longview

It is NOT my contention that the Brass Plates originated with Joseph of Egypt. When I said "records" I was actually thinking of multiple scrolls from various sources. Including Jacob and Joseph. I have no idea of when any of the possessors started transcribing or even abridging the "records" onto brass plates. Did Joseph do it? Or even Laban? He was also powerful and wealthy. My guess would be immediate descendants of Ephraim and/or Manasseh. Or sometime after a "new pharoah" supplanted the previous regime.

ha ha. Because Laban set himself up to exercise unrighteous dominion over them, he became subject to God's condemnation. Pay close attention to the timeline, how there was a progression of more severe consequences.

As I indicated, the "records" possibly migrated with Joseph's sarcophagus to northern Israel then to Jerusalem. Along the way, it acquired the "five books of Moses" plus had references to relatively unknown prophets such as Zenos and Zenock who probably lived in the north. Jeremiah was a contemporary of Lehi and Laban. Laban must have considered Jeremiah to be a major prophet so he could easily have the words added to the Brass Plates with metal sheets inserted. BEFORE Nephi and his brothers showed up to mightily disturb Laban. The genealogy mentioned by Lehi might have focused on descendants of Manasseh which continued to be updated all the way to to the time of Laban. Hel 8:19 And now I would that ye should know, that even since the days of Abraham there have been many prophets that have testified these things; yea, behold, the prophet Zenos did testify boldly; for the which he was slain. Hel 15:11 Yea, even if they should dwindle in unbelief the Lord shall prolong their days, until the time shall come which hath been spoken of by our fathers, and also by the prophet Zenos, and many other prophets, concerning the restoration of our brethren, the Lamanites, again to the knowledge of the truth—

Would it be more likely that Joseph of Egypt (son of Jacob/Israel) had the time, wealth, and prestige to consolidate all extant Hebrew records from Noah, Shem, Melchizedek, Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. Did he already have his new version of "innovative" reformed Egyptian script that easily corresponded with the Hebrew. His sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, could have maintained this record and passed them on to their descendants. When the Hebrews started being subjugated into slavery, they could have hidden the records in the sarcophagus of Joseph (the bones of Joseph). Which was eventually moved into the northern parts of Canaan (the inheritances of the Tribes of Ephraim and/or Manasseh). The progenitors of Lehi and Laban may have eventually migrated south to the land of Jerusalem. Thus safely preserving the records from the destruction of the Northern Kingdom (Lost Ten Tribes).

I agree on this one! One speaker and done. This would limit each ward to only 49 Sundays thus only 49 speakers per year. This will deny a youth speaker and two adults. Thus depriving 98 people the opportunity for public speaking and building character.

I get a good chuckle from time to time. I offered a post (several pages ago) concerning a thought experiment on how far down the quantum particles will subdivide, becoming "finer and finer" which might reveal the realm of spirit matter. Your response seemed to accept the concept but then you tried to deflect by "demanding" that I read a ponderous (was it 600 pages?) philosophical work. The reason for my post was because you claimed that any consideration of spirits and angels were "unscientific" and thus were to be dismissed and NOT be part of the discussion. Which makes you out to be very "self-serving".

Forgive me for becoming jaded with his constant drumbeat of negativity and unending rupture of victim classes and outrage at how awful and unjust mortal experiences are. Frequently pontificating on how God is just NOT proceeding with his expectations.

With the wave of your hands, you will pronounce an unassailable conclusion that simply cannot be refuted. </end sarcasm>

A very petulant post. Sounds kind of whiney. The Second Estate: make of it however you want to proceed. Rejecting the power of the Atonement will afford a different path for you.

Oh? Were you force-fed Snelgroves before bedtime? ----------(just kidding)---------

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

I hear this a lot but experience hasn’t borne this out in my experience. Your experience? Are you claiming you know what God knows? Not during mortalityj!

I don’t think this has anything to do with discipleship. I don’t think any real form of purity is even possible for humans. Some elements of what we call purity or aspirational but the nature of our being makes it impossible to achieve. This is NOT about perfection. This mortal fallen world is intended to be a challenge and a test and a learning experience. We can strive to be pure WITHOUT having to be perfectly pure. The Plan of Happiness is marvelous. Discipleship is WORTH striving for! We can make choices about important issues (about everything). Some deserve careful consideration. That seem like it is just worrying about what the neighbors will think with extra steps. Jesus wasn’t big on that kind of thinking. Signaling to God is more important than appeasing carnal flesh. Which is odd since the Word of Wisdom as written endorses beer drinking and doesn’t mention any of those reasons for the things it does disapprove of. Yet some do get into grief with over consumption of beer. Trust in God's counsels and His saving commands. God doesn’t need us to do virtue signaling to figure out where someone stands. Neither does God want us to do "play acting" but to truly engage in the challenges of mortal life. It is a tremendous blessing to participate in the Second Estate. No, I would not give my child (even if they are an adult) pornography or a lurid item (I assume you mean sex toys here). That would be deeply weird. It would be weird with any family member really. This is why we gauge our choices. Some are off limits. Some require sincere and thoughtful considerations. Some are in the gray zone. I don’t know of any scripture that makes the “hot drinks” bit less important than the “strong drink” bit. I know that culturally they are treated differently on separate tiers but I have no reason to believe God makes any such distinction. God sees the heart and the mind AND knows MORE than you know about yourself. GOOO-O-O-O-O-O MAHA ! ! ! (Make America Healthy Again)

True. The Soviets downplayed computer science. They used large staffs of mathematicians. The US had a huge advantage in computers for quickly calculating orbital mechanics and also for manufacturing and design.

It is NOT just any worldly culture. This is a more important test of discipleship. It is NOT just about purity (although it is one of the important attributes for emulating God). It is about messaging. To the receiver, it is love, esteem, gratitude, etc. To some, it might signal a willingness to compromise standards or integrity. Everyone needs to be aware of the negative aspects of alcohol consumption. Such as toxicity to the liver, addictions, mind alterations, etc. Some families are cursed by fractured relationships, financial ruin, violence, etc. Why would sincere disciples want to send a double-minded message? What kind of message would they want to send to God? Suppose you substitute pornagraphy or some lurid item, would you be comfortable? We did the same for my grandma when I was a kid. FWIW I definitely don't feel the same about coffee or tea as I do with drinking or smoking. Coffee consumption is NOT as drastic as alcohol. I suppose circumstances can vary. I would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc. But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.