Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by pogi

  1. I haven’t read through the whole thread yet, has it already been identified that the son is lgbtq? Apparently, I was right: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna58499
  2. I don’t disagree. It is disturbing on many levels. But I think you are missing my point. Clearly they guy (on drugs or not) was intolerant of the idea of his son being gay. How traumatic would that be to have a father like this (gay or straight), but especially if his son is gay? It very well could explain the motive behind the shooting - which could have been based on self-loathing and hating people who remind him of what he is on the inside. If I am right, this was the volcano that finally erupted after a life-time of self repression and loathing out of a desire to be accepted by his father.
  3. Wow! That video of his father is really disgusting. “Your son is accused of shooting 5 people in a gay bar.” “Yeah, well, my son is not gay, I can tell you that!” “I’m republican, I’m LDS, we don’t do gay!” While watching that I had the distinct thought come to mind - “his son is gay”. That would explain a lot. His response is really disturbing.
  4. “Cast your burden upon the Lord, and he will sustain you”. Psalms 55:22
  5. If you have a hard time with left hand fingering, then the square neck dobro may be just the instrument for you. There are actually a couple types of dobros (resophonic guitars), a round neck that requires fretting and a square neck that is played on your lap with a slide (lap-slide guitar). The square neck strings are actually like an inch above the fretboard so you couldn’t fret/finger it if you wanted. All left hand technique is with the slide. Right hand uses finger picks. It is tuned to open G so all major chords are fairly straight forward and easy, minor chords, etc require a little more technique. If you like the sound, you have to check out Jerry Douglass. He is the master! His opening song in this set is a pretty incredible rendition of “Hey Joe” by Jimmy Hendricks.
  6. @provoman You also ignored this and didn't respond, so I will repost it here hoping for a response: Once again, the question was, can you honestly answer that the preventive measures taken were inappropriate?
  7. You'll have to show me where. For your convenience, here is what you said: Again, these numbers don't (and can't) take into account what might have been. Just because numbers are higher in these cities, does not necessarily mean that the laws aren't reducing gun violence. The numbers don't lie, but properly understanding what they mean is a whole other story. Again, I am not asking for more laws. I am simply stating that red-flag laws work to reduce gun violence. I posted evidence that while these cities have these laws, they ARE NOT being implemented. That might help explain the numbers somewhat don't ya think? If the red-flag laws are not being implemented, how could one possibly conclude that they don't reduce gun violence when implemented? That is not a fair conclusion. I have no clue what you mean. Are you suggesting that new laws should target cops for not implementing red-flag laws? That is even more extreme than my position, but ok. Personally, I think better education would be a less extreme measure. Many cops are not even aware of the law as there was not proper education when they were rolled out in many cases. I am guessing you didn't read the article.
  8. By "the restoration" are you referring to the restoration of priesthood authority to Joseph Smith, or are you referring to restorationsit movements in general? I hope the later, otherwise I am really confused. If the former, please explain who you are and what strange splinter group you belong to.
  9. First, I was talking specifically about red-flag laws. Second, you are not considering all the data (how are these laws being implemented, for example). and third, you are making the same mistake in interpreting numbers that I already responded to. This looks like the same play book from Covid. These numbers don't show what might have been. Having the law is one thing, implementing it is another all together. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/red-flag-laws-states-implementation/ Clear evidence of failure of implementation: The same failure of implementation can be attributed to the Colorado shooting. Take a look at the following real-life scenario and try to tell me with a straight face that the action taken was a mistake:
  10. Ya, I don't think any graph could be a perfect representation, but it gets my point across that we are a square Christian peg that some are trying to fit into a circle Christian hole. We are not related via priesthood.
  11. Sure, we share some beliefs with protestants and culturally we do spring from them. We are not an exact replica of the first century church, but if we think of this graph in terms of origins of priesthood authority, then we cannot correctly be tied to or branch from Protestantism of Catholicism in any way.
  12. Having highlighted our vast differences, I also want to highlight that the heart matters in the end. We can be of the same heart. It is the heart that will bring about the necessary adoption. I firmly believe that though we may be different species and Order, etc. we can still be of the same heart and that same heart will lead us to the same place in the end, when all the filters have been lifted from our mind and our eyes.
  13. You will not find any disagreement from any Latter-day Saint on that point. This proves we are of at least the same Family, or Order, or perhaps, Kingdom that we call "Christianity", but we are very different on the level of Genus, which is where the discomfort for you, I think, is coming from. We are not that alike in many regards, but we will all be saved by the same blood of Christ and all claim him as our Savior. I agree with the Greek approach with distinguishing between different kinds of...kinds. I actually think that looking at it from that perspective might help, and perhaps you are not taking the division of kinds far enough. To me, dogs and people are different in kind on one level, but also the same in kind on another level. Christianity, is a much deeper level of kind where dogs and squirles can exist. In the taxonomy of biology there are many different layers of "kind" for example. If you think of religion in general, and Christianity specifically, like biological taxonomy, that might help to grasp how we see ourselves and how to properly frame us in the larger taxonomy of Christianity. I would categorize "Species" as specific sects within Christianity. We can then divide "kind" further by Genus. Within Catholicism specifically, the Genus divisions would probably be Assyrian, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic etc., on the level of Family all of those would just be classified as Catholic. Other Families groups might include Protestant and Restorationism. Way, way, way back on the level of Order, or perhaps further divisions could take us back to Class, we can all be called Christian. When thought of in that perspective being Christian is like being a mammal. To help visualize that, we can be as different as the kangaroo is from the whale and still be of the same Class called Christian. It seems that you are trying to make us all fit into the same Family (Canidae, for example - of which there are thousands of different kinds), but we are not Canidae at all. This graph might help: I think you are making the same problem that this graph is making. It wants to link Restorationsim and Protestantism in the same family branch. Restorationists will simply never view themselves that way though. The next graph is a little better in that it shows a connection to the Early Christian Church, but it doesn't really take us seriously and instead uses a non-solid line there, with the solid line connected to Protestantism. Until people see us as we see ourselves with a solid line connected to the Early Christian church with ZERO connection or relation to Protestantism or Catholicism except through our common Christian roots at the level of Order or Class, then we will continue to be misunderstood and attempts to make us the same on other levels will be frustrated. It is as if you are trying to make rabbits be accepted as dogs, but they are not the same at that level, yet they are both mammals. Perhaps the biggest difference and source of frustration/confusion is here: For you, Class is the qualifier for exaltation. For us the word of God states that Species very much matters to God if we are to be ONE with him in an exalted state of divinity. We are talking about becoming God, after all. We have to be of the same kind on every level of being for that to be possible. This isn’t your general Protestant “salvation”. We are talking about becoming Just. Like. God. Unity of of priesthood order is one of those things necessary to do that.
  14. Do you not believe that Catholics and Evangelicals want to be distinguished from each other? You have made it an important point many times to distinguish yourself and Evangelicals in general from Fundamentalists, etc. So, I am confused as to why you say that there are not different kinds of Christians. I think your concern is not that we want to distinguish ourselves from other Christians, but that we claim to be the only Christians who hold authority of the priesthood to baptize, etc. That is a whole separate issue all together. Last I checked Catholics don't accept our baptism, so we are not the only ones who have exclusive criteria for priesthood authority and it shouldn't be that foreign of an idea to you within Christianity. Navidad, I agree that from your Christian paradigm it doesn't make much sense, and you are right, it won't go over well with many non-LDS Christians - especially given their heaven/hell dichotomy and taken out of context of our entire belief system. But for many Christians, what we offer does make sense when presented in context of our doctrines and with the confirmation of the Holy Spirit. To be frank, Navidad, unless you convert and become a member missionary for our church, I don't think your efforts will go over well and will not make much sense to you or anyone else. You are trying to fit us into your box of Christianity. We don't belong there. It is a futile effort that will only result in confusion and frustration to keep trying to fit a circle Christian peg into a square Christian hole. One major problem that you keep running into is that you seem to want to equate Christian salvation with Mormon exaltation. Those are NOT even remotely close to being equivalent ideas. Our understanding of premortal existence and post-mortal existence make any attempt to make any equivalencies impossible. We have been taught not to judge (that is in reference to the state of a soul after death), so we do our best and let God be the judge and don't pretend to "know". Navidad, with a proper grasp of our belief in the role of prophets and modern revelation, a proper reading of the Doctrine and Covenants in relation to the restoration of the priesthood authority and order in the church will better help you understand that we are the way we are because we believe these are God's words and that he restored the priesthood under a specific order.
  15. To distinguish oneself from Christians of other traditions is not to say that we don't want to be seen as Christians.
  16. Red flag laws = cops come and take deadly weapons from people with known "red-flag" risks . The red flags are based on what they have done. It is common practice in our judicial system to be more stringent with greater measures of restrictive caution with people who are deemed to be a greater risk to society based on their histories - and therefore what they might do in the future. Because red flag laws are not "bullet proof" (pardon the pun) you can't dismiss them as being ineffective because of isolated incidents. The difficult part about assessing efficacy is that there is no way to show data for what might have been... You are just assuming it didn't work, but there very well may be 'would be' victims alive and well today because of it. If the risk factors are well known and documented, then reason can only lead one to conclude that red-flag laws will be preventative. I can understand other arguments, but to conclude that "it doesn't work" cannot be supported. Again, you can't use Boulder as proof that it doesn't work. That data is too limited. There is plenty of precedent with even more extreme measures to be taken to protect life. Being a risk to self or others is enough for someone to be detained in emergency hospitalization against their will. Are you going to argue that this hasn't saved lives because people still commit suicide?
  17. Because polygamists are the bastions of not relying on government welfare, right? Are you implying that republicans are therefore pro-polygamy? I am pretty sure, that of the two, the left is far more open to non-traditional marriages. I remember the right using anti-polygamy scare tactics to fight against the slippery slope of gay marriage. If anti-polygamy = pro-poverty, as you seem to conclude, then the right is as pro-poverty as the left, and I would argue far more so in this case. You know, it wouldn’t have been that hard to make this topic about polygamy and poverty non-political. Thread closing in 3…2…
  18. I would counter that being "Mormon" alone wont bring you back into God's presence either, according to LDS belief. If you define "heaven" as the kingdoms of glory post-final-judgment, then yes, Christianity can and does lead one to heaven. In fact, the only people found in hell (outer-darkness) will be Mormons.
  19. The first problem with your conclusion is the assumption that identical twins are indeed genetically identical. They are not. Once the cells divide in the womb, they each experience genetic divergence via separate and distinct random genetic mutations. Thus, at birth, identical twins are not genetically identical at all. For this reason, some can be more genetically prone to certain diseases than their "identical" twins, for example. This is documented fact. If these physical differences can be explained by genetics (rather than spirit), why not personality differences as well? Also, you are being way over simplistic in only considering the genome isolated from its environment and the effects of epigenetics, as the only explanatory factor for differences in behavior. Even minute differences in environment and exposure can snowball over time to create significant differences in genetic expression fairly quickly. This has been proven in tests on identical twin mice.
  20. Let's break this down to his individual claims. You say "of course" we hold a monopoly on the following principles. Please support your claim for each of the following: 1) Righteousness. 2) Religious truth 3) Divine favor 4) Inspiration 5) Salvation D&C 1:30 does not say that we are the only righteous, the only church with religious truth, the only people who are divinely favored, the only church with inspiration, or the only church that leads to salvation. I think you misinterpret that verse.
  21. I'm excited to get to play it. There is nothing more hauntingly beautiful than a hymn on dobro.
  22. You are diverting attention from the facts (that you wrongly frame as "opinion" - I'm still trying to figure that one out!) and flat out admit that you are sending me on a wild goose hunt instead? I find that "telling". No thanks! You would also be searching in vain to find any Church leaders suggesting otherwise. I "challenge" you, Scott to prove me wrong My original point remains unscathed, despite your goose hunt. If you have anything of substance to offer/argue, please feel free.
  23. Our religious pedigree and relation is not really a matter of “opinion”. It is a matter of factual history. I have no doubt whatsoever that our church leadership consider them to be of the same Latter-day Saint restorationist family tree. I cannot see them arguing that they can’t call themselves “Latter-day Saints (or however they want to stylize it)”. We don’t own that title exclusively. See graph and other info about relative denominations here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_denominations_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement
  • Create New...