' her to not sleep with other men. 

 

She told me she had been lying for a few years abou having a testimony and had fallen out of love with me years ago.  Don't know if those feelings led to the affair or if they came as a result of the affair to justify things.  But either way, it was a shock to me. 

 

And Nehor - I agree that divorce is different thatn marriage.  A marriage always has room for two people to be responsible and work things out.  But I assure you, in my case, there was nothing I could do.  I am just grateful that the Lord has blessed me to have custody of the children and to have found a wonderful wife who has helped heal my heart.

 

MP

[Maestrophil]

That was definitely a low blow you did not deserve.

Edited for snark

I agree.

 

GG you are correct.  Blaming your mom for what happened is very much victim blaming.  I believe some people are just selfish people who leave victims in their wake.  Would you blame a Bundy victim for having found him charming and agreeing to a date? 

 

MP

[Garden Girl]

 

And Nehor - I agree that divorce is different thatn marriage.  A marriage always has room for two people to be responsible and work things out.  But I assure you, in my case, there was nothing I could do.  I am just grateful that the Lord has blessed me to have custody of the children and to have found a wonderful wife who has helped heal my heart.

 

MP

 

Maestrophil...

I am so thankful things have worked out for you, and that you have your children with you.  After my mom's divorce (in a time when divorced women were looked down on), my mom found the Church through the missionaries (bless them) and also participated in wonderful activities like Camp Fire Girls.  My sis and I came first in all she did... finally, she met a really good man through a friend in Camp Fire... they married and he became our "Dad."  About three years into their marriage, he converted to the Church and a year later we were sealed in the SLC temple as an eternal family.  He and my mom stayed faithful all their lives... their last calling was as ordinance workers in the Los Ang temple.  Like your wife, that good man came into my mom's life and helped heal her heart.

 

GG

[Maestrophil]

Maestrophil...

I am so thankful things have worked out for you, and that you have your children with you.  After my mom's divorce (in a time when divorced women were looked down on), my mom found the Church through the missionaries (bless them) and also participated in wonderful activities like Camp Fire Girls.  My sis and I came first in all she did... finally, she met a really good man through a friend in Camp Fire... they married and he became our "Dad."  About three years into their marriage, he converted to the Church and a year later we were sealed in the SLC temple as an eternal family.  He and my mom stayed faithful all their lives... their last calling was as ordinance workers in the Los Ang temple.  Like your wife, that good man came into my mom's life and helped heal her heart.

 

GG

That is a wonderful ending for a faithful sister!  Thanks for sharing your story!

[Duncan]

The interesting thing is is that a divorced man can get remarried in this life or the next and if he and his new spouse continue faithful they can be exalted but he can't serve as a Bishop, God but not a Bishop. Not that anyone in their right mind would want to be a Bishop but those folks do exist i'm sure

[rodheadlee]

I don't mind answereing.  I begged her to stay and told her I could work on forgiving her completely and work on trying to improve whatever it was she felt made her stray.  She replied that she had found her "soul mate" and besides, I would 'expect' her to be Mormon.  I told her I would only 'expect' her to not sleep with other men. 

 

She told me she had been lying for a few years abou having a testimony and had fallen out of love with me years ago.  Don't know if those feelings led to the affair or if they came as a result of the affair to justify things.  But either way, it was a shock to me. 

 

And Nehor - I agree that divorce is different thatn marriage.  A marriage always has room for two people to be responsible and work things out.  But I assure you, in my case, there was nothing I could do.  I am just grateful that the Lord has blessed me to have custody of the children and to have found a wonderful wife who has helped heal my heart.

 

MP

Thanks for answering. My main reason for asking is I hate to see people think these situations are terminal to the relationship. Through the wonderful Atonement of Jesus Christ the relationship can carry on. I just hope that everyone who faces this gives forgiveness a chance to work in their lives. Jesus Christ can remove the painful burden of disloyalty by a spouse.

 

edited to add; In reference to nehor's post I was totally complicit in my situation. If I had been doing what the Lord wanted me to be doing these things probably would not have happened.

Edited January 4, 2015 by rodheadlee

[Teancum]

Has any one ever seen a divorced man called as a Bishop ? Some one told me that was not done .Is this true?

Yes. But it is rare.

[Teancum]

Yes we had a divorced and remarried bishop. But apparently you can't be a divorcee and be an ordinance worker in the temple.

Incorrect. You can be divorced and be an ordinance worker. You however cannot be a temple sealer.