theplains

According to what Joseph Smith wrote, Heavenly Father has wives. D&C 132:1,29-31 "Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines" "Abraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne. Abraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose loins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph - which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the stars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them. This promise is yours also, because ye are of Abraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself". It is written that wives and concubines were also afforded to many others of God's servants. "David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me" (D&C 132:38).

I believe the Bible, but I base it on faith + external evidences (archaeology for one thing, plus the church would not exist without the resurrection of Christ). There is too much in creation and intelligent design for me to become an atheist. I have also studied other religions too and questioned them and also compared them with the teachings of Christ. I still did this even though being raised in a Catholic home. While the Book of Mormon has copied some parts of the Bible into it, I view it more of a story and not anywhere comparable to the Bible. The LDS Church even felt the need to add "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" to the Book of Mormon circa 1981.

A member of Buddhism, Hinduism, or Islam (with the 'word' or 'seed' of their own religion) could try the experiment of Alma 32:28-39 and happily choose to remain a Buddhist, Hindu, or Muslim instead of following Christ.

Do you believe the prophets of the Book of Mormon believed or rejected what was written about God in the plates of brass held by Laban (which supposedly contained the 5 books of Moses - 1 Nephi 5:11)? You are correct. The Book of Mormon does not depict this type of genocide but it does describe a separation of people based on God cursing the people with the sign of black skin (Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed, from this time henceforth and forever, except they repent of their wickedness and turn to me that I may have mercy upon them - Alma 3:14). This same God in the Book of Mormon did so so the Lamanites would not be enticing to the Nephites (2 Nephi 5:21). Alma 23:18 indicates that the curse was eventually removed from the Lamanites and followed them no more, but it does not say if their skin color changed back to how the Nephites were. Unless you believe a person can be both a murderer and a follower of Christ at the same time. Putin also believes he is acting in the will of God with the blessing of the Russian Orthodox Church.

One could argue that the Book of Mormon is more violent than even the Bible when you look at all the millions killed in the great Jaredite battle (which I don't believe ever happened). This would possibly make it the the only war in history where it went down to the last man, woman, and child standing - in this case, one man standing. http://byustudies.byu.edu/further-study-chart/138-the-two-final-battles/ As for the Quran, I suggest reading The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom. It deals with the status of non-Muslim populations (the dhimmis) after the conquest of their lands by Muslims. The oppression continues in our day.

The Quran has many misunderstandings of the Bible. See Qur’An-Bible Comparison by Ami Ben-Chanan.

Including @Niblo too. I found this website. https://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_1.html It gives a clear explanation of how Muslims understand the term 'son of God', which is in a literal way (source: https://quran.com/) Sura 10:68: They say, “Allah has offspring.” Glory be to Him! He is the Self-Sufficient. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. You have no proof of this! Do you say about Allah what you do not know? Sura 6:101: ˹He is˺ the Originator of the heavens and earth. How could He have children when He has no mate? He created all things and has ˹perfect˺ knowledge of everything. In regards to your comment about lust. I don't believe lust is involved when human families sire children. If you do, you may want to consider the teaching of the celestial Sireship in Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual.

The LDS Presidency could claim they actually didn't know (if you can believe that) how their $32bn investment fund was managed or structured. "Ignorance is bliss" as some would say. Like Alex Murdaugh in his murder trial ... I don't recall or I don't remember it that way. Using shell companies is not a form of lying, but concealment is not really following the spirit of the law.

Don't forget to also include the non-exalted beings who are said to exist in the two lower divisions of the celestial kingdom.

Thank you for that comparison. Here is a snip from a BYU speech. https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/dallin-h-oaks/honest-behavior/ A lie is not always told in so many words. It may be a creature of concealment or a misrepresentation by action or a half-truth. In the long run, the course of absolute honesty and total truthfulness is not only the best course but also the easiest. The person who lies and then must tell another lie to cover the first, and then another and another until he has built a whole overlapping shingled roof of lies is a person to be pitied. At some point one of those covering lies will be exposed, and the whole overlapping structure will come down with a clap of thunder like the doomsday bell. The liar’s iniquity will truly be “spoken upon the housetop.” A person who is only partially honest and only partially truthful is always having to make hard decisions about whether each new circumstance of life calls for honesty or deceit.

So it seems the non-exalted beings in the telestial, terrestrial, and two lower divisions of the celestial kingdom do not qualify as sons and daughters of God because they do not satisfy the conditions in verses 14-17.

Romans 8:12-17 mentions the following: "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together". Since you believe that a "son of God" make one equal to God (or a Goddess in the case of a female), then do you also believe only those led by the Sprit of God are the sons of God and the non-exalted beings are not led by the Spirit of God because they are living after the flesh?

He also said, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me".

I was just saying that God's testimony about himself is more important than our testimony.

Instead of your own testimony, I would suggest you rely on God's testimony of himself. "Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10).

I'm not LDS so I don't view any of the leadership as being oracles of God.

Maybe Alma 40 explains it well. [11] Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection -- Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life. [12] And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow. [13] And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil -- for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house -- and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil. [14] Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.

You misunderstand Galatians 5:9. See verses 6-8 for context.

I think the non-LDS prophets would disavow the following: The Prophet spoke at a Church conference in April 1834: “President Joseph Smith, Jun., read the second chapter of Joel’s prophecy, prayed, and addressed the conference as follows: … ‘We are differently situated from any other people that ever existed upon this earth; consequently those former revelations cannot be suited to our conditions; they were given to other people, who were before us; “When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, ‘Brother Brigham, I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the written word of God.’ Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: ‘There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now,’ said he, ‘when compared with the [living] oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books.’ That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the congregation: ‘Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth.’”16 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-16?lang=eng

If Adolf Hitler was named in a baptism for the dead, what would his kingdom be? And what do you mean by "saved"?

I wouldn't focus on numbers. Quality is preferable to quantity.

Thanks. I'll open up a new thread in the future to revisit it.

What do you believe is the time and place for your interpretation of what Psalm chapter 82 teaches?

If the early Christian teachings don't agree with the Bible, I don't believe it. I believe God from eternity to eternity is the same as God from everlasting to everlasting. That is why I don't believe Joseph Smith's Heavenly Father (a man who became a God) is "God from everlasting to everlasting" or "God from eternity to eternity". I believe the gods of Psalms 82 are corrupt human judges. Even Moses and Satan are referred to a "god" but they are not deities.

Does "if children, then joint-heirs" mean "if children, then exaltation" to you?