The Continued Decline of Young Men Willing to Serve a Mission

[Rain]

16 minutes ago, filovirus said:

You are right in that there will be exceptions, but right now our current council from a prophet of God is this: "that the Lord has asked every worthy, able young man to prepare for and serve a mission. For Latter-day Saint young men, missionary service is a priesthood responsibility." (Russel M. Nelson, Sat Morning Session, April 2022 GC). So the question that worthy, able young men should be asking God is this: I am planning on fulfilling my responsibility to serve a mission unless You have a different plan for me?

I would say something more like "I am planning on fulfilling my responsibility to serve a mission. Is this what You want me to do?"  

16 minutes ago, filovirus said:

But what is the parent's responsibility. In the same GC session, President Ballard said the following: "Fathers and mothers of these wonderful youth, you have a vital role in this preparation process. Begin today to talk with your children about missionary service. We know that the family is the most profound influence in helping our young men and young women prepare." (M. Russel Ballard, Sat Moring Session, April 2022 GC).

What is the vital role? Help to influence young men and women to prepare. But I do not see it as failing for the parents if the son does not choose to serve a mission, as long as the son was taught correctly regarding the charge to serve.

Agreed, but for some of us, and I think there are more women who feel this way because of how the church emphasizes our calling to nurture, mother etc it is hard to know if we taught our children correctly enough. You can look at Lehi and think "of course he taught correctly enough.  He was a prophet.  I'm probably not as righteous as he is so I probably didn't teach correctly enough."

And then there is "if it's not my fault then it is his agency and that might mean he won't make it to the Celestial Kingdom and I can't deal with that."

It's not like people are clearly thinking those kind of things, but it is kind of the feelings you get.  

At the time this was going on with my son my ward and stake hammered on mothers having faith and that prayers change things.  I finally had to leave in the middle of stake conference one time because they kept talking about it.  When I would bring up agency and was trying to be ok with it others quickly came in and told me that I needed to have more faith.  

I am so grateful that some do not go through this, but for others of us it is incredibly painful.

16 minutes ago, filovirus said:

This would be teaching them correct principles, but allowing them to use their moral agency to choose to follow the voice of the prophets.

Few knew the doctrine of moral agency better than Lehi and Sariah, yet they still let all of their sons choose for themselves whether they would or would not follow God. Do we fault them for Laman and Lemuel choosing a different path? I would hope not. Yet on the opposite side of the spectrum, Eli in the book of 1 Samuel failed to teach his children correct principles, and so his sons sins fell and his head and his posterity was no longer worthy of the calling he had.

 

[manol]

7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I read other more uplifting and real things that I feel my creator has revealed to me is what is needed for me. His yoke is light...

^^LIKE!^^

This has been my experience as well. 

In my opinion God has not been quiet, but not everything he has to say comes through LDS channels.  Imo there is a whole new world waiting to be discovered by anyone who goes looking for it.  And members of the LDS Church are uniquely well-equipped to FIND it, and are even ENCOURAGED to do so, though sadly such encouragement rarely comes "over the pulpit":

"By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."  Moroni 7:5

''Seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith."  D&C 88:118

"You must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right."  D&C 9:8

"Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me."  Alma 32:28

"One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may." Joseph Smith

“We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.”  Joseph Smith

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth... The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.”  Joseph Smith

"We believe that [God] will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God."  9th Article of Faith

“Every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.”  Moroni 7:16

But in order to FIND, one must actually SEEK. 

Kudos to you @Tacenda for SEEKING!

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by manol

[Teancum]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:06 PM, Fether said:

Are we really afraid to declare something a sin or not?

Sin is a human construct.  So declaring something as not a sin is totally wonderful.

[Stormin' Mormon]

17 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Maybe the brethren need to sell the adventure, the worth of hard work, the growth that happens.  I think kids like climbing mountains, pushing themselves to the limit, getting away from parents for a bit.  Sell that!  What a great experience it was for me.  ... Two years is such a short time but enough time to gain some independence and enough time to get some experience being an adult.

A huge part of the non-spiritual value I got from my mission was in learning how to live on my own. In retrospect, I can see clearly that I was "living on my own" with a robust safety net.  I had enough to eat, I had medical coverage, I had a place to live, I had a job, and all my bills were taken care of by someone somewhere.  But I was not being constantly supervised; I was given a directive (bring souls to Christ) and given a lot of latitude on developing strategies and tactics in pursuit of that goal.  And my parents couldn't provide emotional support on specific challenges because mail took 3 - 4 weeks to get home and back with a response.

So even if I wasn't REALLY living on my own, my young naive self thought I was, and when I returned to university afterwards, it was with so much more confidence in myself than I had had during my freshman year. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Stormin' Mormon

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, manol said:

^^LIKE!^^

This has been my experience as well. 

In my opinion God has not been quiet, but not everything he has to say comes through LDS channels.  Imo there is a whole new world waiting to be discovered by anyone who goes looking for it.  And members of the LDS Church are uniquely well-equipped to FIND it, and are even ENCOURAGED to do so, though sadly such encouragement rarely comes "over the pulpit":

"By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."  Moroni 7:5

''Seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith."  D&C 88:118

"You must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right."  D&C 9:8

"Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me."  Alma 32:28

"One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may." Joseph Smith

“We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.”  Joseph Smith

“Mormonism is truth; and every man who embraces it feels himself at liberty to embrace every truth: consequently the shackles of superstition, bigotry, ignorance, and priestcraft, fall at once from his neck; and his eyes are opened to see the truth... The first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.”  Joseph Smith

"We believe that [God] will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God."  9th Article of Faith

“Every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.”  Moroni 7:16

But in order to FIND, one must actually SEEK. 

Kudos to you @Tacenda for SEEKING!

 

Whew I'm glad you had good things to say. I appreciate your thoughts and glad I didn't step on any toes, that I know of. Kudos for bringing up some great quotes!

[california boy]

I honestly think those that are calling it a sin to not serve a mission is so harmful.  Sending a message that if you don't serve a mission, you have somehow failed God is also wrong.  Young men should NOT be going on a mission because it is their duty and if they don't do it, somehow God is displeased with you.  This sounds more like forced servitude rather than serving God.

I had much the same attitude when I decided to go on a mission.  I felt like I was doing something that God would like me to do.  In my mind, I honestly thought that when I went before the judgement bar, God would condemn me for being gay and would weigh what kingdom I would be thrust down into.  I felt like if I served a mission, I could at least say in my defense that I had given two years of my life to Him.  Did that count for anything?  

What I found is that a mission was for me, not God.  I learned so many things that have helped me throughout my life. I learned leadership skills, how to talk to ANYONE no matter who they were even if we had nothing in common.  I learned how to reach out to others and help them see that they could work out difficulties.  I learned I could overcome great difficulties.  I learned to feel the Spirit and to listen to its guidance.  I learned about other cultures and different ways of living.  I experienced different food, different goals, different ethnic groups and how they view things differently than I did.  I credit my mission for giving me a solid foundation to build a life on.  I had to find my own way, my own path.  THESE are the reasons to go on a mission.  The LAST reason is some guilt trip that if you don't go, you are sinning and going against the will of God.  

@Fether, you are way off base.  You are pushing an agenda that is giving the completely wrong message about how God works in our lives.  He doesn't dictate and shame, he loves and encourages growth. And yes, I think Elder Nelson and other Church leaders are completely wrong to be pushing a mission as some duty required by God and if you don't do it, you are sinning.  I have seen missionaries that go on missions resenting being there and wishing they were home, doing something else.  They make crappy missionaries and don't get much out of going.  It is a loose loose message.

A mission is an opportunity, not a servitude that must be done out of duty and fear of shame.  That should be the message.

 

[The Nehor]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:42 PM, Harry T. Clark said:

Maybe the brethren need to sell the adventure, the worth of hard work, the growth that happens.  I think kids like climbing mountains, pushing themselves to the limit, getting away from parents for a bit.  Sell that!  What a great experience it was for me.  It's been a while, but I used to dream that I was called again to go on a mission and would always wake up excited, ready to attack the day.  So what about the history.  We have a great family atmosphere to sell where we work together to bring our fellow brothers and sisters to something better than they have now.  Man, kids are missing out if they don't go.  Two years is such a short time but enough time to gain some independence and enough time to get some experience being an adult.

I had that dream for about a decade after I got home. It wasn’t quite a nightmare but it wasn’t a happy dream where I was eager to go back.

[The Nehor]

In my ward we have an opposite problem. We have kids who want to go on a mission with member parents who are ostensibly active but don’t want their kids to go.

[jkwilliams]

47 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

In my ward we have an opposite problem. We have kids who want to go on a mission with member parents who are ostensibly active but don’t want their kids to go.

That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of a situation like that. I grew up with two guys whose father wasn’t LDS and insisted they couldn’t choose to serve missions until they were 21. So, they both went at 21.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:53 PM, Rain said:

I would say something more like "I am planning on fulfilling my responsibility to serve a mission. Is this what You want me to do?"  

Agreed, but for some of us, and I think there are more women who feel this way because of how the church emphasizes our calling to nurture, mother etc it is hard to know if we taught our children correctly enough. You can look at Lehi and think "of course he taught correctly enough.  He was a prophet.  I'm probably not as righteous as he is so I probably didn't teach correctly enough."

And then there is "if it's not my fault then it is his agency and that might mean he won't make it to the Celestial Kingdom and I can't deal with that."

It's not like people are clearly thinking those kind of things, but it is kind of the feelings you get.  

At the time this was going on with my son my ward and stake hammered on mothers having faith and that prayers change things.  I finally had to leave in the middle of stake conference one time because they kept talking about it.  When I would bring up agency and was trying to be ok with it others quickly came in and told me that I needed to have more faith.  

I am so grateful that some do not go through this, but for others of us it is incredibly painful.

 

When we were experiencing these difficulties, the only way we found we could survive was to give it over to the Lord. Our children have a Savior and it isn’t us. That does not mean we don’t care deeply. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of a situation like that. I grew up with two guys whose father wasn’t LDS and insisted they couldn’t choose to serve missions until they were 21. So, they both went at 21.

The parents want the kids to start their careers and have very specific ideas of what that career should be. It is not what the potential missionary wants to do for a career either. It is a mess.

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The parents want the kids to start their careers and have very specific ideas of what that career should be. It is not what the potential missionary wants to do for a career either. It is a mess.

Not saying these parents are 100% right in their hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child but Pres Nelson put his career first and didn't serve a mission until years later in 1955 through 1965 once a week for two hours at temple square in Salt Lake.

 

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Not saying these parents are 100% right in their hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child but Pres Nelson put his career first and didn't serve a mission until years later in 1955 through 1965 once a week for two hours at temple square in Salt Lake.

 

If I wasn’t clear the sons are wanting to go on a mission.

I also know that there was no general expectation for young men to serve a mission until the 70s.

[Durangout]

This may has something to do with lower numbers serving.

 

https://stream.org/why-are-so-many-young-americans-irreligious-the-secular-brainwash-is-the-first-reason/

Edited August 14, 2022 by Durangout

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not saying these parents are 100% right in their hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child but Pres Nelson put his career first and didn't serve a mission until years later in 1955 through 1965 once a week for two hours at temple square in Salt Lake.

 

How do we know that Pres. Nelson made a conscious decision to put his career ahead of serving the Lord?  That doesn't really sound like him, does it?

[The Nehor]

28 minutes ago, Durangout said:

This may has something to do with lower numbers serving.

 

https://stream.org/why-are-so-many-young-americans-irreligious-the-secular-brainwash-is-the-first-reason/

The made up idea that public school teachers are spending their days in the classroom proclaiming that God isn’t real and the Bible is bad? Somehow this happens with no public uproar and no students recording these diatribes against Christianity? The hilarious thing is that the people who are convinced the kids aren’t learning about God in school like they should grew up in public schools where God was also rarely mentioned. What changed?

It is a fever dream excuse. Look elsewhere for reasons religion is dying.

[Chum]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The made up idea that public school teachers are spending their days in the classroom proclaiming that God isn’t real and the Bible is bad?

My five kids did full tours in FL schools. In total, they ran into this zero times. This seems to be the same experience for every parent I know.

[jkwilliams]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The made up idea that public school teachers are spending their days in the classroom proclaiming that God isn’t real and the Bible is bad? Somehow this happens with no public uproar and no students recording these diatribes against Christianity? The hilarious thing is that the people who are convinced the kids aren’t learning about God in school like they should grew up in public schools where God was also rarely mentioned. What changed?

It is a fever dream excuse. Look elsewhere for reasons religion is dying.

I put 6 kids through the public education system in 3 different states, and none of them came across this alleged secular brainwashing. Who comes up with this nonsense?

[Ginger Snaps]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

How do we know that Pres. Nelson made a conscious decision to put his career ahead of serving the Lord?  That doesn't really sound like him, does it?

And I’d be very, very surprised if that decision wasn’t made with prayer.  

I grew up with a guy who chose marry the woman he was dating instead of going on a mission. They married in the temple, had a couple of kids, and she was diagnosed with cancer and passed away before their 4th anniversary. Obviously we can’t know what would have happened had different choices been made, but his mother, who I’m pretty sure was not thrilled with his decision to opt out of a mission, then felt like those grand-babies were a huge blessing and maybe they needed to be here more than he needed to serve a mission.  

We have to give others space for their personal revelation. Yes, missionary service is a priesthood responsibility (I won’t go so far as to call it part of the baptismal covenant or mandatory). Yes, most able young men should go. Some choose not go for reasons of which we may not be aware. 

[jkwilliams]

10 minutes ago, Chum said:

My five kids did full tours in FL schools. In total, they ran into this zero times. This seems to be the same experience for every parent I know.

Imagine someone in college saying to themselves, "It's long hours and low pay, but doggone it, I'm gonna fulfill my dream and brainwash some kids into hating God and America!"

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not saying these parents are 100% right in their hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child but Pres Nelson put his career first and didn't serve a mission until years later in 1955 through 1965 once a week for two hours at temple square in Salt Lake.

Not sure I understand your point. President Nelson was not President Nelson when he was 19. He was a 19 year old kid and his parents were not active members of the church and he was not even baptized until he was 16. Before that he played football on Sundays instead of going to church.  His parents had no "hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child".  Missionary activity was also greatly restricted during WW2 when he was missionary age.    All of these things may have affected his desire and opportunity to serve a mission at that time . In my opinion, because of all this, it's hard to say that he put his career first, instead of going on a mission. He did what he could do given the circumstances and conditions of his life at the time.  Just not sure why you are comparing him to young men today.

Edited August 14, 2022 by JAHS

[Tacenda]

5 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Not sure I understand your point. President Nelson was not President Nelson when he was 19. He was a 19 year old kid and his parents were not active members of the church and he was not even baptized until he was 16. Before that he played football on Sundays instead of going to church.  His parents had no "hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child".  Missionary activity was also greatly restricted during WW2 when he was missionary age.    All of these things may have affected his desire and opportunity to serve a mission at that time even if he wanted to. In my opinion, because of all this, it's hard to say that he put his career first, instead of going on a mission. He did what he could do given the circumstances and conditions of his life at the time.  Just not sure why you are comparing him to young men today.

When comparing to the pressure these young men/women are feeling I think there needs to be a balance.

[JAHS]

29 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

When comparing to the pressure these young men/women are feeling I think there needs to be a balance.

When the church leaders stand at the pulpit and proclaim that every young man should serve a mission, they are speaking to the whole world.
I think they do appreciate each individual person's desire and or ability to serve or not serve and respect that.  I think most of the pressure to serve comes from local leaders and members and parents. If a man chooses to not serve a mission they should continue to support him whatever his different choice is (school, military, profession, etc.)

[Rain]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Not sure I understand your point. President Nelson was not President Nelson when he was 19. He was a 19 year old kid and his parents were not active members of the church and he was not even baptized until he was 16. Before that he played football on Sundays instead of going to church.  His parents had no "hopes/ideas for their potential missionary child".  Missionary activity was also greatly restricted during WW2 when he was missionary age.    All of these things may have affected his desire and opportunity to serve a mission at that time . In my opinion, because of all this, it's hard to say that he put his career first, instead of going on a mission. He did what he could do given the circumstances and conditions of his life at the time.  Just not sure why you are comparing him to young men today.

This reminds me. I have incredibly mixed feelings on missions, but the idea that the first presidency didn't go doesn't phase me.

I didn't take typing in junior high, but I'm grateful my kids did.  I didn't learn to budget before I left the house, but as soon as I learned I made sure the 2 kids left home learned. 

I made mistakes in my childhood and young adulthood that I didn't want my children to make.  I made some mistakes with my children that I don't want them to make when they have kids.

It's ok and sometimes a good thing to teach others to do things you didn't do.  When we learn from our mistakes we should teach what the better thing to do is.

[Kenngo1969]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

In my ward we have an opposite problem. We have kids who want to go on a mission with member parents who are ostensibly active but don’t want their kids to go.

That would suck!  (Honestly, we might have the same problem in my ward.  I'm not "tuned in enough" to know ...)