Is the Temple card worth it?

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, senjustindiaz said:

Last I check the term "with God as my witness" is something we all know.  

Why do you hate correct grammar? What did it do to you to make you want to torture it so much?

[longview]

24 minutes ago, senjustindiaz said:

Last I check the term "with God as my witness" is something we all know.  

Don't forget God requires 2 or 3 or more witnesses.  Eternal Justice demands it.  Holy Ghost cannot ratify without witnesses.  It is for our conviction and testimony and edification and achieving unity.

[JLHPROF]

39 minutes ago, senjustindiaz said:

Last I check the term "with God as my witness" is something we all know.  

But not scriptural.  Unless you think Scarlett O'Hara is a prophetess.
And it's "as God is my witness".

Do you actually have any scriptural backing for why a member would have such dislike for the endowment?
Or just unfounded distate?
 

 

Edited January 15, 2017 by JLHPROF

[thesometimesaint]

You can learn everything that is in the Endowment in 2-3 sessions. It takes a lifetime to learn the important stuff.

[Sleeper Cell]

19 hours ago, senjustindiaz said:

Been a member for 3 years, don't see the value in the temple

 

18 hours ago, senjustindiaz said:

Not trolling, just trying to start a discussion, I don't see the value in a dress rehearsal and a movie. 

 

16 hours ago, senjustindiaz said:

Its more of a bragging thing in my opinion really

 

15 hours ago, senjustindiaz said:

Its seems you taking this a bit to heart, its just a discussion. 

You demean that which you know is very sacred to others by calling it a “dress rehearsal and a movie“ and  “more of a bragging thing.”  Then you complain that those who consider it sacred “are  taking this a bit to heart?”   Are you serious?  

 Its just a discussion?  There are ways to discuss and even strongly disagree with what others hold sacred without being disrespectful of their beliefs. 

[MorningStar]

3 hours ago, senjustindiaz said:

Last I check the term "with God as my witness" is something we all know.  

"With God as my witness, I am baptized! With God as my witness, I am married!"

[rpn]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Please don't be dishonest by suggesting that it is normal for LDS people to go around bragging that they have a temple recommend. I have never seen that happen in my entire life.

Well, as strange as the OPers reactions may seem, I have seen members try to get out of tickets by flashing a TR, so it does happen some.

[emeliza]

32 minutes ago, rpn said:

Well, as strange as the OPers reactions may seem, I have seen members try to get out of tickets by flashing a TR, so it does happen some.

My husband didn't use it to try to get out of a ticket, but he totally used it when he had an outstanding ticket (like over 10 years old) in Utah and got pulled over.  He didn't know he had the ticket so he used his TR as proof that he was an honest person so that the police officer would allow him to drive down and pay the ticket right than instead of arresting him or something along those lines.  I made fun of him for that for years. 

[The Nehor]

58 minutes ago, rpn said:

Well, as strange as the OPers reactions may seem, I have seen members try to get out of tickets by flashing a TR, so it does happen some.

That sounds more like being ridiculous rather then bragging.

24 minutes ago, emeliza said:

My husband didn't use it to try to get out of a ticket, but he totally used it when he had an outstanding ticket (like over 10 years old) in Utah and got pulled over.  He didn't know he had the ticket so he used his TR as proof that he was an honest person so that the police officer would allow him to drive down and pay the ticket right than instead of arresting him or something along those lines.  I made fun of him for that for years. 

Did it work?

[emeliza]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Did it work?

Yep, she followed him to the ATM and to the building he had to pay the way huge outstanding ticket.  He didn't get a new ticket, he didn't get arrested and his car wasn't impounded.

He might not have had his driver's license either.  He was constantly losing it so that might have also been part of why he used his TR.  I don't remember now.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Do you actually have any scriptural backing for why a member would have such dislike for the endowment?
Or just unfounded distate?

Don't forget that this person has a "temple card" which is definitely a real term that is in general use in the English-speaking LDS world.

[Garden Girl]

23 hours ago, senjustindiaz said:

Yes, I have been, I have a current recommend. You can do all those things without the temple, it's a beautiful place, but viewing a film and passing through the veil into a room where you are supposed to ask all the "questions". Yet there is no one to answer any of them is quite daunting.

"The Kingdom of God is inside/within you (and all about you), not in buildings/mansions of wood and stone. (When I am gone) Split a piece of wood and I am there, lift the/a stone and you will find me."

Your posts show your misunderstanding of the temple... its purpose, blessings, and covenants... so much so that I can't even begin to respond.  I don't know where you live, but your statement above (which  I highlighted) is absolutely not true.  There is always a temple worker in the Celestial Room ... and throughout the temple... that you can ask questions... or they will be more than happy to call one of the temple presidency to answer/discuss deeper (or any) questions if you desire.

GG 

[Robert F. Smith]

On 1/14/2017 at 5:13 PM, senjustindiaz said:

Not trolling, just trying to start a discussion, I don't see the value in a dress rehearsal and a movie. 

That's what the LDS temple rituals seem to be, and the movie version only came along when technology made that possible.  One can still participate in the live stage version at the Salt Lake City and Manti temples.  However, as with any formal esoteric or exoteric rite (including inauguration of a president), these are not "dress rehearsals" but the actual eucharist, coronation, baptism, lustration, censing, marriage, sealing, puja, and endowments with power.  On the Jewish Day of Atonement, when the senior Kohen raises his hands and blesses the people, it is not a rehearsal, but the real thing.

So, perhaps you are not asking the correct question:  Does any of that have cosmic, divine importance?  Are there real consequences?  Or are we only going through the motions?

[Tacenda]

15 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

Your posts show your misunderstanding of the temple... its purpose, blessings, and covenants... so much so that I can't even begin to respond.  I don't know where you live, but your statement above (which  I highlighted) is absolutely not true.  There is always a temple worker in the Celestial Room ... and throughout the temple... that you can ask questions... or they will be more than happy to call one of the temple presidency to answer/discuss deeper (or any) questions if you desire.

GG 

GG, no one ever told me I was allowed to approach a temple worker with questions. Did I miss it somewhere?

[emeliza]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

GG, no one ever told me I was allowed to approach a temple worker with questions. Did I miss it somewhere?

What did you think they were there for if not to help you?  Just curious?  Not saying that as rude which it might read?

I have never discussed stuff in the celestial room, but I have in other areas of the temple with other patrons or workers when I had questions, especially when I went thru the first few times.

[Tacenda]

38 minutes ago, emeliza said:

What did you think they were there for if not to help you?  Just curious?  Not saying that as rude which it might read?

I have never discussed stuff in the celestial room, but I have in other areas of the temple with other patrons or workers when I had questions, especially when I went thru the first few times.

They are there to direct, give names, help you find a dressing room locker. But I never knew I could ask questions about what took place in the endowment or initiatory or any other area of temple worship I did. I guess I'm a numbnut sometimes.

[thesometimesaint]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

They are there to direct, give names, help you find a dressing room locker. But I never knew I could ask questions about what took place in the endowment or initiatory or any other area of temple worship I did. I guess I'm a numbnut sometimes.

It's a common enough misunderstanding. But yes you can ask any question you like, all the way up to the Temple President.

[emeliza]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

They are there to direct, give names, help you find a dressing room locker. But I never knew I could ask questions about what took place in the endowment or initiatory or any other area of temple worship I did. I guess I'm a numbnut sometimes.

Gotcha.  You knew they were there to help, just not the extent.  I

[Calm]

I think I was told I could ask when I first went through.  But given the newness and often what is happening that day, I wouldn't expect people to remember much of anything like that.

I also was told in a fireside held at the temple for a ward temple night.  

Very easy to miss those kinds of opportunities, so it doesn't surprise me that people don't know, though most I have suggested asking questions in the temple already know they can, but for various reasons feel too uncomfortable to ask.

[Garden Girl]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

They are there to direct, give names, help you find a dressing room locker. But I never knew I could ask questions about what took place in the endowment or initiatory or any other area of temple worship I did. I guess I'm a numbnut sometimes.

 

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

GG, no one ever told me I was allowed to approach a temple worker with questions. Did I miss it somewhere?

You are correct that workers are there to help make your visit as pleasant as possible by helping with directions, names, lockers etc etc.  But they are also there to help you with any questions... they will answer or call the temple matron... or, a member of the presidency (at least one of whom is always on duty, including to be available for such instances of answering questions).

I want to refer you to two of my favorite articles (I may have told you about them previously) that I highly recommend that you read...

1)  Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Worship... by John A. Tvedtnes (still available online I believe, originally published by FAIR, 1999).

2)  The Hand As A Cup In Ancient Temple Worship... by Dr. Lynn M. Hilton (from the 30th Annual Symposium on the Archaeology of the Scriptures - 9/26/1981).

If you can't find either of these, send me a PM...

GG

[Garden Girl]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think I was told I could ask when I first went through.  But given the newness and often what is happening that day, I wouldn't expect people to remember much of anything like that.

I also was told in a fireside held at the temple for a ward temple night.  

Very easy to miss those kinds of opportunities, so it doesn't surprise me that people don't know, though most I have suggested asking questions in the temple already know they can, but for various reasons feel too uncomfortable to ask.

Calm... 

Temple workers attend an hour's training session before their scheduled shift.  My shift was on Friday mornings... so every Friday I received training on various things, geared specifically on how we could help the patrons have the best temple experience possible.  This included, for instance, how to answer questions, or call the temple matron/presidency... or how to handle special needs for patrons in wheelchairs or amputees, emergency situations,  etc etc.  We tried to anticipate and train for how to respond to special scenarios so that we were prepared to respond as needed with compassion and dignity in order to help make patrons feel comfortable and enjoy their temple experience.  I loved serving my sisters, and enjoyed my temple calling every week for six years.

GG  

[emeliza]

53 minutes ago, Garden Girl said:

 

1)  Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Worship... by John A. Tvedtnes (still available online I believe, originally published by FAIR, 1999).

2)  The Hand As A Cup In Ancient Temple Worship... by Dr. Lynn M. Hilton (from the 30th Annual Symposium on the Archaeology of the Scriptures - 9/26/1981).

If you can't find either of these, send me a PM...

GG

I still have these from when you mailed them to me over 9 years ago.  ☺️

[Stargazer]

Not sure how serious the OP is about this, but I've just run into this book, and it might help, too.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Symbols-Through-Scripture-History-ebook/dp/B01N3SM7E8

[snowflake]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 9:31 PM, rpn said:

But the value of the temple recommend is in being able to say you are worthy before God, in its reminder to help you honor your covenants.

What are the requirements to become worthy? I mean specifically, the bible tells us that no on one is righteous, not even one.

¹⁰ As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

And Psalm 14:3 tells us as well:

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Why do the LDS temple holders consider themselves "worthy before God"?   I submit that you are not worthy, no one is.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, snowflake said:

What are the requirements to become worthy? I mean specifically, the bible tells us that no on one is righteous, not even one.

¹⁰ As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

And Psalm 14:3 tells us as well:

They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Why do the LDS temple holders consider themselves "worthy before God"?   I submit that you are not worthy, no one is.

They consider themselves worthy through the blood of Christ which was shed for their sins. You know, the thing all Christians are trying to achieve.