If all prophets...

[JLHPROF]

37 minutes ago, manol said:

Very interesting - that might fill in some blanks.  Please elaborate!

https://www.ldsliving.com/the-relationship-between-relief-society-priesthood-and-the-temple/s/90295

 

[Calm]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I think it would depend on what knowledge they came alive with. 

And how much time and interaction they get with current prophets and each other who could explain the reasoning and testify to revelation where it occurred before they are required to give their opinion for the question.  
 

Assuming revelation was available to all during their life and now they are encountering the changes, I assume eventually they would be good with most of the changes even if shocked to begin with, but might take issue with some policy changes.

Also their personalities wouldn’t be identical to the ones they died with even if we assume the veil hasn’t completely lifted for them.  My guess is the afterlife mellows people, they better understand the big picture and why God operates the way he does and don’t feel the need to manage people’s lives themselves and so wouldn’t be freaking out later prophets had destroyed God’s work…assuming her later prophets are also prophets like the earlier ones.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

Eh.  It all depends on which subs you visit.   There is a faithful latter-day saint sub there.  Good subs on travel, money, to do apps, watercolor, etc.  

Though I may be in trouble because I follow way too many cat related subs, especially since I am starting to consider whether to keep the cat that was abandoned on me.

Yes, I was just kidding again, of course 🥰

[CV75]

John Keating would show up and form a Dead Prophets Society

[Maestrophil]

13 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I think the question is much more interesting if we imagine a scenario where they are not aware of what has transpired after they died.

For example:

How would Brigham Young react to seeing black priesthood holders or mixed-race marriages in the temple?

Would Joseph Smith be surprised to see that the 2nd coming has not yet happened?

How would prophets before 1900 react to seeing we no longer practice polygamy on earth?

What would early prophets think about the office of the Presiding Patriarch being empty?

Is the current leadership structure how Joseph Smith envisioned it?

What would past prophets think of the size of the Church's investment fund and how it is being used especially Heber J. Grant.

 

Great thoughts!

 

[JAHS]

13 hours ago, CA Steve said:

I think the question is much more interesting if we imagine a scenario where they are not aware of what has transpired after they died.

For example:

How would Brigham Young react to seeing black priesthood holders or mixed-race marriages in the temple?

Would Joseph Smith be surprised to see that the 2nd coming has not yet happened?

How would prophets before 1900 react to seeing we no longer practice polygamy on earth?

What would early prophets think about the office of the Presiding Patriarch being empty?

Is the current leadership structure how Joseph Smith envisioned it?

What would past prophets think of the size of the Church's investment fund and how it is being used especially Heber J. Grant.

 

What would the earlier prophets think about all the changes in the temple ceremony and garments?

And only a two hour church meeting?

I wonder what Brigham would think if he stood in the same place he did in 1847 and saw what became of his city?

Edited January 9, 2023 by JAHS

[blackstrap]

I wonder if Jonah would be surprised or perhaps vindicated to see what Nineveh  looks like now. And I also wonder if Moroni has seen his prophesies about Joseph and the latter-Day church fulfilled . 

[Nofear]

1 hour ago, Balaam said:

I believe most of them have already met and gotten to know each other on the other side of the veil.  They are still alive even though we often use the word "dead": to refer to the fact that they are (still?) separated from their other physical body.

So they would think whatever they're thinking today.

They may even already be resurrected. With you, I think they have also met and interacted. I suspect they are all currently of pretty similar minds with their concern, applaud, designs, and hopes for the Church *and* that they are *still* actively engaged in assisting the Church within the constraints and rules of post-mortality.

[Amulek]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:41 PM, Rain said:

If all prophets came alive and met each other, what would they think?

I suspect, after seeing us, they would look at each other knowingly and then just kind of sigh...still not Zion.

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by Amulek

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Balaam said:

I believe most of them have already met and gotten to know each other on the other side of the veil.  They are still alive even though we often use the word "dead": to refer to the fact that they are (still?) separated from their other physical body.

So they would think whatever they're thinking today.

Possibly, but please take the question as intended.  A conversation starter.  A conversation to think about with their different ideas, styles, personalities etc.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Balaam said:

I believe most of them have already met and gotten to know each other on the other side of the veil.  They are still alive even though we often use the word "dead": to refer to the fact that they are (still?) separated from their other physical body.

So they would think whatever they're thinking today.

And we know that Brother Joseph appeared to Brother Brigham.  Who's to say that other predecessors have not appeared to their successors?  If any of my [reasonably devout Latter-day Saint] readers believe that is not the case, why do you believe that?   

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Amulek said:

I suspect, after seeing us, they would look at each other knowingly and then just kind of sigh...still not Zion.

 

I'm torn, somewhat, between, "Hasten Zion!" on the one hand, and "I'm not ready ... nearly!"    on the other.  Yes, absolutely: I do believe there are things we can do to build Zion in our personal lives, in our families, in our homes, and in our wards and stakes.  (I think President Nelson is doing his best to prod us toward those objectives.)  We need not wait for that.  It's within our control ... completely. 

Conversely, I don't know how much we can do on an individual basis to hasten Zion, writ large.  There are things on a world scale that need to happen, geopolitically, to bring that about, and I'm not sure how much that process can be hastened by our individual and small-scale efforts to build Zion.  (Of course, I do know that there is a difference between Zion [writ large] being built and the Second Coming.  Once the former happens, in a sense, it doesn't matter how long we must wait for the latter to happen.)

[The Nehor]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:41 PM, Rain said:

Saw this on reddit, but using US presidents, so I'm changing it for our board.

If all prophets came alive and met each other, what would they think?

What are we doing here?

Also if the Presidents were all brought back the Federalists would sit off to the side and try to stay out of the fracas. The rabid pro-slavery ones would hopefully be beaten back to death. The Democrats and Republicans would ask the Democratic Republicans which of them are the true heirs of Jefferson’s party and Jefferson would probably view both of them with contempt. The Pre-Nixon and pre-Reagan Republicans would wonder what the hell happened after they left. The pre-FDR and pre-LBJ Democrats would wonder the same thing.

Edited January 11, 2023 by The Nehor

[theplains]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:41 PM, Rain said:

Saw this on reddit, but using US presidents, so I'm changing it for our board.

If all prophets came alive and met each other, what would they think?

I think the non-LDS prophets would disavow the following:

The Prophet spoke at a Church conference in April 1834: “President Joseph Smith, Jun., read 
the second chapter of Joel’s prophecy, prayed, and addressed the conference as follows: … ‘We 
are differently situated from any other people that ever existed upon this earth; consequently 
those former revelations cannot be suited to our conditions; they were given to other people, 
who were before us;

“When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, ‘Brother Brigham, 
I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the 
written word of God.’ Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; 
he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, 
and laid it down before him, and he said: ‘There is the written word of God to us, concerning 
the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now,’ said he, ‘when 
compared with the [living] oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the 
word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood 
in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the 
books.’ That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the 
congregation: ‘Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the 
truth.’”16

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-16?lang=eng
 

[manol]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

[quoting Brigham Young] "when compared with the [living] oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books."

Are the only valid "living oracles" the leadership of the LDS Church?

Hundreds if not thousands of ordinary people have had vivid near-death experiences, and they often come back with messages for us.  Are these ordinary people "living oracles" to the extent that they are messengers? 

Here is a compilation video of near-death experiencers relaying their messages, no need to watch the whole thing, but maybe at least a few minutes to get a feel for it.  The audio quality is poor in some places so you might want to turn on Closed Captioning:

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by manol

[InCognitus]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:20 AM, theplains said:

I think the non-LDS prophets would disavow the following:

The Prophet spoke at a Church conference in April 1834: “President Joseph Smith, Jun., read 
the second chapter of Joel’s prophecy, prayed, and addressed the conference as follows: … ‘We 
are differently situated from any other people that ever existed upon this earth; consequently 
those former revelations cannot be suited to our conditions; they were given to other people, 
who were before us;

“When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, ‘Brother Brigham, 
I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the 
written word of God.’ Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; 
he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, 
and laid it down before him, and he said: ‘There is the written word of God to us, concerning 
the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now,’ said he, ‘when 
compared with the [living] oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the 
word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood 
in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the 
books.’ That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the 
congregation: ‘Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the 
truth.’”16

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-16?lang=eng
 

I think Jeremiah would agree with Joseph and Brigham:

"For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."  (Jeremiah 2:13)

"Then said they, Come, and let us devise devices against Jeremiah; for the law shall not perish from the priest, nor counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophet. Come, and let us smite him with the tongue, and let us not give heed to any of his words." (Jeremiah 18:18)

Jeremiah wasn't very happy about Israel rejecting the word of the Lord that was being given to them at that time.  He would definitely agree with Joseph and Brigham.

[theplains]

On 1/19/2023 at 3:33 PM, manol said:

Are the only valid "living oracles" the leadership of the LDS Church?

I'm not LDS so I don't view any of the leadership as being oracles of God.

[smac97]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:41 PM, Rain said:

Saw this on reddit, but using US presidents, so I'm changing it for our board.

If all prophets came alive and met each other, what would they think?

In what context?  What perspective would they have?  Would they be resurrected, now endowed with far more light and knowledge than they had in mortality?  Or would they have the same level of light and knowledge that they had at the end of their tenure as Presiding High Priest?  Or in the middle or beginning of their ministry?

Thanks,

-Smac

[Thinking]

33 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Would they be resurrected, now endowed with far more light and knowledge than they had in mortality?  Or would they have the same level of light and knowledge that they had at the end of their tenure as Presiding High Priest?

Emphasis mine. Kind of like those parents who were idiots as teenagers and now want their teenage children to not be idiots.

[Tacenda]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:33 PM, manol said:

Are the only valid "living oracles" the leadership of the LDS Church?

Hundreds if not thousands of ordinary people have had vivid near-death experiences, and they often come back with messages for us.  Are these ordinary people "living oracles" to the extent that they are messengers? 

Here is a compilation video of near-death experiencers relaying their messages, no need to watch the whole thing, but maybe at least a few minutes to get a feel for it.  The audio quality is poor in some places so you might want to turn on Closed Captioning:

 

 

Thanks for this. I rely on NDE's and my niece is a Medium, and I need, neeeed to know I'll be with my parents again. It's what got me through when they died within 2 months of each other. 

It always makes me crazy when I hear LDS, not believe in Mediums or NDE's because since I was a child in the church we were taught the only thing between the living and the dead is a veil. 

[The Nehor]

On 1/8/2023 at 9:56 PM, JAHS said:

What would the earlier prophets think about all the changes in the temple ceremony and garments?

And only a two hour church meeting?

I wonder what Brigham would think if he stood in the same place he did in 1847 and saw what became of his city?

Wait, you have to wear temple garments all the time? Why?

Why did you put the church meetings all together in the first place?

Oh good, they finally got that temple up. Finally.

[manol]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:11 PM, Tacenda said:

Thanks for this. I rely on NDE's and my niece is a Medium, and I need, neeeed to know I'll be with my parents again. It's what got me through when they died within 2 months of each other. 

It always makes me crazy when I hear LDS, not believe in Mediums or NDE's because since I was a child in the church we were taught the only thing between the living and the dead is a veil. 

Thank you.

I don't think this lady is herself a medium, but she has intensely studied communications that come through mediums.  Her overall paradigm and in particular her understanding of the teachings of Jesus is imo extremely refreshing (I tried several times to post this as just the link but wasn't given the option):

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by manol