Will Christ return in your lifetime?

[Theosis]

16 hours ago, Thinking said:

On Sunday my wife was listening to Sunday school online and the teacher said that she believed that she would still be alive when Christ returned. She made it clear that she meant that He would return before she left this mortal probation. Some of my Sunday School teachers from my youth testified that we (the youth) would be alive to see the second coming. I'm not sure what the attraction is to making claims like this since we are told that nobody knows (Matthew 24:36).

I personally haven't heard anybody make a claim like this in a long time, so I thought it was almost weird that this teacher would make that claim.

This is cringe worthy. It's a lot like how we used to hear in Sunday School about being the "chosen generation" of youth. Seems all the youth hear that. More Mormon useful folklore. 

 

[JLHPROF]

8 hours ago, strappinglad said:

What shall we do with John the Beloved ?

Does he have authority to perform ordinances?  Build temples? Run the Church?  Ordain new Apostles? Administer the ordinances of salvation and exaltation to mortal man?

Not his current mission as a translated being.  Although he was one of the three who opened the new dispensation by restoring the Apostleship to Joseph.

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I find these responses fascinating from "latter-day saints".  Perhaps the Church should drop that part of the name.  It's members don't seem to think they're anywhere near the end.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.  Can you clarify? 

Should the saints during BY's day not have been known as "latter-day saints" because Christ didn't come during their lifetimes?  It seems like there is a lot of precedent for acknowledging that someone is living in the "latter days" without having to assume that Christ is coming back while they are alive.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Theosis said:

This is cringe worthy. It's a lot like how we used to hear in Sunday School about being the "chosen generation" of youth. Seems all the youth hear that. More Mormon useful folklore. 

 

I have no problem with the counsel that the youth are a chosen generation and reserved for the last days and that probably becomes more true with each generation (my grandparents told me they were taught similar things) but playing it up too highly or using it to judge ‘the end’ is ‘looking beyond the mark’.

[Kenngo1969]

I'm in a daze.  Formerly, also, I was in a daze, so perhaps I could call that "former daze," and I could call the daze that I'm in now a "latter daze," to differentiate it from my "former daze."   So, yes, I do believe this is the "latter daze."

Sincerely yours,

Dazed and Confused

 

[strappinglad]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Does he have authority to perform ordinances? 

I suppose we can quibble over the word " authority ". I suggest he still has the authority and keys but his calling may not require their use except in special circumstances , eg. with Joseph . 

[strappinglad]

58 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm in a daze.  Formerly, also, I was in a daze, so perhaps I could call that "former daze," and I could call the daze that I'm in now a "latter daze," to differentiate it from my "former daze."   So, yes, I do believe this is the "latter daze."

I used to be a " Latter-day saint" , I still am , but I used to be also. 10 points if you get the reference. 

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I find these responses fascinating from "latter-day saints".  Perhaps the Church should drop that part of the name.  It's members don't seem to think they're anywhere near the end.

I am not convinced that believing the end is immediately imminent is evidence of faith.

[Amulek]

Quote

Will Christ return in your lifetime?

I hope so.

Heck, I hope He comes today (though after I've had time to repent for saying 'heck,' of course).

A thousand years in Zion is the kind of shelter-in-place order that I can really get behind. 

 

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.  Can you clarify? 

Should the saints during BY's day not have been known as "latter-day saints" because Christ didn't come during their lifetimes?  It seems like there is a lot of precedent for acknowledging that someone is living in the "latter days" without having to assume that Christ is coming back while they are alive.

 

24 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am not convinced that believing the end is immediately imminent is evidence of faith.

The end can mean a lot of different events.  I'm not predicting armageddon etc.

But D&C 77 says 7000 from Adam to the end, or 6000 from Adam till the start of the Millennium.  The Millennium has Christ ruling and Satan bound.  Allowing for calendar errors and unclear events like the half hour of silence (which may be right now) I don't see how any believing saint can think the Millennium won't be here within a couple of decades at most.

Is D&C 77 not God's word on the subject?

[strappinglad]

I once told my spouse that I would have the flooring replaced by Christmas... I didn't specify WHICH Christmas.

Similarly the Lord's definition of " soon " as in " I am coming soon ", appears to be a bit different than mine. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

 

The end can mean a lot of different events.  I'm not predicting armageddon etc.

But D&C 77 says 7000 from Adam to the end, or 6000 from Adam till the start of the Millennium.  The Millennium has Christ ruling and Satan bound.  Allowing for calendar errors and unclear events like the half hour of silence (which may be right now) I don't see how any believing saint can think the Millennium won't be here within a couple of decades at most.

Is D&C 77 not God's word on the subject?

 I don't doubt God's word.  Our ability to always understand and interpret God's word correctly, I doubt.  

How do we know when Adam fell and the earth started it's temporal clock?  If we take these verses literally (and maybe we aren't meant to I don't know), then how do we know when the clock started running exactly?  Wouldn't we need to know that before we could predict when it will run out?

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 How do we know when Adam fell and the earth started it's temporal clock?  If we take these verses literally (and maybe we aren't meant to I don't know), then how do we know when the clock started running exactly?  Wouldn't we need to know that before we could predict when it will run out?

Are you suggesting it's been less than 6000 years since Adam fell?

Edited February 23, 2021 by JLHPROF

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Are you suggesting it's been less than 6000 years since Adam fell?

I'm saying outright that I have no idea when Adam fell.  

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm saying outright that I have no idea when Adam fell.  

Well the Bible seems to.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

Well the Bible seems to.

The Bible's timeline (as in actual time) isn't exactly reliable  

 

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Well the Bible seems to.

So date does the bible give for when Adam fell?

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

The Bible's timeline (as in actual time) isn't exactly reliable  

 

As I said, it seems like a lot of members no longer see themselves as being in the last pre-millennial days.  They don't believe Adam was around 6000 years ago, Noah around 5000 years ago, etc.

In short, they don't believe scriptures like D&C 77 or D&C 84 or anything else that provides a God given timeline of the Earth.

They are instead saying Christ delayeth his coming for years to come. 

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

So date does the bible give for when Adam fell?

Best estimate given the timeline to Moses and the Egyptian period was 4400 BC, give or take a few decades.  And following that we have a timeline.

So the question is does the earth have a temporal (post fall) lifespan of 7000 years or not?

[strappinglad]

22 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

They are instead saying Christ delayeth his coming for years to come. 

That behavior has also been a prophecy.

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Best estimate given the timeline to Moses and the Egyptian period was 4400 BC, give or take a few decades.  And following that we have a timeline.

So the question is does the earth have a temporal (post fall) lifespan of 7000 years or not?

Considering that the best estimates are still based on a lot of secondhand information and conjecture, plus information that was already thousands of years old when it was finally compiled, it doesn't make sense to me to say that the bible knows the date that Adam fell. 

But does the earth have a temporal lifespan of 7000 years?  I don't know that either.  I don't know if that answer was meant to be taken literally (especially when answering questions about the Book of Revelation, which a lot of times isn't literal) or if it even means earth years.  I don't even know if temporal means post fall or if that's an interpretation we've gone with that wasn't meant to be used.

It might be.  It also might not be and I'm fine either way.   

[bluebell]

29 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

As I said, it seems like a lot of members no longer see themselves as being in the last pre-millennial days.  They don't believe Adam was around 6000 years ago, Noah around 5000 years ago, etc.

In short, they don't believe scriptures like D&C 77 or D&C 84 or anything else that provides a God given timeline of the Earth.

They are instead saying Christ delayeth his coming for years to come. 

I guess I just really don't see the point in making this an issue of faithfulness.

I knew a guy--he's dead now, has been for a while--who was convinced that the Savior would come in his lifetime.  He did all the math.  He scoured the bible for dates and information so that he could find the "God-given timeline".  He believed all the words of the scriptures in a literal sense when it came to the timing of the second coming, and while he did not claim to know a time or day, he felt certain that it would be (at that time) in the next decade.  

That decade came and went and it devastated him.  He was in some despair about it, doubting God's pronouncements and the Savior's promises rather than doubt his own interpretations and calculations on it.  And as far as I know he died without ever really coming to any kind of resolution on it (though he stayed active in the church and seemed to come through the despair phase alright).

What was the point off all of that angst for him?  Of being so certain that he knew, and being annoyed with everyone who didn't see it the same way?  

Christ will come when He comes.  We have been tasked with being ready.  We don't have to know when it will be to do that so why argue or judge others about it.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

As I said, it seems like a lot of members no longer see themselves as being in the last pre-millennial days.  They don't believe Adam was around 6000 years ago, Noah around 5000 years ago, etc.

In short, they don't believe scriptures like D&C 77 or D&C 84 or anything else that provides a God given timeline of the Earth.

They are instead saying Christ delayeth his coming for years to come. 

That's because some basic science obliterates those dates. Humans didn't start walking the earth 6000 years ago. That is pretty widely accepted, right? 

The age of the earth has already forced many within the Christian tradition (LDS included) largely abandon the literal 6 day for creation in favor of "creative periods" etc. which is much more reasonable and defensible.

When certain, major claims are falsified it raises questions about the reliability of other claims as well. Seems pretty natural.

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's because some basic science obliterates those dates. Humans didn't start walking the earth 6000 years ago. That is pretty widely accepted, right? 

The age of the earth has already forced many within the Christian tradition (LDS included) largely abandon the literal 6 day for creation in favor of "creative periods" etc. which is much more reasonable and defensible.

When certain, major claims are falsified it raises questions about the reliability of other claims as well. Seems pretty natural.

Considering our belief that this planet was not created from out of nothing but from already existing materials, there is no good reason to think the creation couldn't have been accomplished in only 6 rotations of the planet.

The age of the materials in or on the planet are totally irrelevant to how long it took to create things with those materials or to bring materials and different kinds of living beings to this planet.

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

So date does the bible give for when Adam fell?

Yoda, you are?    (Sorry!  Couldn't resist!  Carry on!)