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Everything posted by pogi

  1. When Sagan talks about getting on a path to finding truth, I’d like him to define truth. As I said in another thread, science isn’t the only approach to epistemological knowledge. Too few people appreciate a more esoteric approach. Mysticism is at the core of our faith and of Christianity (“He who has ears to hear...”), and is a perfectly viable approach to happiness and well-being - which is truth. Scientific truths are great and useful, but I have found the esoteric and ineffable truths to be more delicious to the taste.
  2. No one is forcing you to respond.
  3. This is so absurd! Art, and personal opinion depends upon conscious minds too. Therefore there must be right or wrong answers in regard to art or subjective experience. Lame logic. I’m done. He is asserting that a anything that comes from the mind has objectively right or wrong answers. Or is he just singling our morality for some unknown and inexplicable reason. Apparently this is the end to subjectivity as we know it. Im done.
  4. Even with it mostly being college aged kids, it will show up as sure as the sun rises in the east. College aged kids may not be as high risk for death, but they are known to fill the hospitals. People have a misconception that morbidity cannot be severe for young people. I can’t tell you how many 20 year olds I see ending up in the ER.
  5. I have never personally seen a double infection. That is a scary thought. Very good advice about the vaccine though. I hope it is an effective one this year.
  6. These numbers reflect the low case counts we were seeing just a few weeks ago. Brace yourself! The tides are turning. Record high numbers today with 911 cases. Up from around 200-300 cases a couple weeks ago. Mostly college aged kids. High school kids are the next highest age group. Hospital rates will shoot up in a couple/few weeks time. It will shoot up even higher once these college kids start spreading it to their more vulnerable family and community members. There will be a little lag there. 1 to 2 months and death rates are going to spike again. School is open, college i
  7. In case you haven’t noticed I have said “soft science aka applied science“. Many suggest that the applied sciences are soft sciences (not pure). That is how I have been using the terms this whole time. You must not be reading my links. Examples of hard/pure sciences: Chemistry, physics, biology, etc. Examples of applied/soft sciences: medicine, psychology, engineering, criminology, etc.
  8. I think we have just witnessed a miracle. We agree on something! I will celebrate it. Unfortunately, we disagree that morality is described in that way. Morality is _____ is not a falsifiable statement. All swans are white is an objective statement. It can be falsified. It is either objectively true or false. Morality is ____ in NOT an objective statement. It cannot be falsified. It is nether objectively true or false. It is a matter of opinion. The end. I sometimes wonder if you comprehend a word I write or if you are just intentionally misconstruing them.
  9. No, scientific objectivity requires that the description of something (like gravity or energy or "morality") must by objectively arrived at through observation/testing and is falsifiable. It is not based on community values or subjective intuition. A statement must be falsifiable if it to be considered scientifically objective. For example, "the statement "all swans are white" is falsifiable. It is something science can prove to be objectively true or false. Fact or fiction. On the other hand, "morality is _____" is not equally falsifiable nor can it be objectively measured, and
  10. I don't object to the comparison to physical health. I never have. There are differences (as I have pointed out), but they are both grounded in subjectivity and philosophy. The fact that you keep bringing it up shows you don't understand me. Go back and re-read everything I said. My point is that health is just as subjective. Health is whatever we say it is. It has no objective foundation either. One version of physical health says that it is the "absence of illness or injury" (probably the oldest and most popular). That definition encompasses one philosophical approach to health.
  11. Ok, then instead of making empty assertions (which is all I have heard for 14 pages), show me the scientifically objective evidence which shows how you came to the conclusion that your version of morality is the only right one. It shouldn't be this hard! If it is objective, then any scientist should be able to falsify your results and come to the exact same objective conclusion. That is what makes it objective, after all.
  12. If that is all you were trying to say, I don't have any objection.
  13. It means that you have no "objective reason" to suggest, or know, that your version of morality is the objectively right one. Or that there can objectively be only one version. There is therefore no objective foundation for morality. Before you start comparing it to physical health again, can we at least agree on this point?
  14. Exactly! You are not thinking this through to the unavoidable conclusion. All we can objectively conclude is that preferences exist! We can't objectively conclude that those preferences are right or wrong. The preferences themselves are, as you say, "subjective"! Just like morals, values, food preferences, etc. I have no idea what this means. No, it wouldn't be scientifically objective. All the objective data tells us is that induced labor increases the risk of surgery. Period. Nothing more. We have no objective data beyond that point. That is the objective end
  15. Scientific inquiry is only one approach to epistemological knowledge. Contradiction of knowledge and absence of it are two different things, by the way.
  16. Science once didn't know about cells. They thought organs were fundamental pieces. We later learned about cells, then molecules and atoms, then other even smaller particles... Science doesn't know what science doesn't know.
  17. That would give balance, but it would also imply that you didn't like your own comment. It is a real conundrum!
  18. Here you go: It appears that every faith has used it that way, including Jews. An example from the Bible:
  19. Exactly. What is scientifically objective about that? Remember that scientific objectivity cannot be influenced by personal or community beliefs, perspectives, and values. Even if it is a universal value or belief, it can't influence the outcome, or it is not objective.
  20. That is why contact tracers are important. Whenever we put people on quarantine we always educate them about this. We tell them that if they want to test, they should wait 5 to 7 days after exposure before testing to allow viral load to develop and avoid false negatives. Often, we reach the person after they have already tested negative, we explain to them why it is still necessary to quarantine despite the negative test. Even though they tested negative yesterday, doesn't mean they are negative today, or will be tomorrow.
  21. The other problem with the study is that the lock downs were also about keeping the healthcare system from being overrun and not as much about total death counts. They don't address that at all, and kind of miss the point of the lock-downs. Yes, they may have delayed the inevitable death, but that was largely the point to delay and spread out cases over time so they don't all happen at once and overwhelm the system.
  22. Great, you discovered an algorithm to make the world a place where they treat everyone else how they themselves want to be treated. So what? All you can objectively conclude is that your algorithm is objectively effective at helping people to treat everyone else how they want to be treated. That is all you can objectively conclude. My algorithm was objectively effective too. So what? You can't objectively conclude that such a thing is morally good or bad. That requires an objective description of morality, which you haven't provided. You simply provided the assertion that morality i
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