jkwilliams Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 Just now, Fair Dinkum said: I was fortunate and won the golden ticket. My mission was heaven on earth People affectionately referred to our mission as “the Armpit of South America.” 1
Fair Dinkum Posted August 9, 2022 Author Posted August 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Danzo said: Almost no one in real life acts like they do on the internet. The Internet tends to bring out the worst in everyone. That's true...in real life my beard is much shorter
Fair Dinkum Posted August 9, 2022 Author Posted August 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: People affectionately referred to our mission as “the Armpit of South America.” I'm sorry...I read your book...I can't even begin to imagine surviving what you went though. No one should have to go through what you did.
jkwilliams Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said: I'm sorry...I read your book...I can't even begin to imagine surviving what you went though. No one should have to go through what you did. My experience was pretty mild compared with others, honestly. Writing it all out was pretty cathartic.
Rock_N_Roll Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Fether said: Do you believe rejecting the words of the prophets is a sin? Yes. They probably think serving a mission is a priesthood duty, as they’ve said as much. No. I don’t believe neglecting a priesthood duty is a sin. There is a difference between a priesthood duty and a commandment. Collecting fast offerings is a priesthood duty, but I wouldn’t consider is a sin if I didn’t want to do it one month. Rejecting the words of the prophet is only a sin if you personally believe those words came from God. It’s up to us individually to decide if we believe the prophet is speaking as a prophet or as a man when the words are uttered.
Rock_N_Roll Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: My experience was pretty mild compared with others, honestly. Writing it all out was pretty cathartic. You have a book about your mission experiences? I'd like to read that. I had some pretty "gnarly" experiences myself. Both good and bad.
pogi Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: People affectionately referred to our mission as “the Armpit of South America.” Where did you serve again? For some reason I thought you were somewhere in Mexico.
filovirus Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: “Today I reaffirm strongly that the Lord has asked every worthy, able young man to prepare for and serve a mission. For Latter-day Saint young men, missionary service is a priesthood responsibility.” - Pres Nelson That's quoting from one of your posts. Every worthy, able young man should prepare. "missionary service is a priesthood responsibility." President Nelson doesn't say anything about sin. As I said before, define able. You left out a portion. "Every worthy, able you man to prepare for and serve a mission." That's one of the reasons I hate sound bites, people just choose the words that support their version of the argument and forget the rest.
jkwilliams Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rock_N_Roll said: You have a book about your mission experiences? I'd like to read that. I had some pretty "gnarly" experiences myself. Both good and bad. There’s a link in my signature. I wrote it several years ago. 1
jkwilliams Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, pogi said: Where did you serve again? For some reason I thought you were somewhere in Mexico. Bolivia.
filovirus Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 My oldest son just turned 18 a week ago today. He still has one year of high school remaining, so 9 more months to consider a mission. He gets the usual pressure from church, but nothing above and beyond what most have experienced for the last 40 or so years. I have had a few candid talks with him about serving a mission. I always speak of mine in high regard. He knows that it is something God would want him to do if he is able, which at this point his health and well being is superb. He has some friends and family members who have served and some who have not. He sees that all are treated equally within the church. Some that served missions have left the church. Some that didn't serve missions have left the church. Both me and my wife are encouraging him, but ultimately we said it is his decision and his alone. Our bishop said that out of all the priests in our ward, he is only one that is highly motivated to serve a mission. All that being said, I do not believe an 8 year old understands everything that God wishes him (sorry, I am just speaking of young men at this time) to do. This is the responsibility of parents to continue teaching the things of God. It's also important to understand that when ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood, the person receiving this priesthood does not take upon him the oath of the priesthood. This only happens when receiving the Melkisedek priesthood. So I don't see it as a "commandment" that all young men serve a mission. But if the young man has full understanding of moral agency and a willingness to be a servant of God, I do think all young men should fulfil a mission whether they want to or not, because this is what God wants them to do. If any of my three sons chooses not to serve a mission, they will still be loved and not treated any differently than the others. 2
Fether Posted August 9, 2022 Posted August 9, 2022 43 minutes ago, Rock_N_Roll said: No. I don’t believe neglecting a priesthood duty is a sin. Just to gage where you are at. Would you say not reading scriptures is a sin?
Calm Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, ksfisher said: The wording seems poorly chosen. Of course young men have a choice. Everything we do in the church we have a choice in. Every time we do good we are making a choice. Every time we sin it is by choice. Heaven or hell is a choice. Yep…
Calm Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Fair Dinkum said: 🤮 This is EXACTLY the kind of rhetoric my grandson has been exposed to. It's turned him from an active believing member into someone wondering if there is any place left for him in the church You should let him know that not all members believe that way and it may just be that some leader or even just a member convinced enough of the local community to see things that way that it can feel like everyone thinks that way, but chances are the majority of members don’t. 1
Calm Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Fether said: It’s been turned up because our leaders and adults are teaching that young men don’t really need to serve missions if they don’t feel like it Turned up by who? If General Authorities, quotes please.
DT_ Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 7 hours ago, webbles said: * The service missionaries has almost continuously gone up. Only 2019 and 2020 show a decrease (one theory proposed for the decrease in 2018 was a definition change between service missionary and service "volunteer") As expected, Utah has one of the highest birth rates, and church members typically have more children. Why do you think the number of service missionaries isn't growing faster?
webbles Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, DT_ said: As expected, Utah has one of the highest birth rates, and church members typically have more children. Why do you think the number of service missionaries isn't growing faster? I have no idea. I'm actually not entirely sure what constitutes a "service mission". I know of several who were a service missionary but I also know people who did similar things but weren't service missionaries. 1
ksfisher Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 1 hour ago, filovirus said: You left out a portion. "Every worthy, able you man to prepare for and serve a mission." That's one of the reasons I hate sound bites, people just choose the words that support their version of the argument and forget the rest. I was quoting what Fether had quoted in his post.
SkyRock Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 I didn't serve in Bolivia, but next door in Brazil. One of the 4 guys in my MTC group was pushed to go on his mission. He was completely unprepared. He had never read the BoM prior to his mission and never paid attention to seminary or church classes. He served a good mission. My experience in Brazil had a few good parts and a ton of bad ones. I don't regret going.
Fair Dinkum Posted August 10, 2022 Author Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Calm said: You should let him know that not all members believe that way and it may just be that some leader or even just a member convinced enough of the local community to see things that way that it can feel like everyone thinks that way, but chances are the majority of members don’t. I think right now he’s been overloaded with the encouragement and expectations of his priesthood leaders, whom I don’t fault, who are just doing what they’ve been told to do. My grandson is always respectful, but he also just wants the “asking” to stop. Between priesthood leaders and ward members, he’s exhausted and he just wants his decision to be respected. 2
manol Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 48 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said: I think right now he’s been overloaded with the encouragement and expectations of his priesthood leaders, whom I don’t fault, who are just doing what they’ve been told to do. My grandson is always respectful, but he also just wants the “asking” to stop. Between priesthood leaders and ward members, he’s exhausted and he just wants his decision to be respected. I think I saw your grandson the other day...
sunstoned Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 7 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said: And I know that you had a very difficult mission experience... I read about that somewhere🙂
carbon dioxide Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said: I think right now he’s been overloaded with the encouragement and expectations of his priesthood leaders, whom I don’t fault, who are just doing what they’ve been told to do. My grandson is always respectful, but he also just wants the “asking” to stop. Between priesthood leaders and ward members, he’s exhausted and he just wants his decision to be respected. It is natural for ward members to ask as this is the age when people go on missions. So I would not fault the members. He just needs to tell the leaders that he is not in a place right now to go on a mission. Maybe he will later but right now its not in the cards or plans. If they continue he needs to just open up and tell them to stop. They are not his parents or family and they should not involve themselves in the decision process. 1
jkwilliams Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 7 hours ago, SkyRock said: I didn't serve in Bolivia, but next door in Brazil. One of the 4 guys in my MTC group was pushed to go on his mission. He was completely unprepared. He had never read the BoM prior to his mission and never paid attention to seminary or church classes. He served a good mission. My experience in Brazil had a few good parts and a ton of bad ones. I don't regret going. I don't regret my mission, either, not least of all because I met my wife there. And it was like yours: good, bad, and everything in between.
Teancum Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 17 hours ago, Fether said: This would be a fine argument if not for the fact that they recovenant with the sacrament every week of their life. No it still is a fine argument. They are still unable as teens to fully consent and also they have had years of conditioning as well by this point. 17 hours ago, Fether said: if someone, age 21, signs a contract, would they not be morally obliged to follow through with it? Likely yes. That still does not negate my argument.
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