The Continued Decline of Young Men Willing to Serve a Mission

[SeekingUnderstanding]

15 hours ago, Danzo said:

 In my area of the church, going on missions is encouraged but not everyone goes and I don't see any particular chastisement or negative reaction to people who choose not to serve.  In fact I only see love toward those that choose to go and those that choose not to go.    in my stake there is a much bigger emphasis on following the covenant path.  A mission is not a required step for salvation. 

Back before I became a heathen apostate, I attended a stake leadership meeting with Elder Keetch.  He went through exactly these talking points. It’s almost like you have the cliff notes!

[Teancum]

17 hours ago, bluebell said:

It's always so weird to me that some parents struggle with this kind of stuff.  But I guess it probably should be.  There are a lot of really screwed up adults out there.

The  pressure for YM to serve is also a pressure on parents to get them to serve. It is quite common for a Latter-day Saint parent to judge their success as a parent by the choices their children make.  I would guess if you don't feel this you are the exception rather than the rule.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 hours ago, Rock_N_Roll said:

You have a book about your mission experiences? I'd like to read that.  I had some pretty "gnarly" experiences myself. Both good and bad. 

It’s a really great read. 

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It’s a really great read. 

Thank you for saying that. I'm pleased that ex-Mormons and active members alike have had good things to say about it. I've had 3 negative reviews: the first from someone who hadn't read it, the second from a Bolivian who just said Mormons are racists (I'm not sure she read it, either), and a former poster here who said it was the most selfish, self-absorbed book he's ever read. Truth be told, I might have been worried a little if he had liked it. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Thank you for saying that. I'm pleased that ex-Mormons and active members alike have had good things to say about it. I've had 3 negative reviews: the first from someone who hadn't read it, the second from a Bolivian who just said Mormons are racists (I'm not sure she read it, either), and a former poster here who said it was the most selfish, self-absorbed book he's ever read. Truth be told, I might have been worried a little if he had liked it. 

Yeah, not sure where on your faith journey you were when you wrote it. It doesn’t come across as agenda pushing at all. If I had one word to describe it, I’d just say “authentic”. 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Yeah, not sure where on your faith journey you were when you wrote it. It doesn’t come across as agenda pushing at all. If I had one word to describe it, I’d just say “authentic”. 

I wrote it about 3 years after my crisis of faith. I tried really hard to write it from the perspective of the 19-year-old missionary I was without editorializing or "lessons learned." I think I succeeded pretty well. 

[Rain]

 

 

16 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

It is natural for ward members to ask as this is the age when people go on missions. So I would not fault the members.  He just needs to tell the leaders that he is not in a place right now to go on a mission.  Maybe he will later but right now its not in the cards or plans. If they continue he needs to just open up and tell them to stop.  They are not his parents or family and they should not involve themselves in the decision process.

It is natural, but what is natural is not always good.  I would prefer members ask "what are your plans now?" That relieves the pressure of missions.  In reality some are not ready for missions right out of high school and when the age change was announced President Monson recognized this.  Some may have scholarships that require them to attend a year or 2 before serving.  Some may need to work to earn the money.  Some may go spend time with a parent they have been separated from.  Some may go take care of a sick grandparent.  

It doesn't always have to be "do you have your papers in?"  Or when are you going on your mission?" But for many of these men and women that is often and the only thing they are asked.  And when they say they are not going or have plans to do something else first then there are expressions of disappointment.  

I had an interesting conversation with a friend during my son's senior year.  I told her that he was trying to decide when to go.  She said something about how you are supposed to go at 18.  I had to remind her that even when announcing the change that the prophet said that won't be the right timing for everyone.  I suspect from many conversations that there are quite a few that never caught that.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Rain

[Rain]

14 hours ago, Fether said:

Just to gage where you are at. Would you say not reading scriptures is a sin?

No.  There are too many people who can't read or that struggle to read or don't have the materials.  It is a help, not a requirement.  

[Rain]

13 hours ago, webbles said:

I have no idea.  I'm actually not entirely sure what constitutes a "service mission".  I know of several who were a service missionary but I also know people who did similar things but weren't service missionaries.

It really varies.  Sometimes by person.  And it is also changing.  In the about 5 years since I have been with the charity I am with we have seen quite a few changes and rules etc. Overall though they are called by the church and assigned an area (from what I have seen).  And by area I don't mean a ward or a stake.  Some of our missionaries areas are the whole state of AZ even though we have quite a few missions just in the Phoenix area.  Some of our missionaries arrive on their own.  Some are always together under a leader.  I know a few years ago some were even allowed to date (and no that wasn't just bending the rules). 

[CA Steve]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

Thank you for saying that. I'm pleased that ex-Mormons and active members alike have had good things to say about it. I've had 3 negative reviews: the first from someone who hadn't read it, the second from a Bolivian who just said Mormons are racists (I'm not sure she read it, either), and a former poster here who said it was the most selfish, self-absorbed book he's ever read. Truth be told, I might have been worried a little if he had liked it. 

Well, I liked it so you may want to get worried again.

I was amazed at the differences between your mission and mine, both in S.A. about the same time. I can only assume you were punished for being from the wrong ward. 😁

[jkwilliams]

Just now, CA Steve said:

Well, I liked it so you may want to get worried again.

I was amazed at the differences between your mission and mine, both in S.A. about the same time. I can only assume you were punished for being from the wrong ward. 😁

I don't know. Your ward had some pretty sketchy characters. 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

The  pressure for YM to serve is also a pressure on parents to get them to serve. It is quite common for a Latter-day Saint parent to judge their success as a parent by the choices their children make.  I would guess if you don't feel this you are the exception rather than the rule.

I think that’s pretty much the status quo for all parents, religious or not.

But that is different than cutting ties with your child because they didn’t do what you wanted them too as an adult. One is normal parent behavior and the other isn’t.

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, Fether said:

You completely missed the point. Every time you take the sacrament, you are resigning up to be a Latter Day Saint and obey God’s commandments. If you take the sacrament when you are 21 years old, you are covenanting your obey God, and God has declared all young men need to serve missions

You really are reaching hard to justify bad messaging and mind control behavior.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

15 hours ago, Fether said:

Just to gage where you are at. Would you say not reading scriptures is a sin?

There is an unending amount of duties and obligations that come with church membership. In the temple I covenanted to obey the law of consecration which the church describes as “dedicating our time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed us to building up Jesus Christ’s Church on the earth.” 
 

It’s an impossible standard that everyone falls short of on a daily basis. 

[Teancum]

19 hours ago, Danzo said:

I am not saying it is ok to sin. I am saying that every one of us is going to sin.  The plan of salvation saves us from our sins.  For some of us the sin may be not serving a mission for others of us it is being judgmental on internet forums. The good news (gospel) is that Christ has atoned for our sins and we can be forgiven on conditions of repentance.   A young man not serving a mission does not condemn them if they repent.  A young man serving a mission doesn't save them either. 

There is no need to repent of any sin for not serving a mission because it is not a sin.

[Chum]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

The  pressure for YM to serve is also a pressure on parents to get them to serve. It is quite common for a Latter-day Saint parent to judge their success as a parent by the choices their children make.  I would guess if you don't feel this you are the exception rather than the rule.

You aren't wrong but as far as failings might exist in this scenario, they're human ones.  I did the kids=self-esteem and live vicariously things. During the time my sons were transitioning to adults, I let it all go and eventually settled on meaningfully respecting their agency.

[Chum]

6 minutes ago, Teancum said:

There is no need to repent of any sin for not serving a mission because it is not a sin.

From a Christian perspective, the potentially sinful thing would be rejecting a divine instruction, one that you clearly knew you could+should follow.

[Chum]

50 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It’s an impossible standard that everyone falls short of on a daily basis. 

Whether something is sinful can be a rabbit hole. Worse, tying specific activities to sin is commonly seized-on by people who want to control others' actions. That whole scenario is extremely problematic.

What works for me is remembering that sin is generally associated with things that aren't good for us.

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

There is no need to repent of any sin for not serving a mission because it is not a sin.

It can be. If one is prompted by the lord to do something and they don't do it, it is sin.  Whether the prompting is to help out one's neighbor, serve a mission, attend church meetings, give money to the poor, etc.

Repentance is the idea that we can change and do better.  It is a joyous thing.  It is an opportunity to be embraced.  No one should ever feel any type of shame when they repent.  Only grateful for the opportunity to do so. 

[Fether]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

There is an unending amount of duties and obligations that come with church membership. In the temple I covenanted to obey the law of consecration which the church describes as “dedicating our time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed us to building up Jesus Christ’s Church on the earth.” 
 

It’s an impossible standard that everyone falls short of on a daily basis. 

Which we have repentance for

AGAIN. My concern is not with being perfect in all our duties. My concern is that people are refusing to acknowledge and admit out loud that God has commanded all young men to serve missions.

[Fether]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

You really are reaching hard to justify bad messaging and mind control behavior.

No, all I want is people to at least acknowledge that the church expects all young men to serve missions and that choosing not to is going against their duty as a priesthood leader.
 

If a young man chooses not to, they don’t need to be public ally shamed or coerced.

[Fether]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

No.  There are too many people who can't read or that struggle to read or don't have the materials.  It is a help, not a requirement.  

Your introducing exterior scenarios, but I’ll play along to your hyper specific requirements.

If a person who was baptized, in good standing, has a college education and is in completely good health chooses to not read scriptures week after week, is that a sin they are committing?

[Teancum]

21 hours ago, Fether said:

you can complain and disagree all you want, but let’s stop pretending this isnt a command from God. Or at the very least, admit out loud that you don’t think the Prophet speaks for God.

The "prophet" does not speak for god.  So there you have it.

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, Fether said:

Your introducing exterior scenarios, but I’ll play along to your hyper specific requirements.

If a person who was baptized, in good standing, has a college education and is in completely good health chooses to not read scriptures week after week, is that a sin they are committing?

Maybe it is and maybe it's not.  We don't have enough information to judge it either way.

[Fether]

11 minutes ago, Teancum said:

The "prophet" does not speak for god.  So there you have it.

It seems there is a lot of people on this thread that agree with you