Latter end of the latter-days?

[Sky]

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

I've always been leery of speculating of the exact timing of the Second Coming (an actual prophesied physical future event), but with statements like this, it's hard not to wonder.  After all, the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Should this statement be considered a prophecy, or simply a random statement by a church leader, but not necessarily an official doctrinal pronouncement?  I mean, supposedly they have been saying stuff off the cuff like this for years.

But...if the latter days started in about 1820 (at the time of the First Vision), and curently we are only 3 years away from the year 2020, perhaps we are not that far away from the Second Coming after all!  

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Sky said:

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

I've always been leery of speculating of the exact timing of the Second Coming (an actual prophesied physical future event), but with statements like this, it's hard not to wonder.  After all, the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Should this statement be considered a prophecy, or simply a random statement by a church leader, but not necessarily an official doctrinal pronouncement?  I mean, supposedly they have been saying stuff off the cuff like this for years.

But...if the latter days started in about 1820 (at the time of the First Vision), and curently we are only 3 years away from the year 2020, perhaps we are not that far away from the Second Coming after all!  

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

Kind of makes your head hurt right?

And that some LDS don't feel the need to take care of the earth as much, since the world will be ending soon anyway. I personally know of a few. 

 

[stemelbow]

7 minutes ago, Sky said:

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

I've always been leery of speculating of the exact timing of the Second Coming (an actual prophesied physical future event), but with statements like this, it's hard not to wonder.  After all, the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Should this statement be considered a prophecy, or simply a random statement by a church leader, but not necessarily an official doctrinal pronouncement?  I mean, supposedly they have been saying stuff off the cuff like this for years.

But...if the latter days started in about 1820 (at the time of the First Vision), and curently we are only 3 years away from the year 2020, perhaps we are not that far away from the Second Coming after all!  

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

I think we should concern ourselves with such things for sure.  The Church is just the Church. God in my mind works with people through all sorts of means--the Church just happens to be one of them.  If the Church was meant to be influential int he world, it'd be far more than it is.  But it isn't, so my guess is God's Church, as we like to see ourselves, is really only a very small part of what God looks to and favors.  Indeed, it might be said that members in the Church are far less blessed by God than others as we like to pretend we see things so much clearer than everyone else, but we simply don't know that. 

Or, as I like to postulate, the Church needs to change drastically from what it is.  It needs to morph into a Church that stretches its loving arms around the globe embracing any semblance of someone who wants to be a part of that which is good.  At our current position, that won't happen for many years down the road, though. 

I tend to think our often stated views of the Church will fill the earth and the Church will remain God's chosen only Church until the coming of Christ to be like the views of those who were looking forward to the Messiah in ancient times and then missed that coming, somehow, not realizing they were misdirected. 

[mapman]

I don't agree with this line of thinking. It seems more Evangelical than Mormon. Joseph Smith taught towards the end of his life that there would be non-Mormons in the kingdom of God and in the Millennium.  We are supposed to work to establish Zion, not wait for God to come and fix things that we could have. I also doubt that Pres. Nelson has special knowledge of when the Second Coming will be.

Edited February 8, 2017 by mapman

[Garden Girl]

1 hour ago, mapman said:

I don't agree with this line of thinking. It seems more Evangelical than Mormon. Joseph Smith taught towards the end of his life that there would be non-Mormons in the kingdom of God and in the Millennium.  We are supposed to work to establish Zion, not wait for God to come and fix things that we could have. I also doubt that Pres. Nelson has special knowledge of when the Second Coming will be.

Hello mapman"...

I too doubt that Pres Nelson has special knowledge of when the Second Coming will be... nor do I believe he was trying to make a specific prediction... rather, he expressed something that I firmly believe... that we are in the "last" of the last days... my belief being based on what I read in the scriptures and looking around at events taking place in our world and society today.  And, according to scriptures, there are still events that will/need to take place prior to the Second Coming  and who knows how long this will take... even the angels don't know...  but it doesn't take a genius to make the connection.

GG

 

[Gray]

2 hours ago, Sky said:

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  

The answer to that is always yes. No matter what you believe about end times, that belief should never lead to complacency in doing good and trying to make the world a better place. Otherwise the whole eschaton idea becomes a major liability as a doctrine. 

[emeliza]

2 hours ago, Sky said:

 

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

Ack, yes, we need to take care of the earth and our "neighbors".  We were commanded to.  I so dislike the thought process that Christ will come and clean it up.  It is such a "drink and be merry" attitude.  It isn't someone else's problem, it is ours.

[pogi]

4 hours ago, Sky said:

Should this statement be considered a prophecy

I tend to agree with him, but I have never received a witness of it.  I am afraid that the opinions on this board do not bear the same weight as personal revelation and spiritual confirmation.  Spiritual confirmation is the only valid measure of prophecy.

[CV75]

5 hours ago, Sky said:

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

I would say yes, not because that is what we do (as the saying goes), but because that is what (who) we are or have become. We are the leaven, and the Lord will set His foot to destroy only the knowingly wicked, which I would estimate, opposition-wise, are about as few as the saints (1 Nephi 14:12). While the "great whore" will certainly impose untold death and destruction upon all kinds of people, I think a good deal of the world's population will be spared one way or another at His second coming and have a shot at life in the Millennium without the far-reaching impediments of the "great whore" that currently dominate.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Sky said:

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

This is always been a subducttive topic, and as with most Faith's who love the speculate on such matters. Often time the leaders of all Faith's speak of it to inspire all to prepare for the second coming. Also members love to hear of these things, causing the scripture indeed to be true (too paraphrase) "they heap unto themselves teachers, having itching ears . The problem with almost endless sermons that are speculation, based upon belief, is that (again from scripture), has a side effect, "...their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed". This is a topic that should be addressed with care, lest even good people grow weary and feel like our leaders are crying wolf to often. 

Anyway, my take on the issue, the Savior warned, "that today is the day to prepare for salvation", which means itmattersnot when he comes, what matters is...are we ready. For some the second coming or the day of judgement can come in a moment, as it did for a dear friend just a few weeks ago with no warning. We only have today, and no promise of tomorrow. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Bill "Papa" Lee

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Sky said:

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

Yes, we should try to improve things. Mitigating suffering is always good even if that relief is not permanent.

They will get as bad as they will get. The institution is ready.

I am pretty sure living my religion perfectly in this fallen body is impossible. The purpose of the Law is to turn us to Christ, not to save. Trying to live the Law leads to realizing the impossibility of doing so and turning to Christ or to despair or (if you are a moron) the belief that you are living it perfectly when you are not.

Things will be okay. As things get worse God's power on Earth will grow stronger to compensate. We will see signs and wonders, the saints will gain great power, and we will win.

That being said I have no idea if this whole wretched Earth is almost ready for a new stage. Jacob was telling his people that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand over 2,500 years ago. Even if it does not come for us death will and that is its own deliverance/punishment.

[Michael Sanders]

I recognize that even the prophets and apostles declared that the end was soon at hand in their respective dispensations of labor (Paul comes to mind).  And even the men of the restoration believed that God would soon rapt up the scene in their day.  And while we may not know the day nor the hour, we are called to be discerning of the times we live in - given it is fairly easy to see doom and gloom on the world's scene in about every generation.  But if we look to the prophecies, particularly the allegory of Zenos in Jacob - we see the fulfillment of many of those descriptions in the early restoration movement - particularly in the work of Joseph.  The Lord of the Vineyard declares that it is the "last time" that I will nourish my vineyard (Jacob 5:62-72) for the "end is nigh at hand".  Now I recognize a phrase like "nigh at hand" can mean a long period of time, but when coupled with latter day revelation like "For behold, the field is white already to harvest; and it is the eleventh hour, and the last time that I shall call laborers into my vineyard" D&C 33:3

This was in 1830.  What does the "eleventh hour" refer to?

 

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Michael Sanders said:

I recognize that even the prophets and apostles declared that the end was soon at hand in their respective dispensations of labor (Paul comes to mind).  And even the men of the restoration believed that God would soon rapt up the scene in their day.  And while we may not know the day nor the hour, we are called to be discerning of the times we live in - given it is fairly easy to see doom and gloom on the world's scene in about every generation.  But if we look to the prophecies, particularly the allegory of Zenos in Jacob - we see the fulfillment of many of those descriptions in the early restoration movement - particularly in the work of Joseph.  The Lord of the Vineyard declares that it is the "last time" that I will nourish my vineyard (Jacob 5:62-72) for the "end is nigh at hand".  Now I recognize a phrase like "nigh at hand" can mean a long period of time, but when coupled with latter day revelation like "For behold, the field is white already to harvest; and it is the eleventh hour, and the last time that I shall call laborers into my vineyard" D&C 33:3

This was in 1830.  What does the "eleventh hour" refer to?

 

It referes to the 11th hour. Now we're likely at 11:30 or a little later.

[rodheadlee]

10 hours ago, Sky said:

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

I've always been leery of speculating of the exact timing of the Second Coming (an actual prophesied physical future event), but with statements like this, it's hard not to wonder.  After all, the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Should this statement be considered a prophecy, or simply a random statement by a church leader, but not necessarily an official doctrinal pronouncement?  I mean, supposedly they have been saying stuff off the cuff like this for years.

But...if the latter days started in about 1820 (at the time of the First Vision), and curently we are only 3 years away from the year 2020, perhaps we are not that far away from the Second Coming after all!  

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

Yep we got 5 years.

 

[RevTestament]

11 hours ago, Sky said:

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

I've always been leery of speculating of the exact timing of the Second Coming (an actual prophesied physical future event), but with statements like this, it's hard not to wonder.  After all, the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Should this statement be considered a prophecy, or simply a random statement by a church leader, but not necessarily an official doctrinal pronouncement?  I mean, supposedly they have been saying stuff off the cuff like this for years.

But...if the latter days started in about 1820 (at the time of the First Vision), and curently we are only 3 years away from the year 2020, perhaps we are not that far away from the Second Coming after all!  

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

Yes, we should not give up. We are still obliged to spread the gospel as best we can, so that as many that seek the truth can find it. That doesn't change when trouble hits the fan. 

As to being the latter end of the latter days I guess that depends upon your perspective. The morning of the first resurrection is about to end, so from that perspective we are at the latter end, but I believe the latter days reach through the millennium which in my estimation is another thousand years, and yet that is still not the end of the world for the battle of Gog and Magog must still happen.  So although some of the millennium will be peaceful, the world will be a very different place then - fewer people and no more nations. Don't fret about these troubles if you are faithful and true to the restored gospel. Be grateful that you have had an opportunity to serve God in truth. 

34 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Yep we got 5 years.

 

If you only knew how close to the truth you are here

[Five Solas]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Yep we got 5 years.

No idea how to reconcile your excellent taste in music--with pretty much everything else you have to say on the forum, rodheadlee.  Honestly, this kinda makes my brain hurt.  Can you help me?

--Erik

PS.  I'm going to ignore the math of 1972 + 5 in light of the larger question

;0)

[strappinglad]

Well, we need look no further than the ability of a few to destroy a big chunk of society. It has only been 70 years since the world acquired a way to irradiate/irradicate itself. Global warming/global cooling whatever enters into the mix. As a lad there were about 4 billion people now there are over 7 billion, with all that means for the environment . Much of human population is now in megacities and can be removed from systems for survival by a power outage caused by a minor computer glitch. Society has never been so interconnected AND so vulnerable. We live in the best of times and in the worst of times at the same time. I am told 1 billion people now lack enough to eat daily. Maybe it has always been so, and there are a lot of events that must take place before the great sign of the Second Coming. I'm not looking for property in Missouri just yet.

[rodheadlee]

8 hours ago, Five Solas said:

No idea how to reconcile your excellent taste in music--with pretty much everything else you have to say on the forum, rodheadlee.  Honestly, this kinda makes my brain hurt.  Can you help me?

--Erik

PS.  I'm going to ignore the math of 1972 + 5 in light of the larger question

;0)

I am a really poor communicator. It's rare if I get my idea across the way it was intended. But I am a TBM even if I have no TR. I will say you made me laugh this morning.

[rodheadlee]

9 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Yes, we should not give up. We are still obliged to spread the gospel as best we can, so that as many that seek the truth can find it. That doesn't change when trouble hits the fan. 

As to being the latter end of the latter days I guess that depends upon your perspective. The morning of the first resurrection is about to end, so from that perspective we are at the latter end, but I believe the latter days reach through the millennium which in my estimation is another thousand years, and yet that is still not the end of the world for the battle of Gog and Magog must still happen.  So although some of the millennium will be peaceful, the world will be a very different place then - fewer people and no more nations. Don't fret about these troubles if you are faithful and true to the restored gospel. Be grateful that you have had an opportunity to serve God in truth. 

If you only knew how close to the truth you are here

I wasn't kidding.

[JLHPROF]

On Wednesday, February 08, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Sky said:

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things?

In my opinion when Christ returns he is going to want to know what we have done with the stewardship we were given.  (Think parable of the talents etc).

But are things going to continue to get worse?  Of course they are.  Probably a lot worse.  Which will probably generate a huge increase in faith among the "1%" and probably increase the flow of those who flee from Babylon.
Then Christ will have a people to come to, and yes, he will still want to see what we did to improve our stewardship.  Just because your neighbors trash their yard doesn't mean we get to.

[Nofear]

35 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

But are things going to continue to get worse?  Of course they are.  Probably a lot worse.

Unfortunately, a lot of people's hearts are failing now... and things are just getting started.

"And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth." (D&C 45:26)

[JLHPROF]

8 minutes ago, Nofear said:

"And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth." (D&C 45:26)

President Packer gave a talk that has made many say that "Christ delayeth his coming"

• Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

I'll go with Joseph Smith on this one:

• WORDS OF JOSEPH SMITH 180-181
  Remarks on the comeing of the Son of Man by Joseph Smith the Prophet. Made in Nauvoo

  Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations?
  Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour.
  But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know
  the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets

  Consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass;
  again we find Paul 1st of Thesslonians 5th Chapter expressly points out the characters who shall not know the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh for says he it will come upon them as the theif or unawares. Who are they they are the children of darkness or night.
  But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares.

Edited February 9, 2017 by JLHPROF

[CV75]

Latter end of the ladder days

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

President Packer gave a talk that has made many say that "Christ delayeth his coming"

• Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so! You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren.

Not sure if President Packer intended this but that could also be read as getting to do things right in the Millenium. Sneaky apostle........

[cinepro]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:12 AM, Sky said:

I heard a talk recently by President Russell M. Nelson saying that we are in the "latter end of the latter-days."  I can't locate the source at the moment, but I believe it was from his Youth Fireside address in January of this year or last year.  

I've always been leery of speculating of the exact timing of the Second Coming (an actual prophesied physical future event), but with statements like this, it's hard not to wonder.  After all, the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Should this statement be considered a prophecy, or simply a random statement by a church leader, but not necessarily an official doctrinal pronouncement?  I mean, supposedly they have been saying stuff off the cuff like this for years.

But...if the latter days started in about 1820 (at the time of the First Vision), and curently we are only 3 years away from the year 2020, perhaps we are not that far away from the Second Coming after all!  

My bigger questions, though, are should we really bother to try to improve humanity and current world conditions if things are only going to get worse before Christ comes again?  Exactly how bad will things get?  Is the Church really where it needs to be right now in order for this to happen?  Less than 1% of the world's population is LDS, and even less than that are active LDS. How many of us really live our religion perfectly and can honestly say we are ready for this? There probably won't be any large LDS growth for the foreseeable future as far as numbers are concerned.  What will become of everything and everbody else?  Or should I even concern myself with such things? 

My policy on this is that if a prophecy/speculation/observation is not specific enough for Scott Lloyd to start a countdown clock, I don't worry about it.