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  1. It is obvious you do not understand the college analogy. It is saddening how you are so obtuse to why it is important for us to experience the fallen nature of this world. The variety is necessary. God will be completely fair. His generosity will be stunning (even to you). No. You have gone off into the weeds. That does not happen. There are 3 degrees in the Celestial Kingdom. Pretty sure you would know this. You are just being ridiculous. You are screaming social justice outrage. My older brother, who is completely deaf, was given a patriarchal blessing that states he was trained to communicate by sight in the pre-existence. This suggests the training and preparations for all who are entering into the Second Estate. Maybe you were taught to be a "Karen".
  2. Ok. The fact remains that entry into the Second Estate is an "Equal Opportunity Event" (the starting line). To take the college analogy further: people who are interested in continuing with their education after high school have "equal opportunity" to enroll in the college of their choice; after that point they choose different courses, specialize in their field of interest, and so on. There is a dizzying array of options.
  3. The experiences we get in mortality do not always involve religious or churchy things. Such as learning how to socialize with family and friends, improving skills in conflict resolution, multiplying the talents in any of the non-religious fields, etc. There is a huge myriad of things that will strengthen the person. They are just as useful for God to assess quality and goodness of each individual. Which can exceed the attributes we had in the pre-existence. These qualities will be an important addition to when judgment/resurrection occurs. Most do not have opportunities for learning the Gospel, participating in charitable service, making covenants, obtaining ordinances, etc. But they will still have gained many important qualities and attributes as a result of enduring the challenges of mortality. Agree. Maybe we should not rule out the possibility of a single extraordinary person who has a powerful instinct for being selfless and showing kindness to others. Who is able to feel strongly the impressions of the spirit and to act ever more consistently in acting on the promptings. This could occur deep in the remote jungles? Not at all my contention. Everything is inter-related: before the First Estate, Second Estate, Spirit Paradise/Prison, Resurrection, future assignments, etc. I still say that the very point of entering into the Second Estate was an "Equal Opportunity Event" (the actual starting line). The enormous variations in the conditions of mortality do NOT take away this idea of a starting point. We are not forced to accept a pre-determined outcome at the end (Lucifer's proposal which would have made everyone equally miserable).
  4. My points are honed by half a century of steady scripture reading and meditations. Of course I cannot speak for you or the church. I feel pretty solid about what I have presented. I am sure all of us will continue to grow in the Gospel and come closer to Christ. Bless you!
  5. Apparently you are not quite grasping the analogy of college students in earlier my posts. Also, some spirits were quite advanced in the pre-existence and do not need the heavy-duty earth experiences. God is the arbiter and will ALWAYS provide. You need to trust God with all the prerequisites and the work that may continue in the next world. The concept still holds, it IS necessary for all of us to have freedom of opportunity. And, yes, it still is equality of opportunity. You are just ****ering on the details. Do not fret, my boy.
  6. Not quite. The earthly mortal experience is a VERY necessary and crucial lynchpin of the Plan of Happiness. You should NOT de-emphasize the importance of going thru the Second Estate. Spirit children were thrilled when they were presented at the Grand Council - - - Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
  7. I have already stated that Earth is a fantastic laboratory with its plentiful array of experiences and challenges. No doubt everyone will get more than his quota (several times over). It should be obvious that lives will vary tremendously. Sufficient for God to make a thorough assessment (and to convince the "student" of his successes and/or shortcomings). The 2 day old baby has NOT lost anything. The child will obtain what is needed in the next world (maybe he was already super-qualified in the pre-existence). I have already stated that different people will be given different tests. College students do NOT need to take the exact same courses. Some experiences are needed for certain people but NOT for everybody. All in all, everybody benefits. If you think everybody has to have exactly the same experiences, then you would fall into Satan's trap. It is equal opportunities in the sense of being free to learn what needed for the individual. This is NOT cookie cutter socialism where ONE size fits all.
  8. It does not matter. The vast majority of people born into the world do not learn of the Gospel. But God is still involved in providing blessings for every person (regardless of their "membership" status). God will continually influence everybody. Some will become better people as a result but others will continue to degrade to the point of becoming deaf to the whisperings of the spirit. We are given different tests. Some are born with deformed body parts. Others are born into chaos, into boredom, opulent lifestyles, stark poverty, what have you. Maybe there was something lacking or underdeveloped in the pre-existence that would cause God to place the spirit child into a particular circumstance so he will get the benefit. God is over all. Everything He does has a purpose. Every person born into mortality will learn in a deeply meaningful way from his own experiences. Everything that happens is useful to BOTH God and to every person. All will be reviewed and supplemented if needed in the next world. What seems tragic to you is what is necessary for carrying out the Plan of Happiness (in the long run). The point is we are given tremendous blessings in coming to mortality (equal opportunity for learning and experiencing). It is NOT so with Satan's plan (forcing everybody to have the same result). Outcome based equality results in EQUAL MISERY.
  9. Yes. Jacob probably spent a great deal of time being a homebody and helping Rebekah with many of her chores. Whereas Esau was a rough and tumble macho guy who went many days out in the wilderness hunting and carousing with hard people. The point is the brothers were more alike in the early tender years but they diverged away from each as they got older.
  10. From your link, did you read the paragraphs about Cain ruling over Lucifer?
  11. What do you think the purpose is of the Second Estate? Isn't Earth intended to be an astonishing laboratory for us to experience mortality? With the veil of forgetfulness over our minds? Just so we can live our lives without the overwhelming glory of God in our memory? Why would you separate the "context of mortality" from the PURPOSE of this creation and the subsequent fall? I don't understand your "certainty" ?
  12. Essentially my point. Even then, the participants are not equal. Cain and Abel were regarded as having high potential by their parents Adam and Eve. Jacob and Esau were twins born of Rebekah and Isaac. All the children were equally privileged and taught the same things but all had different outcomes. Abel went on to his great reward in Heaven but Cain became perdition. Jacob was accorded the birthright but Esau might still have opportunity to complete the "race" in tail end of his mortal life or make adjustments in the next world. There was also a starting line in the pre-existence. We were all intelligences before we became spirit children of Heavenly Parents. At the start we were of varying levels of intelligence and abilities but we were all given equal opportunity for entering into the First Estate. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Abraham 3:26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever. Abraham 3:28 And the second (Lucifer) was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him. Exactly. I did not intend it to be about the "runner" trying to beat out the other participants. It is our individual efforts during mortality where we try to learn the important lessons and experience all that our Father in Heaven will give us before we pass on to the next world. Surely we will continue to make reconciliations there. I agree with @Hamba Tuhan that it does not matter where we are in life. We are all at different points of progression thru mortality. We have our ups and down. Apostle Paul wrote in Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Your use of the scripture you quoted has a different context and is applicable elsewhere. No. Not my point. Not intended to be political. Even though I may have used the Soviet Union as an example earlier in this thread but it was to illustrate my points about the use of agency. Please review my comments to Calm at the top of this post. It is not idolatry to believe that Heavenly Father is giving EVERY one that is born into the world (Second Estate) equal opportunities for learning and progressing. We all have different challenges and circumstances. But God is over all and will continue to try us and to refine us (if we will let Him). It is NOT weird. You just need to quit over reacting.
  13. Do you understand the distinction between the two scenarios? 1- everybody gets the chance to line up at the starting line and run the race to the best of their abilities. 2- everybody has to reach the finish line at exactly the same time. Guess which of the two Satan advocates? I'm pretty sure you were at that Great Council where the two options were explained. Number 1 is called equal opportunity. The second is called equal outcome.
  14. Yes. The followers of Satan bought the line that the only fair thing is for EVERYBODY to have equal outcomes. Whereas God the Father and Jesus provided equal opportunities. Kind of analogous to why the Soviet Union collapsed in the 90's. It was expressed with this saying: "I will pretend to work for as long as you pretend to pay me".
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